Cost / Utility of Phase Gates
eh?
Join Date: 2012-03-03 Member: 147997Members
Join Date: 2012-03-03 Member: 147997Members
I was just curious how many other people feel phase gates provide far less utility now then they once did in NS1 due to the following factors:
-Ease of phase-camping due to such a small, and abusable spawn location.
-The fact that phases only have 2, known to the aliens, outward facing directions.
-Lack of telefrag to combat purposely getting yourself stuck in marine hitboxes for camping purposes.
Seems like if you sacrificed the admittedly cool aesthetic part about phase gates and reverted back to something more omnidirectional it would solve a lot of these problems. Otherwise maybe just make them cheaper as an investment because there is a pretty big risk / reward ratio on phasegates at the moment. It's almost always a better strategy after you die defending a phase gate to just run there from base just in case a spawn camp is on the verge of starting.
-Ease of phase-camping due to such a small, and abusable spawn location.
-The fact that phases only have 2, known to the aliens, outward facing directions.
-Lack of telefrag to combat purposely getting yourself stuck in marine hitboxes for camping purposes.
Seems like if you sacrificed the admittedly cool aesthetic part about phase gates and reverted back to something more omnidirectional it would solve a lot of these problems. Otherwise maybe just make them cheaper as an investment because there is a pretty big risk / reward ratio on phasegates at the moment. It's almost always a better strategy after you die defending a phase gate to just run there from base just in case a spawn camp is on the verge of starting.
Comments
Similarly, if proper 'Portal' style gates were implemented, you could send a grenade or two ahead of you to keep those pesky aliens at bay... okay, that'd probably be open to massive abuse.
I don't see the need to make phase gates any more powerful than they already are, though, but it'd be nice if they were a bit more intuitive.
With the time to get out fades at about 5 minutes, you don't have much res to just lose without a gain.
This may change when frenzy is removed, right now you need armor 2 by the time aliens get fades or its a long and hard walk up the hill.
Yeah, the spinning or charging up should do some 'warning damage'(small damage to ward off smaller lifeforms but an onos can ignore it) and the big damage would occur at the time when they spawn or phase through if they happen to be in the way, like a telefrag.
Instead I would suggest some kind of force, pushing nearby aliens away from the phase gate.
That way they can't sit in the middle of the phase gate and bodyblock(and annihilate) everything that comes through.
The force should only push aliens out of the blue area, they should still be able to attack the phase gate with melee attacks.
Same could be applied to IPs.
Perhaps like portal you should be able to see through the phase, and even shoot through it. That way if a fade or skulk is camping the doorway, you can just shoot at him, forcing the skulk/fade to stand at the side, which would at least allow you to walk through without instant death. You'll still probably get jumped when crossing, but if a group goes through, there's less of a chance of being basically "stuck" inside aliens and dead due to blocking.
Or another option would be when someone comes through, if you're in the path of them when they warp in, the force of it knocks you back like a much tamer version of an onos hit without the stun.
I can see it now, plop a ninja phasegate near a hive and fire a barrage of grenades from the safety of your base. Would be hilarious to see the grenade whipped back into the phase gate and hit the marine. That sounds awesome now.
Instead I would suggest some kind of force, pushing nearby aliens away from the phase gate.
That way they can't sit in the middle of the phase gate and bodyblock(and annihilate) everything that comes through.
The force should only push aliens out of the blue area, they should still be able to attack the phase gate with melee attacks.
Same could be applied to IPs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. Theres nothing really wrong with phasegates other than this buggy issue of bodyblocking. Camping phasegates on the other hand (not blocking) is not only legit but easily handled with mines and pg medspamming, the same as in ns1. Infact, because it only has two openings, it is vastly easier to mine to protect against camping.
Phasegates are powerful and very much well worth their cost. Over the course of a game, they save many many many aggregate minutes of travel time. Aggressive or bad pg placement carries a high risk and is punishable. This is good.
