I wonder if it will be possible to go gorge, plant hydras and go back to skulk. Dunno how it affects early game, when 8 players drop hydras in the second hive position.
I think it would be nice if all buildings of a Gorge player is highlighted through walls for him, and building a new anything (after cap is hit) would kill the oldest one built.
<!--quoteo(post=1919104:date=Mar 28 2012, 05:41 PM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Mar 28 2012, 05:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919104"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it would be nice if all buildings of a Gorge player is highlighted through walls for him, and building a new anything (after cap is hit) would kill the oldest one built.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or just able to "eat" the old hydra by highlighting it through the wall.
Think Team Fortress 2's Demoman's Scottish Resistance.
<!--quoteo(post=1919102:date=Mar 28 2012, 05:36 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Mar 28 2012, 05:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919102"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like this idea, except I think it will get annoying having an unwanted hydra sitting across the map with no way to ever rebuild it except to waddle all the way over there. Personally I would rather they be time limited instead(or in addition).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that would make many a gorge upset when their hydra wall that's tanking a few marines suddenly vanishes.
There's still the problem of linear ResFlow. Darn, are there only few people who find this boring?
To RfK: In NS1 no one ever felt bad because a good player could fade earlier. Seriously, there were some things to get mad about (JP HMG ownage etc.) but not RfK. Never. You had <i>your own</i> goals on how many kills you can get.
Besides that, RfK is not the only way to reward a player. Maybe it could be 0.25 Res for every Parasite that lands first on a marine, or getting, how much ever, for making 70% damage to a RT, or...dunno I am not a creative game designer (except for my scrollwheel-idea on commander cyst placement that no one wanted to have :p)
Whatever. Or are you guys enemies of dynamics? As I stated, balance or fairness to other palyers is not the problem here. It's fun, not no fun!
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1919084:date=Mar 28 2012, 01:49 PM:name=Bicsum)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bicsum @ Mar 28 2012, 01:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919084"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One question: will your structures die when you are no longer a gorge (death/evolve)?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd prefer it to work such that they remained after you died/evolved, but that if you reevolved to gorge, they would still count to your structure limit. Otherwise, attacking entrenched alien locations would be mostly find and kill all the gorges to eliminate their defensive structures.
<!--quoteo(post=1919128:date=Mar 28 2012, 05:43 PM:name=DJPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DJPenguin @ Mar 28 2012, 05:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919128"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that would make many a gorge upset when their hydra wall that's tanking a few marines suddenly vanishes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe instead they could require upkeep of some kind, like if the Gorge hasn't healsprayed it for a while it starts losing health like a disconnected cyst. That way his structures are useful as frontline reinforcement rather than permanent fortifications like the comm builds.
<!--quoteo(post=1919136:date=Mar 28 2012, 07:13 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Mar 28 2012, 07:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd prefer it to work such that they remained after you died/evolved, but that if you reevolved to gorge, they would still count to your structure limit. Otherwise, attacking entrenched alien locations would be mostly find and kill all the gorges to eliminate their defensive structures.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that would then just put pressure on everyone on the alien team to go gorge just to drop hydras.
serious alien commander: WHO DIDN'T DROP THEIR ****ING HYDRAS YET!?
The only sensible way is to make it so the buildings die when you're no longer a gorge, like if you change class from engineer to scout in TF2. Otherwise we'll have to sit through another patch where nobody wants to play because of <i>really </i>shortsighted decisions.
If buildings free and rebuildable/portable, you don't need to shed a bucket of tears for them when they die with you.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited March 2012
the real question is: with no personal res sink, will the gorge's pres flow be frozen as long as he's a gorge? or maybe only receiving 30% of incoming res? otherwise theres no trade off.
/end derailing. (Sry basie)
ontopic: what you are referring to is called "Mass tech" issue that swalk brought up in a large 12 page thread about a month ago. check it out. lots of great answers in there. mostly utilizing the Rock, Paper, Scissor mechanics that you see in the high level design doc by charlie. OR my idea of using the recorded teamplay /encouraged elements of the game to acquire pres, seriously offsetting a whole team massing tech/lifeform at once <i>without </i>coordination while also promoting proper gameplay! i'll see if i can find a link for it..
