Id like to see the researchable upgrades for jetpacks in the game, that might make jetpacks worth it
i think the res cost of a proto lab should be lowered and the cost of a robotics factory be increased a bit to ballence it out
right now it seems like people will never bother with jetpacks when they can just drop arcs and win the game within 5-7 mins before a 2nd hive is even up -
Fades can still be 2 shot by shotguns, it probably boils down to terrible hit reg and fps/server lag. Though with the old shotgun it was actually easier to kill them, now it seems worse.
2 shots with 20 res ranged weapons (which can also picked up after a death) vs 2 or 3 swipes with a 50 pres melee alien... :P
Though I don't mind having jetpacks as some sort of "soft" counter against them, but in that case the protolab should be cheaper (20 RES or so), jetpacks themselves could stay at 35 (or maybe 30RES), PRES cost still 20 :P
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1915861:date=Mar 21 2012, 04:15 AM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Mar 21 2012, 04:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915861"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because of the delay. It should not be that way. Fades should be able to combat jetpackers in mid-air.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you get rid of the delay, then you return to the problem of the fades getting a free swipe on non-JP marines before they can react. I'm not opposed to keeping the current fade v JP combat as is and decreasing the JP research/prereq cost so its a viable fade counter.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1916005:date=Mar 21 2012, 09:04 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Mar 21 2012, 09:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916005"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you get rid of the delay, then you return to the problem of the fades getting a free swipe on non-JP marines before they can react. I'm not opposed to keeping the current fade v JP combat as is and decreasing the JP research/prereq cost so its a viable fade counter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The "free swipe" was a problem when the fade didn't have the momentum. It is not a problem anymore. If you try to get a "free swipe" now(blinking RIGHT next to marines, fully invulnerable) you very likely overshoot your target. The current fade vs JP combat is pretty bad, as the fade have very little means of fighting the jetpacks in mid-air, because of the delay. That needs to be adressed.
<!--quoteo(post=1916023:date=Mar 22 2012, 09:53 AM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Mar 22 2012, 09:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916023"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The "free swipe" was a problem when the fade didn't have the momentum. It is not a problem anymore. If you try to get a "free swipe" now(blinking RIGHT next to marines, fully invulnerable) you very likely overshoot your target. The current fade vs JP combat is pretty bad, as the fade have very little means of fighting the jetpacks in mid-air, because of the delay. That needs to be adressed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or could require fades to be more skilled. As you say now they have momentum. Fades would have learn to aim in front of the JP marines flight path to intercept them. That would be bloody hard, so......yer about time. But this misses the fact that if a JP marine does get air borne with no damage, the fade doesn't have to stick around. He can (and should) teleport around the corner and wait for the JP to run out of fuel which it does easily. All he has to do is wait. He has options, marines don't.
I agree they should still be able to get 1 swipe (JP launch time is not that great anyway) before a marine is well clear of their hit range, but only 1 at max. That means that if a fade wanted to kill a JP marine quickly, he would have to do a pro mid air kill shot, which SHOULD be very hard to do. Otherwise what options do marines really have? Fades can choose their battles.
<!--quoteo(post=1916005:date=Mar 22 2012, 09:04 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Mar 22 2012, 09:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916005"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you get rid of the delay, then you return to the problem of the fades getting a free swipe on non-JP marines before they can react. I'm not opposed to keeping the current fade v JP combat as is and decreasing the JP research/prereq cost so its a viable fade counter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1915970:date=Mar 21 2012, 10:07 AM:name=Omega_K2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Omega_K2 @ Mar 21 2012, 10:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915970"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fades can still be 2 shot by shotguns, it probably boils down to terrible hit reg and fps/server lag.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> NOPE. allow me to demonstrate. vanilla marine w/ shotgun vs. vanilla fade with AND without carapace = 3 hit requirement. (tried it 5 times in a row, 100%)
<!--quoteo(post=1916286:date=Mar 22 2012, 09:07 AM:name=Ironman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ironman @ Mar 22 2012, 09:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916286"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People who complain about the Fade, just suck, or are not playing in a team setting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps you are playing on servers with far more coordinated teams that I am, but good Fades often seem almost unstoppable. I think a large part of it is due to the game's sketchy performance in fights. A fade who warps in, slashes a couple times, then warps out is nearly impossible to kill because the action is so chaotic and choppy.
