low skulk uptake of alien upgrades

MelatoninMelatonin Babbler Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14551Members, Constellation
in Ideas and Suggestions
<div class="IPBDescription">wherein upgrades are free?</div>anyone else not use upgrades as a skulk because you are saving for higher life forms?

could there be some kind of free upgrade scheme for skulks, or... perhaps even all life forms?

are there alternatives to free upgrades that might encourage skulks to diversify by actually using the growing number of upgrades without feeling ripped off?
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Comments

  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    I basically never take upgrades as skulk, whereas I almost always did in ns1. I'm not entirely sure what the reason is, but I think there is some subconscious logic going on.
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  • WebbieWebbie Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24769Members
    It would be interesting to cheapen the life forms and make the cost of upgrades proportional to that of the life form.

    e.g.:
    Skulk free/1
    Gorge 5/2
    Lerk 15/5
    Fade 30/10
    Onos 55/15
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  • RyneRyne Join Date: 2012-02-25 Member: 147408Members, NS2 Map Tester
    <!--quoteo(post=1915640:date=Mar 20 2012, 04:41 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Mar 20 2012, 04:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915640"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I basically never take upgrades as skulk, whereas I almost always did in ns1. I'm not entirely sure what the reason is, but I think there is some subconscious logic going on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Exaclty the same. In NS1 I would actually do all 3 upgrades if available. NS2 I don't feel any actually give me a huge advantage as skulk, at least not enough of one to warrant spending the time.
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  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Members
    Hmm, it would be nice if evolutions are pay once, keep after death, and choosing different ones would cost you the PRes required. However, Marines should be able to kill specialized Shells/Veils/Spurs to force alien players to pay again for the lost evolutions.
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  • deaglecrazydeaglecrazy Join Date: 2010-07-27 Member: 73106Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1915694:date=Mar 21 2012, 02:38 AM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Mar 21 2012, 02:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm, it would be nice if evolutions are pay once, keep after death, and choosing different ones would cost you the PRes required. However, Marines should be able to kill specialized Shells/Veils/Spurs to force alien players to pay again for the lost evolutions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Agreed, having the marine commander upgrade once for armor or weapons which every marine gets, seems unfair when an alien is to use 2 resources for carpace or whatever they use every time they die. Buuut if there was some sort of focus like there was for ns1, then I will DEF be buying this every time I die :D
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  • _Necro__Necro_ Join Date: 2011-02-15 Member: 81895Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I didn't buy upgrades for skulk too. The time and res isn't worth the effect.
    But I like the suggestions in this thread. The devs should try some of them.
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  • FroztyFrozty SWEDEN Join Date: 2012-01-22 Member: 141596Members
    Would be nice if a player can be a "pro" as the skulk and not just "roam" around until u get Onos/Fade.
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  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    Actually I think I know the reason I don't take upgrades as skulk at the moment.

    In NS1 I think a player had far more control over the skulks movement. I mean I was pretty good with the skulk in NS1, no random bites all over the place, no tripping and falling while trying to gain speed. As a skulk in NS1, you could, mid combat, realise things were going badly, and simply leave. Go back and heal, fight another day.

    In NS2 there seems to be very little control, and attacking marines feels like utter chaos. This may simply be due to the poor state of performance pre optimisation, or maybe its got to do with the massive loss of movement control from ns1->ns2. Either way, it feels like at any time I can be instantly killed, requiring me to redo all my upgrades.
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  • GrissiGrissi Join Date: 2003-08-28 Member: 20314Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    I don't get upgrades on skulks because its simply way better to save up for adv lifeforms. If you spent 2 res on a upgrade for skulk you really need to make it pay off.

    I would like to see upgrade be free again. Chambers would then have bigger impact on the early game.
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  • FlounderFlounder Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31656Members
    edited March 2012
    IN NS1 YOU TOOK SKULK UPGRADES BECAUSE THEY WERE FREE. ALL UPGRADES WERE FREE.

    I really can't tell if people are being sarcastic in this thread or they are just being dense. I've decided to play it safe.