<!--quoteo(post=1919013:date=Mar 28 2012, 12:34 PM:name=countbasie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (countbasie @ Mar 28 2012, 12:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919013"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When I lose my Lifeform I always feel powerless and a little bored.
What about slower ResFlow for Aliens and bring Res for kill back? it was a great motivator in NS1. Or some else opportunity to get more Res? Some dynamics in the ResFlow would be nice. Staring at a linear raising number from time to time is not really funny. Especially when you have 45 Res. In NS1 yu said: Cool, 2-3 Kills and I can go Fade. Now it is: Yawn...5 more.....
(I know you can help as a skulk but anyway)
EDIT: Would be nice, if some people would make a point on 'Or some else opportunity to get more Res' as this isn't supposed to be a RFK-Thread only :D there are enough discussions about that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i dont think its a problem... not enough res? get more RTs. RTs going down? defend, or do more harras.
What i think is the problem now, is the upgrades costing a bit high I guess... discouraging skulks to get upgrades, because they die so easiliy even with upgrades now with the revamped map and skulk movement
oldassgamersJoin Date: 2011-02-02Member: 80033Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
I wish that uwe gives resources when a player get a kill, also giving teamres for the commander.
Those make sence for thoughs who's very active in the battlefield, the more kills they get, the faster they'll get res. Like in ns1.
But i think at current beta stage the aliens get lifefarm to fast. Slowing that down a bit and giving the player res for each kills they get will imrpove the resflow.
IMO the aliens start with too much res. Thise 25 Pres are a relict from NS1, so that all could go gorge and drop 1 RT in the beginning. But now where the Aliens have a more stable resincome, than in NS1, the 25Pres are too much.
Reducing it would delay the Adv. Lifeforms alot. And the gorge won't need Pres anymore to build structures.
<!--quoteo(post=1919304:date=Mar 29 2012, 01:10 PM:name=Floodinator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Floodinator @ Mar 29 2012, 01:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919304"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->IMO the aliens start with too much res. Thise 25 Pres are a relict from NS1, so that all could go gorge and drop 1 RT in the beginning. But now where the Aliens have a more stable resincome, than in NS1, the 25Pres are too much.
Reducing it would delay the Adv. Lifeforms alot. And the gorge won't need Pres anymore to build structures.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is actually a good point. But then turrets should be available later as well, because the small lifeforms will be on the field longer.
(I hate turrets. Dynamic ResFlow idea: make the marine team lose all their Pres for every third turret. And add a slap on the com's fingers for the fourth.)
To the 'Secure RTs to get more Res'-guys:
In mid/late game both teams have their areas. The whole goal of the game is then to get <i>one</i> of those locked up areas down. You can kill some RTs in between, but dropping an own one there is useless, because it will be down in less than a minute. I always try to keep RTs down and up, but there's no chance to keep new ones up at a certain point in the game. That means, the ResFlow is either linear or will become even slower when one RT is killed. What I want is a chance to get a bit <i>more</i> Res by certain actions. That makes it a RTS for the Com and a FPS for the soldiers. The com is rewarded by getting more territory, the soldier is rewarded by getting cooler stuff to fight with. Everybody's happy then. We will actually see more dancers and Flashlight-Discos when dynamic ResFlow comes. Maybe there will even grow some flowers in tram.
<!--quoteo(post=1919045:date=Mar 28 2012, 12:46 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Mar 28 2012, 12:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919045"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That will be changing soon. The plan is to have the Gorge be able to build cysts/hydras/goo walls, etc, without any res cost, just a limit on how many he can build at any one time. So, less waiting, and more strategizing as to what to build and where.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skill cool down functionality would work perfectly. Hoping this mechanic is being considered.
<!--quoteo(post=1919357:date=Mar 29 2012, 04:29 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Mar 29 2012, 04:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919357"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Skill cool down functionality would work perfectly. Hoping this mechanic is being considered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Or just able to "eat" the old hydra by highlighting it through the wall.
Think Team Fortress 2's Demoman's Scottish Resistance.
that would make many a gorge upset when their hydra wall that's tanking a few marines suddenly vanishes.
There's still the problem of linear ResFlow. Darn, are there only few people who find this boring?