If your finding your phasegates dying or being camped alot, i would suggest thinking more about where you place them.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that if you can't be bothered to defend the other end of your phasegate, you do deserve to get chewed going through it. After "researching" the phase tech for 30 (15 for research, 15 to build the one in your base), the receiving end of a phasegate is only 15 res. If you can't be bothered to put it in a spot where your marines can cover it, or at least drop a couple of mines and maybe some turrets to cover it, that's 15 res you didn't spend very well if it just turns into an expensive meatgrinder.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that if you can't be bothered to defend the other end of your phasegate, you do deserve to get chewed going through it. After "researching" the phase tech for 30 (15 for research, 15 to build the one in your base), the receiving end of a phasegate is only 15 res. If you can't be bothered to put it in a spot where your marines can cover it, or at least drop a couple of mines and maybe some turrets to cover it, that's 15 res you didn't spend very well if it just turns into an expensive meatgrinder.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
/agree pretty much
edit: moved main post to the other thread.
It doesn't prevent camping ... but i understand the camping.
As far as the multiple phase gates...I always though they should be paired and color coded.
Yes you would have to build more ....but it would be more obvious where you were going.
How about - when they finally introduce being able to 'see' what is on the other side of the gate, you can shoot through it to the other side.
Not sure how hard it would be to implement but would force aliens to attack the rear of the gate, rather than the side you exit from.
Imagine dropping a gate next to a hive, and spamming GLs through it.
Cool huh?
How about - when they finally introduce being able to 'see' what is on the other side of the gate, you can shoot through it to the other side.
Not sure how hard it would be to implement but would force aliens to attack the rear of the gate, rather than the side you exit from.
Imagine dropping a gate next to a hive, and spamming GLs through it.
Cool huh?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you scroll up this thread you'll read exact both suggestions several times :P
Just remember though guys, if you can see through a phase gate then both sides will lead to the same exit. So you will never see the rear side of the portal on the other side.
This is good, because aliens can spam the back of the portal but not the front. It gives marines a fighting chance, but at the same time, not.
2) Admit you got owned and carry on
3) use mines, marines, turrets to defense phase gates
Give the com the ability to turn off that phase gate. Problem solved. Then I wouldn't need to yell at people if there is a meat grinder.
Does anyone remember when aliens could use phases in NS1? everytime marines built them it would pretty much end the game for them, a back door into spawn! I dont think it lasted long befor it got patched out, but fun though!
I would rather have phase gates and armor1
2) Admit you got owned and carry on
3) use mines, marines, turrets to defense phase gates<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you are ignoring major points.
how many marines do you sacrifice to stay in that room to defend that PG instead of fighting on the frontlines? (neglecting the impractical, boring nature of this gameplay) keeping in mind, that aliens arent even required to build, so they are always on the front lines, FAST.
"getting owned" is merely a singular alien standing in the way of the PG? so 45 tres to get that PG there, with a potential 25 pres marine, both getting eaten by a singular 0 pres lifeform? thats broken and you know it. especially when said device is the sole counter to alien mobility which leads to map control. read: winning.
mines are instantly nullified by cheap pres cysts. thats a single mouse click from alien comm, and there goes your precious defense, and therefore potentially an infinite amount of Pres spent on mines.
turret farms are not economically viable to defend your progressing frontlines. go ahead and try this tactic in a competitive setting and you will see what we mean. 45 tres to make said PG, and then another 45 tres for 3 turrets. thats 90 team resources for one PG?? (believe it or not these numbers have actually lowered in recent patches)
they have garnered the nickname of "Meat grinders" for a reason. dismissing these flaws with claims of superiority such as "they deserve to.." only demonstrates that you aren't seeing the whole picture/ignoring major points. i suggest you comm for marines in a competitive setting and attempt your suggestions there, as currently the only semi working strat that exists is: nanoshield multiple marines with shotguns before they run and jump through shoting wildly. sometimes they get stuck and its meatgrinder ftw, sometimes ONE gets through and the aliens break away to get him - leaving the PG open just enough for some to slip through.
<b>such a vital piece required for winning for this team is so easily nullified</b> - it needs to be addressed. i personally recommend an automatic rifle butt throwing an alien back 10 ft every time a marine comes through while they are touching the structure. marines need to be able to CONTEST the PG, at the very least - then you can say things like "Deserve to lose it" etc..
Exos won't be able to use phase gates. I really don't see why anyone would want to spend 45 team res on something so easily destroyed verses something more useful.
Exos will be required to fight back onos and having an 8 minute deadline to get ready gives you no room to waste team res at all.
how many marines do you sacrifice to stay in that room to defend that PG instead of fighting on the frontlines? (neglecting the impractical, boring nature of this gameplay) keeping in mind, that aliens arent even required to build, so they are always on the front lines, FAST.
