Build 200 initial thoughts
Grissi
Join Date: 2003-08-28 Member: 20314Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
Join Date: 2003-08-28 Member: 20314Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">To early?</div>Good day everyone
Even though patch 200 just came out I think I just had to write some of my thoughts right away(even though I have not seen the changelog). I must admit I'm very surprised how patch 200 turned out. I'm more focused on mechanics and changes in the current build, don't want to talk about balance.
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First of I want to talk about the new catalyze(chrono boost?) ability. I admit I did only test this on a local server but with only 25 energy cost and the ability to use it on hives I could easily get hive up around min 4. This kinda removes all risk from getting a new hive. Fast hives are already the dominant strategy in the game and this will ability will help with that.
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Lerks have been made easymode. In my opinion I think spike damage were fine before with shotgun spikes as skill based ability to use. With these abilities it was risky for the lerk to kill marines since he had to go up close and he was more of a supportive type with gas.
In the new build you have spikes that do more damage(at least it feels like they do more damage), you can spike+gas marines down with relative ease. I think this has removed some depth from the lerk and made his playstyle less interesting.
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Fade can now be near invulnerable by holding shift and forward(shadow step ftw). There seems to be a really annoying delay added to the main blink but you can bypass it with shadow step. You still have unlimited energy to play with so fade gameplay wont change much, it will just be little more frustrating to play them.
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About bilebomb, I do think the lerk needed a 2nd hive ability but I don't see how bilebombs fits lerkbetter than the gorge. In my opinion bilbomb worked perfectly on the gorge. Please discuss that below.
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I noticed the new marine sprint, it was kinda funny how I could sprint away from skulks allowing others marines to easily kill them. I'm not sure why this was changed.
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Now I have not played patch 200 allot but these are few of my initial thoughts, would love to hear what others have to say about the current build. And I would like to see the changelog :)
Even though patch 200 just came out I think I just had to write some of my thoughts right away(even though I have not seen the changelog). I must admit I'm very surprised how patch 200 turned out. I'm more focused on mechanics and changes in the current build, don't want to talk about balance.
--
First of I want to talk about the new catalyze(chrono boost?) ability. I admit I did only test this on a local server but with only 25 energy cost and the ability to use it on hives I could easily get hive up around min 4. This kinda removes all risk from getting a new hive. Fast hives are already the dominant strategy in the game and this will ability will help with that.
--
Lerks have been made easymode. In my opinion I think spike damage were fine before with shotgun spikes as skill based ability to use. With these abilities it was risky for the lerk to kill marines since he had to go up close and he was more of a supportive type with gas.
In the new build you have spikes that do more damage(at least it feels like they do more damage), you can spike+gas marines down with relative ease. I think this has removed some depth from the lerk and made his playstyle less interesting.
--
Fade can now be near invulnerable by holding shift and forward(shadow step ftw). There seems to be a really annoying delay added to the main blink but you can bypass it with shadow step. You still have unlimited energy to play with so fade gameplay wont change much, it will just be little more frustrating to play them.
--
About bilebomb, I do think the lerk needed a 2nd hive ability but I don't see how bilebombs fits lerkbetter than the gorge. In my opinion bilbomb worked perfectly on the gorge. Please discuss that below.
--
I noticed the new marine sprint, it was kinda funny how I could sprint away from skulks allowing others marines to easily kill them. I'm not sure why this was changed.
--
Now I have not played patch 200 allot but these are few of my initial thoughts, would love to hear what others have to say about the current build. And I would like to see the changelog :)
Comments
Agreed it should not be possible on hives, or at least be a lot more expensive. (I can see some uses for it lategame, but it shouldn't aid in quickly putting up a second hive)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lerks have been made easymode.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you're a bit too fast on the ball on this one, these kind of changes need to be given some time for proper evaluation. And if anything, to me it sounds like they've made the lerk more viable, which is a good thing.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fade can now be near invulnerable by holding shift and forward(shadow step ftw). There seems to be a really annoying delay added to the main blink but you can bypass it with shadow step. You still have unlimited energy to play with so fade gameplay wont change much, it will just be little more frustrating to play them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't understand why shadowstep doesn't at least cost a little bit of energy.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->About bilebomb, I do think the lerk needed a 2nd hive ability but I don't see how bilebombs fits lerkbetter than the gorge. In my opinion bilbomb worked perfectly on the gorge. Please discuss that below.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Too soon to call imo, though I definitely feel the gorge is now lacking something. (Really doubt goo wall will make up for taking bile bomb away)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I noticed the new marine sprint, it was kinda funny how I could sprint away from skulks allowing others marines to easily kill them. I'm not sure why this was changed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Personally I like the new sprint, the issue though seems to be with skulk movement being significantly slower, or at least feeling more sluggish. (which combined with the sprint change is essentially a double nerf to skulks)
Aside from that, my biggest problem atm is the huge performance drops
Tried more ns games, it was so easy to keep at least 3 marines inside marine base with lerk bilebomb, I just kept attacking their base and kept a save distance, they were unable to kill me with care + regen. Of course retreated when I was taking damage and then came back again(In the last game I played they had 2 fair aimers, even so a single lmg isn't enough and shotguns have a hard time picking out lerk from range).
I did the same with fade, kept blinking for 6 minutes inside their base and I just lost around 60 armor(with cara/regen), then we ended the game. Even with 6 marines inside base it was easy to stay bliking, you can also stay up in the air.
I also felt the skulks to be very restrictive in this build, even though they would get some of their speed back the marines would still be able to kite a bit with the current sprint. But we will see how it works out.
About the lerk, it was already viable before and was really strong with chamber upgrades. It just needed a 2nd hive ability to stay viable throughout the game.
Lerk - Spike damage wasn't increased, I think it was the fix on Lerk flight that makes it feel easier. I think Spore was changed a bit, where before Marines only took damage if their head was in the cloud, but now that clouds drift to the ground, perhaps just being in a cloud will deal damage?
Fade - Shadow Step is a bit silly given how frequent it can be used (even though distance is shortened the more you use it). In time I believe a good middle ground can be found.
Bile Bomb - IMO, this version of BB is pretty good, as long as the damage over time stacks on a per Lerk basis. I wouldn't mind it being given back to Gorge though, since it will no longer do instant insane damage.
Marine Sprint - Feels good to be fast, I hope they tweak the Skulk's wall-jump and Leap to allow them to catch Marines while running away.
lol if this is true. Thats like 3-4 minutes earlier than if you were specifically going fast hive in previous builds. Didn't UWE just put up a new design task to investigate why games are being decided so early 5-10 minutes? Or do you mean it takes 4 minutes to build a hive and not that it completes at the 4 minute game time mark? o.0
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I noticed the new marine sprint, it was kinda funny how I could sprint away from skulks allowing others marines to easily kill them. I'm not sure why this was changed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think its actually a charge up ability now. So like you go from 5 speed to 8 or something over a certain ammount of time(which is higher than skulk). I personally don't like the feel of it as it charges up a bit slow and as you mention you end up running faster than a skulk. Seems a bit on the unresponsive side as well as a bit cheap lol.