Exo's can't phase?
thefonz
Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105847Members
<div class="IPBDescription">NS2 high level design</div>So reading through the high level design ( <a href="http://t.co/IVvzQav2" target="_blank">http://t.co/IVvzQav2</a> ) under the tradeoff's section I saw that apparently exo's wont be able to phase. I know I'm getting ahead of myself here since exos aren't in yet but I gotta ask a few questions.
Firstly, how the heck are exo's going to get around the map at a decent pace? NS1 heavies were very slow, PG's were the best way to get around with them. Will the new exo be faster? I doesn't seem right for exos to be as fast, or faster, than regular marines or JP marines. Since marines will be getting exos from the prototype lab, likely located in the main marine base, are marines really expected to trudge around the whole map if the want exos?
What about the possibility of a global PG upgrade for a significant Tres cost that makes the PGs big enough for exos? Initially I was think of upgrading individual PGs for exos, but that is way to problematic and confusing in terms of how PGs work in a 'circle'. You'd end up with two different circles and a lot of confused marines.
I've got plenty of faith in UWE. Normally I'd sit back and wait a few builds to check it out first. But if exos are like NS1 heavies in terms of speed AND can't phase like heavies could, is there some plan to give them a bit more mobility?
Firstly, how the heck are exo's going to get around the map at a decent pace? NS1 heavies were very slow, PG's were the best way to get around with them. Will the new exo be faster? I doesn't seem right for exos to be as fast, or faster, than regular marines or JP marines. Since marines will be getting exos from the prototype lab, likely located in the main marine base, are marines really expected to trudge around the whole map if the want exos?
What about the possibility of a global PG upgrade for a significant Tres cost that makes the PGs big enough for exos? Initially I was think of upgrading individual PGs for exos, but that is way to problematic and confusing in terms of how PGs work in a 'circle'. You'd end up with two different circles and a lot of confused marines.
I've got plenty of faith in UWE. Normally I'd sit back and wait a few builds to check it out first. But if exos are like NS1 heavies in terms of speed AND can't phase like heavies could, is there some plan to give them a bit more mobility?
Comments
That said, I also would like to see an answer to this, cuz if I have to walk accross the whole of mineshaft at the same speed of the old heavies, I'll never buy an exo unless I'm escorting arcs solo.
This could be interesting because forward proto laps may be viable(depending on their cost). So marines could use the pg and then get exo after they go through, however there is a lot of risk involved there.
EDIT: Was beaten to it by Grissi. That's what I get for not submitting the reply before getting coffee.
... doesn't make you slower... yet. ;)
As I imagine the exo right now, they wouldn't fit through the pg.
And I honestly think it's awesome that they are not able to phase. You will have to gather in base and cross the whole map as a big group, with exos as tanks, covered by jetpackers, some light infanty and an ARCtrain. There will be some epic battles, when aliens ambush them.
Reason being, if they can phase, they're going to have to limit the power on them rather a lot, because being able to teleport half a dozen exos around the map willy nilly would be horribly OP otherwise.
But if they have a movement restriction, they can get more armor as a tradeoff, and marines desperately need more tanky options.
unphaseable exos sounds legit.
phasing right into the heat of the battle as exo denies this disadvantage and jetpack would lose much of its advantage.
march march
shoot shoot
ammo request
weld weld
march march
A decent (worked together) heavy train could wind up a game.
They idea that exos can phase is great! If you buy an exo you will get a minigun with 250 rounds. And you can wear 2 pairs of them. So one exo can theoretical solo a hive by emptying his 2 mini guns.
Thats alot of firepower, now if a group of 10 could phase right beside the hive it would be Hive down in 2s.
Aliens have a bigger reaction time if they can not phase.
But fast exo don't sound very well, but im sure uwe could not test it out, so have patience.
if its not working, they will change it.
In the placeholder exo file its.
kWalkMaxSpeed = 4.38
default marines have a walk speed of 5.
And the Acceleration = 40 of exo, while default marines have 50 so im not sure if the exo is realy that fast.
it would just look weird, seeing a heavy on speed.
maybe they get a energy sprint, like the jetpack can fly, the heavy can boost up for a short time.