    Anyway, make upgrades free. If players want to swap upgrades, make it cost 2 res. Easy easy easy.
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  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1915901:date=Mar 21 2012, 04:39 PM:name=Flounder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flounder @ Mar 21 2012, 04:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->IN NS1 YOU TOOK SKULK UPGRADES BECAUSE THEY WERE FREE. ALL UPGRADES WERE FREE.

    I really can't tell if people are being sarcastic in this thread or they are just dense. I decided to play it safe.

    Anyway, make upgrades free. If players want to swap upgrades, make it cost 2 res. Easy easy easy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Were upgrades always free though? I distinctly remember a time when they cost 2 res as they do now in NS2, but maybe I'm just imaging that.
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  • FlounderFlounder Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31656Members
    edited March 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1915904:date=Mar 21 2012, 10:45 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Mar 21 2012, 10:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1915904"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Were upgrades always free though? I distinctly remember a time when they cost 2 res as they do now in NS2, but maybe I'm just imaging that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    They did cost 2 res for a long time, but after years of playtesting they realized it was better if they were free. It significantly altered the game, since now each of the 3 upgrade chambers were viable* and everyone, pubbers and scrimmers alike, lauded the change.

    * Prior to free upgrades, the chambers chosen were always done with the fade in mind, since no one else bothered to get upgrades. Most fades wanted carapace, so it was DC start only for years. After free upgrades, it was more common to see MC first, for celerity and silence skulks. Or sensory first, for cloaked everything. It made the game much more fluid and more fun.
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  • FloodinatorFloodinator [HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    There are some situations where I thought cara and frenzy would have been good, then i take it and die in some secs losing my res.

    Especially now with no RFK. If RFK would be still in I would upgrade my skulk, because I can gain my res back with a kill. Now when aliens have 3 RTs I need to survive 40s to get my 4 res back and that I long for a agressive skulk.
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  • rantologyrantology Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    I only upgrade my skulk if I don't plan on lerking to help get the 2nd hive going (so if I'm saving for fade, really). If I am lerking I don't bother with skulk upgrades at all so that when/if I lose my lerk I can go fade or lerk again asap. It usually works out pretty well... though with the coming change unlinking life-forms from hives I think like Flounder said, Carapace shell is going to be staple and it might take a lot of the variety from early game. Armor is just waaaay too good.
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  • deaglecrazydeaglecrazy Join Date: 2010-07-27 Member: 73106Members
    I also wish they had some sort of upgrade that would increase the max speed of each alien, if I could have that, silence and focus as a skulk I'd feel a bit more useful
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  • AnticeptAnticept Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58875Members, Constellation
    Marines get free armor and weapon upgrades once researched. Why the aliens don't, I don't know.

    I also believe it would be easier to balance the game by making the upgrades free. Non carapaced skulks are a lot easier to take down than carapaced ones. Stray shot from shotty = uncarapaced skulk death. Need a direct hit with carapace.

    Of course, there is a bit of a good reason why upgrades for aliens cost res: Cause the damn marines can't use teamres to drop weapons for them.
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  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I occasionally take Carapace if the com goes for crag hive first, it does give you some advantage at early game.
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    This is why upgrades should be free.
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  • RyneRyne Join Date: 2012-02-25 Member: 147408Members, NS2 Map Tester
    I vote for an initial cost (i.e. 2 to buy carapace) and then you get it every spawn for free, until you want to change it at which time you pay 2 more.
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  • RanakastraszRanakastrasz Join Date: 2012-02-26 Member: 147512Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1916123:date=Mar 21 2012, 09:03 PM:name=Ryne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryne @ Mar 21 2012, 09:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1916123"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I vote for an initial cost (i.e. 2 to buy carapace) and then you get it every spawn for free, until you want to change it at which time you pay 2 more.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This, except bind it to lifeform type, so you can have a different setup if needed (will cost more ofc)

    So, setup one for skulk, then when you go fade, you have to buy a second set, but it will remain each time you fade.
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  • puzlpuzl The Old Firm Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
    Alien ugprades are free in NS1 since 3.0 and should be free in NS2 for obvious reasons. Skulks are supposed to be expendable.
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  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Free alien upgrades sounds like a great idea. Aliens will have more P.res to switch lifeforms, and keep Natural Selection 2 closer to it name.
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