Marines need more defensive capabilities.
Electr0
Join Date: 2011-10-31 Member: 130337Members
Join Date: 2011-10-31 Member: 130337Members
Aliens seem to have more ability to control the map, they also get more defensive structures and infestation slows marines and stops them building, marines get weak turrets and thats about it, the rest is up to the players, this makes keeping resources safe quite a difficult job and because aliens are faster they can return in no time after you kill them.
I think its time marines got something else to help them out, perhaps a new turret or defence of some kind, maybe an upgrade like electrify or anti alien/infestation stuff you can spray on the ground?
I think its time marines got something else to help them out, perhaps a new turret or defence of some kind, maybe an upgrade like electrify or anti alien/infestation stuff you can spray on the ground?
Comments
Marines already have the best defense of the two teams.
Marines already have the best defense of the two teams.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do you come to that conclusion?
Most games i've played marines have lost.
Aliens have whips with bombard and anti grenade, hydras, crags, infestation.
Marines have... turrets?
Most games i've played marines have lost.
Aliens have whips with bombard and anti grenade, hydras, crags, infestation.
Marines have... turrets?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And mines!
Marines need more offensive capabilities instead :)
Exosuits? :)
Marines have great defense, but the skill cap for map awareness is much higher on the marine side. Lots of new players that don't really know what is going on means a lot of poorly defended marine RTs. When people get better, you will see pub marines defending a lot better.
Besides, turrets and mines are very powerful if used properly anyway. The only ranged defense aliens have is hydras, and those are nearly useless right now if you don't want to spend more than 50 res on them.
Fact, I often build a second chair for the extra energy.
Also worthy of mentioning is the ability of the commander to drop health packs. This truly can turn the tide of a skirmish!
Also worthy of mentioning is the ability of the commander to drop health packs. This truly can turn the tide of a skirmish!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The trouble with mines, shields and health packs is they're not passive and so very hard to make good use of except in certain situation, we need better passive defence.
Commander Can drop
-Ammo
-Health packs
-Weapons
-Nano-Shield
Turrets
Mines
Phase Gate for traveling long distances instantly, making getting back to base much easier
Observatory grants
-"Pings" that detect near by aliens and displays them in real time in 3D
-Beacon that calls all marine players back to base
The point is, Marines have wonderful defenses, the only difference is they are majority controlled by the commander, so if your commander is bad, the chances are you wont be getting nice defenses (where as on alien you can create defenses with or without the commander). Marines are doing fantastic in the defense department
Most games i've played marines have lost.
Aliens have whips with bombard and anti grenade, hydras, crags, infestation.
Marines have... turrets?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In fairness the comparison is:
<ul><li>turrets, mines</li><li>whips, hydras</li></ul>
The other items are different, but equivalent:
<ul><li>crags + infestation</li><li>armory + power socket</li></ul>
<ul><li>turrets, mines</li><li>whips, hydras</li></ul>
The other items are different, but equivalent:
<ul><li>crags + infestation</li><li>armory + power socket</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't consider mines the same as a turret type structure, they're much more limited, even the armoury vs crag doesn't compare, basically aliens have a lot of passive defences, two turret structures and a passive area heal, marines have a turret, everything else they have to do manually and it doesn't last.
What they truly lack now is a way to use their res advantage late game. Exo suite will probably fix a big part of that problem.
How many times have you died to a single mine? Quite many I assume.
How many times have you died to a single hydra? Probably not very often.
And you get three mines for the price of one hydra.
I'd hardly call the whip a turret structure, the range is VERY limited. Bombard only does armor damage, so it's completely useless for defending against marines from a range unless they are stupid enough to lob grenades at it.
And again, you're completely forgetting that the teams have different needs for defense. Marines have guns to shoot defenses from far away, so aliens do need turret type defenses. Aliens are generally melee focused so static defenses like mines are fine. You can't give both teams mirrored defense capabilities without breaking the game.
i support telefragging with an audio cue to warn the alien 1 sec prior for IPs. just imagine the warm up sound for mines or something similar as the audio cue.
but for PG you will have to make it electrified or something, as theres no delay in teleporting. maybe make a visual notification that the fade must be "this far away" or else? idk..
what good is a PG for mobility if one alien life form (fade) is standing right in front of it swiping? its basically saying you MUST always use turrets to place PGs.. but the way the economics is set up current thats impossible if you wish to contend with the speed aliens put up their 2nd hive. this is especially true in organized matches. (how often do you see turrets in those?)
problem solved
Nano shields, turrets, mines.
but for PG you will have to make it electrified or something, as theres no delay in teleporting. maybe make a visual notification that the fade must be "this far away" or else? idk..
what good is a PG for mobility if one alien life form (fade) is standing right in front of it swiping? its basically saying you MUST always use turrets to place PGs.. but the way the economics is set up current thats impossible if you wish to contend with the speed aliens put up their 2nd hive. this is especially true in organized matches. (how often do you see turrets in those?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much. I've lost many forward PGs from one skulk or fade standing right in the middle of PG and killing all who phase through. Telefrag might be a bit harsh, so I could see something as simple as a physics push/stun (think like the stun effect from the marine rifle butt) or it just does X amount of damage for any alien standing directly in front/on top of a PG or IP.
But I don't think players getting stuck inside one another is a proper game mechanic, wouldn't you agree with me on that?
We need some kind of system to prevent getting stuck in other players on the other side of phase gates, be it marine or alien or even AI units.
But a "safe area" around the phase gate so fades or skulks can't camp an undefended gate? No. That is not needed.
If this is the case, you don't solve it by buffing marine defense. Turret and mine spam already prolongs marine losses to 3rd hive and even beyond. Infact you dont even need turrets and mines to stalemate a game against 3rd hive aliens for some time.
The reason marines are losing alot this build is because of fast, unpredictable skulk movement, not because of a lack of defense. Games are not fun or atleast not in the long term when you make one team more and more invulnerable.
<!--quoteo(post=1910675:date=Mar 7 2012, 09:08 AM:name=Dghelneshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dghelneshi @ Mar 7 2012, 09:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1910675"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We need some kind of system to prevent getting stuck in other players on the other side of phase gates, be it marine or alien or even AI units.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1. You also get stuck simply by crouching into phasegates as well lol =/. Presumably getting stuck in the phasegate model itself.
It is a fact though that marines have alot of active abilities, making their success entirely based on the commanders skill. Aliens commander mostly just builds, occasionally spamming umbra or cloak. It would be nice to see more active abilities for the alien commander, away from the hive, but most ideas seem to be rejected.
If there's a fade on either side of the phase gate, the marines can't get out. Which is something I don't think should be removed.
<!--quoteo(post=1910601:date=Mar 7 2012, 06:38 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Mar 7 2012, 06:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1910601"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I view the ease at which aliens can camp spawns/phasegates as the main problem with marine defenses. Implementing something like telefrag (or telepush) would help.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And Marines can even more easily camp egg spawns.
This could be fixed by the marines maintaining their momentum out of the phase gate (unless there's a fade standing there of course)
My usual trick for a phase in a contested area is to start shooting my assault rifle at a downward angle before I hit the phase gate. Waste a few rounds in your base, sure, but it's awfully funny to shred a skulk who thinks he's going to get a free snack before his second bite lands. It also helps to go through the gate in the wrong direction so that you come out the other side in an odd place.
Now, if we could launch grenades or somesuch through a phase gate, or if the nanoshield pushed aliens away from the gate far enough for a marine to blip through it (or the bubble at least protected him while he was right in the gate) we might see some more of that used.