"getting owned" is merely a singular alien standing in the way of the PG? so 45 tres to get that PG there, with a potential 25 pres marine, both getting eaten by a singular 0 pres lifeform? thats broken and you know it. especially when said device is the sole counter to alien mobility which leads to map control. read: winning.
mines are instantly nullified by cheap pres cysts. thats a single mouse click from alien comm, and there goes your precious defense, and therefore potentially an infinite amount of Pres spent on mines.
turret farms are not economically viable to defend your progressing frontlines. go ahead and try this tactic in a competitive setting and you will see what we mean. 45 tres to make said PG, and then another 45 tres for 3 turrets. thats 90 team resources for one PG?? (believe it or not these numbers have actually lowered in recent patches)
they have garnered the nickname of "Meat grinders" for a reason. dismissing these flaws with claims of superiority such as "they deserve to.." only demonstrates that you aren't seeing the whole picture/ignoring major points. i suggest you comm for marines in a competitive setting and attempt your suggestions there, as currently the only semi working strat that exists is: nanoshield multiple marines with shotguns before they run and jump through shoting wildly. sometimes they get stuck and its meatgrinder ftw, sometimes ONE gets through and the aliens break away to get him - leaving the PG open just enough for some to slip through.
<b>such a vital piece required for winning for this team is so easily nullified</b> - it needs to be addressed. i personally recommend an automatic rifle butt throwing an alien back 10 ft every time a marine comes through while they are touching the structure. marines need to be able to CONTEST the PG, at the very least - then you can say things like "Deserve to lose it" etc..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yielding to the idea of an attacked PG as a point of contention, I'd prefer something much less silly than a push back. Ten feet? Really? How about just make marines slide off the lifeform so they can take a hit but keep running. This would allow a squad of marines to run out of the portal and have a fighting chance instead of lol fade.
Nano shielding the phase gate should also affect a player in the middle of the nano shield bubble they would have a chance to pick off 1 or 2 aliens biting the phase gate without dying instantly.
As long as the player doesnt leave the safety of the nano bubble they should be protected by it.
as long as the area which is nano shielded is CLEAR of aliens, this idea works - the only issues are that walking through the phasegate makes it easy to simply keep walking past this line without meaning to - as well as the lack of intuitiveness; nano shield never blocks alien movement, so why now? will this change every other nanoshield in the game?
i think a temporary ability to NOT collide with anything plus a very temp nanoshield (both ~ 2 seconds) would allow the marine(s) to walk through as intended, and able to fire with an option of only being able to fire as soon as the effect wears off? (considering the delay which usually gives those aliens that free swipe, that 2 sec might need adjustment)
as long as the area which is nano shielded is CLEAR of aliens, this idea works - the only issues are that walking through the phasegate makes it easy to simply keep walking past this line without meaning to - as well as the lack of intuitiveness; nano shield never blocks alien movement, so why now? will this change every other nanoshield in the game?
i think a temporary ability to NOT collide with anything plus a very temp nanoshield (both ~ 2 seconds) would allow the marine(s) to walk through as intended, and able to fire with an option of only being able to fire as soon as the effect wears off? (considering the delay which usually gives those aliens that free swipe, that 2 sec might need adjustment)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This also means that marines don't have to defend phasegates because they can have one guy teleport through and defend everything.
If you lose control of the exit, the marines should have to earn control of it back. They shouldn't be given constant "get out of jail free" cards.
If you don't want to lose control of your exit to 1 skulk or fade, build some turrets. If you're rushing phasegate then you have to be prepared to have a weak phase gate.
And being able to select 'Primary portal' would be logical. Meaning, a spawnpoint or base gate could re-negotiate where it's initial delivery would be.
eg;
Select the phase-gate at base as 'gate-S'
Select the phase-gate at forward position as 'gate-A'
The other PG's would simply rotate down their priority.
::facepalm::
you.. are.. ignoring.. major.. points.. that i already covered on this exact page already.
please read it first. namely the section on economical practicality of doing what you just suggested.
you.. are.. ignoring.. major.. points.. that i already covered on this exact page already.
please read it first. namely the section on economical practicality of doing what you just suggested.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've read everything.
You want to build just a phasegate and expect it to be strong. That shouldn't happen.