I think the fade in 198 was rather balanced. 199 and 200 gave the fade a new, energy free charge (shadow step). Energy is typically the primary limiting factor for fades in combat. So when you give them a free 10 meter dash with no tradeoff, it kind of imbalances them. At the same time, shotgun (the primary weapon to kill fades) was nerfed to take 3 shots instead of 2 against them.
But frenzy is also a reason why fades have so much staying power in combat. When frenzy is removed, fades will be much more hit and run. You'll be able to push them out of an area with only losing a marine at most and they'll have to go back to heal. They won't be able to chain kills and stay full health.
<!--quoteo(post=1916298:date=Mar 22 2012, 09:32 AM:name=Ironman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ironman @ Mar 22 2012, 09:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916298"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fade Costs 50res plus upgrades, yeah hes gonna be hard to kill and should be.
what a waste of res if anyone can kill it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely, they should be hard to kill. I think the general complaint is that fighting fades isn't so much challenging (fun!) as it is frustrating (not fun!).
Like a bunch of other people have mentioned, I don't think fade itself is overpowered. Frenzy is the problem here, once that is removed (UWE said that it's going to be removed, right?) everything should be fine.
Comments
i think the res cost of a proto lab should be lowered and the cost of a robotics factory be increased a bit to ballence it out
right now it seems like people will never bother with jetpacks when they can just drop arcs and win the game within 5-7 mins before a 2nd hive is even up -
-(and this is coming from a 90% marine player)
2 shots with 20 res ranged weapons (which can also picked up after a death) vs 2 or 3 swipes with a 50 pres melee alien... :P
Though I don't mind having jetpacks as some sort of "soft" counter against them, but in that case the protolab should be cheaper (20 RES or so), jetpacks themselves could stay at 35 (or maybe 30RES), PRES cost still 20 :P
Fades should be able to combat jetpackers in mid-air.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you get rid of the delay, then you return to the problem of the fades getting a free swipe on non-JP marines before they can react. I'm not opposed to keeping the current fade v JP combat as is and decreasing the JP research/prereq cost so its a viable fade counter.
The "free swipe" was a problem when the fade didn't have the momentum.
It is not a problem anymore.
If you try to get a "free swipe" now(blinking RIGHT next to marines, fully invulnerable) you very likely overshoot your target.
The current fade vs JP combat is pretty bad, as the fade have very little means of fighting the jetpacks in mid-air, because of the delay.
That needs to be adressed.
It is not a problem anymore.
If you try to get a "free swipe" now(blinking RIGHT next to marines, fully invulnerable) you very likely overshoot your target.
The current fade vs JP combat is pretty bad, as the fade have very little means of fighting the jetpacks in mid-air, because of the delay.
That needs to be adressed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or could require fades to be more skilled. As you say now they have momentum. Fades would have learn to aim in front of the JP marines flight path to intercept them. That would be bloody hard, so......yer about time.
But this misses the fact that if a JP marine does get air borne with no damage, the fade doesn't have to stick around. He can (and should) teleport around the corner and wait for the JP to run out of fuel which it does easily. All he has to do is wait. He has options, marines don't.
I agree they should still be able to get 1 swipe (JP launch time is not that great anyway) before a marine is well clear of their hit range, but only 1 at max. That means that if a fade wanted to kill a JP marine quickly, he would have to do a pro mid air kill shot, which SHOULD be very hard to do. Otherwise what options do marines really have? Fades can choose their battles.
^^
NOPE.
allow me to demonstrate. vanilla marine w/ shotgun vs. vanilla fade with AND without carapace = 3 hit requirement. (tried it 5 times in a row, 100%)
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/oAErf.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/0bhzQ.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/OR9nL.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Dont expect to 1on1 a fade enless you have some skills.
Use your brains and some strategy as well as using your surroundings to your advantage.
Example, LMG is on the ground, you dance while unloading your LMG, drop gun, pickup 2nd LMG
boom, fade owned.
1 example of many.
Perhaps you are playing on servers with far more coordinated teams that I am, but good Fades often seem almost unstoppable. I think a large part of it is due to the game's sketchy performance in fights. A fade who warps in, slashes a couple times, then warps out is nearly impossible to kill because the action is so chaotic and choppy.
what a waste of res if anyone can kill it.
But frenzy is also a reason why fades have so much staying power in combat. When frenzy is removed, fades will be much more hit and run. You'll be able to push them out of an area with only losing a marine at most and they'll have to go back to heal. They won't be able to chain kills and stay full health.
what a waste of res if anyone can kill it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely, they should be hard to kill. I think the general complaint is that fighting fades isn't so much challenging (fun!) as it is frustrating (not fun!).