To RfK: In NS1 no one ever felt bad because a good player could fade earlier. Seriously, there were some things to get mad about (JP HMG ownage etc.) but not RfK. Never. You had <i>your own</i> goals on how many kills you can get.
Besides that, RfK is not the only way to reward a player. Maybe it could be 0.25 Res for every Parasite that lands first on a marine, or getting, how much ever, for making 70% damage to a RT, or...dunno I am not a creative game designer (except for my scrollwheel-idea on commander cyst placement that no one wanted to have :p)
Whatever. Or are you guys enemies of dynamics? As I stated, balance or fairness to other palyers is not the problem here. It's fun, not no fun!
I'd prefer it to work such that they remained after you died/evolved, but that if you reevolved to gorge, they would still count to your structure limit. Otherwise, attacking entrenched alien locations would be mostly find and kill all the gorges to eliminate their defensive structures.
Maybe instead they could require upkeep of some kind, like if the Gorge hasn't healsprayed it for a while it starts losing health like a disconnected cyst. That way his structures are useful as frontline reinforcement rather than permanent fortifications like the comm builds.
that would then just put pressure on everyone on the alien team to go gorge just to drop hydras.
serious alien commander: WHO DIDN'T DROP THEIR ****ING HYDRAS YET!?
If buildings free and rebuildable/portable, you don't need to shed a bucket of tears for them when they die with you.
/end derailing. (Sry basie)
ontopic: what you are referring to is called "Mass tech" issue that swalk brought up in a large 12 page thread about a month ago. check it out. lots of great answers in there. mostly utilizing the Rock, Paper, Scissor mechanics that you see in the high level design doc by charlie. OR my idea of using the recorded teamplay /encouraged elements of the game to acquire pres, seriously offsetting a whole team massing tech/lifeform at once <i>without </i>coordination while also promoting proper gameplay! i'll see if i can find a link for it..
What about slower ResFlow for Aliens and bring Res for kill back? it was a great motivator in NS1. Or some else opportunity to get more Res? Some dynamics in the ResFlow would be nice. Staring at a linear raising number from time to time is not really funny. Especially when you have 45 Res. In NS1 yu said: Cool, 2-3 Kills and I can go Fade. Now it is: Yawn...5 more.....
(I know you can help as a skulk but anyway)
EDIT: Would be nice, if some people would make a point on 'Or some else opportunity to get more Res' as this isn't supposed to be a RFK-Thread only :D there are enough discussions about that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i dont think its a problem...
not enough res? get more RTs.
RTs going down? defend, or do more harras.
What i think is the problem now, is the upgrades costing a bit high I guess... discouraging skulks to get upgrades, because they die so easiliy even with upgrades now with the revamped map and skulk movement
Those make sence for thoughs who's very active in the battlefield, the more kills they get, the faster they'll get res. Like in ns1.
But i think at current beta stage the aliens get lifefarm to fast. Slowing that down a bit and giving the player res for each kills they get will imrpove the resflow.
Reducing it would delay the Adv. Lifeforms alot.
And the gorge won't need Pres anymore to build structures.
Reducing it would delay the Adv. Lifeforms alot.
And the gorge won't need Pres anymore to build structures.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is actually a good point. But then turrets should be available later as well, because the small lifeforms will be on the field longer.
(I hate turrets. Dynamic ResFlow idea: make the marine team lose all their Pres for every third turret. And add a slap on the com's fingers for the fourth.)
To the 'Secure RTs to get more Res'-guys:
In mid/late game both teams have their areas. The whole goal of the game is then to get <i>one</i> of those locked up areas down. You can kill some RTs in between, but dropping an own one there is useless, because it will be down in less than a minute. I always try to keep RTs down and up, but there's no chance to keep new ones up at a certain point in the game. That means, the ResFlow is either linear or will become even slower when one RT is killed. What I want is a chance to get a bit <i>more</i> Res by certain actions. That makes it a RTS for the Com and a FPS for the soldiers. The com is rewarded by getting more territory, the soldier is rewarded by getting cooler stuff to fight with.
Everybody's happy then. We will actually see more dancers and Flashlight-Discos when dynamic ResFlow comes. Maybe there will even grow some flowers in tram.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skill cool down functionality would work perfectly. Hoping this mechanic is being considered.
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