But fast exo don't sound very well, but im sure uwe could not test it out, so have patience.
if its not working, they will change it.
In the placeholder exo file its.
kWalkMaxSpeed = 4.38
default marines have a walk speed of 5.
And the Acceleration = 40 of exo, while default marines have 50 so im not sure if the exo is realy that fast.
it would just look weird, seeing a heavy on speed.
maybe they get a energy sprint, like the jetpack can fly, the heavy can boost up for a short time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, the auto bots can run really fast ;).
But yeah, they need to be slower than a normal marine.
I like no Exo PG, tanks don't generally deal to well with doorways....urban warfare is generally not tank friendly.
if the hive isn't next to marine base then it obviously wouldn't be wise for everyone to go exo.
What I <u>expect</u> to see are a few marines picking up XO suits while the rest get jetpacks or whatever else to provide cover for the XO's.
Anyway, HA trains were rampant in NS1. Marine base would be left empty as the HA train moved from each hive, clearing it out and destroying the aliens, sometimes PG's were used, sometimes not. Each strategy is viable.
If the marines keep pressure (real or imagined) on the hive then the aliens must play defensive and kill the XO train otherwise they'll lose their hive in record time.
I'm curious to see how XO's not being allowed to use PG's will pan out. On paper it provides a clear pro/con choice and forces the marine to mix 'n match their team for what's the most effective loadout to take out the alien team.
Just because you're not mobile doesn't mean you're not deadly.
Seriously? Did i just read that?
I mean does it even need an answer?
There are a couple simple solutions but can you seriously not work it out for yourself?
Same as hives with onos of aliens :P
I mean does it even need an answer?
There are a couple simple solutions but can you seriously not work it out for yourself?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're going to have pretensions of holding the intellectual high ground, the least you could do is actually think about the issue.
Presumably your "simple solutions" are Distress Beacon and not having the whole team use them. You may have also been thinking of turrets but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Even if exosuits can benefit from Beacon but not phase gates, which is a bit weird but let's run with it, it doesn't actually solve anything. Let's suppose a squad of exosuit-wearing marines march out of spawn, then a bunch of aliens show up to trash the place. The commander beacons, the aliens piss off before they arrive, and the marines are back in spawn again. Okay. That's nice.
Now what do they do? March out again? Make the commander beacon again?
They'll never actually get anywhere like that.
So let's suppose, in an effort to avoid that embarrassment, the marine players have the discipline not to take exosuits all round. (In public games, they usually won't, but never mind that for now.) Some remain lightly armoured, letting them go from A to B faster and phase back and forth if need be. It's an improvement, but not without fault.
If equipping the whole team with exosuits is not a viable strategy, they'll have to be statistically balanced around their limited representation. When deciding that an upgrade of any sort should only be used by a subset of the team at once, deciding how large that subset should be immediately raises the question of how well it scales with team size. If exosuits are supposed to counter the Onos, which can be used in packs without a similar drawback, large teams won't be able to deploy enough of them to actually have that effect. On the other hand, if they're powerful enough that only a couple of them <i>can</i> in fact counter a handful of Onoses, what does that mean for their capabilities in smaller games? It's all very well to blithely assume the scaling would work out more or less evenly between the two teams, but they're different enough that I'd be surprised if it went smoothly.
If you have a different take on the matter then by all means share it, but keep the snide attitude to yourself.
<!--quoteo(post=1919260:date=Mar 29 2012, 04:48 PM:name=Price)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Price @ Mar 29 2012, 04:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919260"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Same as hives with onos of aliens :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And there's my point - the two are actually not the same. The Onos can get around the map and react to events faster than an exosuit-wearing marine that can't phase. Once the Shift is in, they'll have the alien version of Beacon too. So a full team of Onoses is less detrimental to map presence than a full team of exosuits looks set to be, which brings in the scaling issues mentioned above.
If they can pull it off, more power to them, but we'll have to wait and see.
If you know the aliens are in a position to attack (which is to say, if you aren't right this second killing their hive) then you should be keeping a sort of skirmish perimeter around your base, with squads covering multiple routes out of the base.
If the attack on the hive goes well, then you can use your mobile marines to support it.