So <ul><li>It's an intended feature, working as designed</li><li>Level designers take this in to consideration when placing vents and choke points</li><li>UWE factors in the blocking strength/size of the buildings when working out their cost</li></ul>How about d) none of the above.
Also, if it were a feature <ul><li>It's immersion breaking</li><li>Can't be tweeked for balance purposes (it's either in or out)</li><li>Glitchy (meaning random, which is the opposite of skill based)</li><li>Counter-intuitive & inaccessible</li></ul>Lemme just check wikipedia for a sec
Last point - I'd have no issue if UWE added a feature to marine comm where they could drop something like medpacks which would slow down or halt an alien for a time. I'd also have no issue if they added a building called barricade or vent grill. The difference is it would be a clearly intended feature which could be adjusted for balance rather than the byproduct of some other game mechanics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's stifle all creative play by removing everything that is not an 'intended feature.' What would NS1/NS2/any other games be like if they were played in ONLY the ways the designers thought possible? Isn't taking advantage of a games rules for your own benefit kind of the point to competing against other players? Designers should be happy that players are thinking outside the box.
To your list about 'features':
- I don't feel it breaks my 'immersion' - Yes it can be tweaked. (Ghosting it, 0HP before a marine touches it, etc) - How is it random or glitchy? - How was is counter intuitive or inaccessible? The game hasn't even been released yet and commanders are catching on to little tricks like this. "Big cow run away, must block big cow to kill"
Just because you don't LIKE a strategy or tactic, doesn't mean it is not valid.
I don't think it has got enough of interaction if the commander can just slam the building out of nowhere. It works a bit similar as SC2 forcefield, you run into a lot of situations where you just can't engange because the enemy can shut you down big time with a single click. In a hit and run based combat it's probably even worse.
I definitely appreciate any kind of depth elements and situational micro commander can get, but building blocking has never been an element I particularly enjoy.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1919811:date=Mar 30 2012, 11:19 AM:name=TremanN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TremanN @ Mar 30 2012, 11:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's stifle all creative play by removing everything that is not an 'intended feature.' What would NS1/NS2/any other games be like if they were played in ONLY the ways the designers thought possible? Isn't taking advantage of a games rules for your own benefit kind of the point to competing against other players? Designers should be happy that players are thinking outside the box.
To your list about 'features':
- I don't feel it breaks my 'immersion' - Yes it can be tweaked. (Ghosting it, 0HP before a marine touches it, etc) - How is it random or glitchy? - How was is counter intuitive or inaccessible? The game hasn't even been released yet and commanders are catching on to little tricks like this. "Big cow run away, must block big cow to kill"
Just because you don't LIKE a strategy or tactic, doesn't mean it is not valid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> While, in principle, I could see someone using armory blocking as a valid tactic to help win a game, in practice, I only see it used to troll the alien team. While I don't think UWE should remove a tactic simply because its unintended, I do think they should removes ones that are being used to unnecessarily drag out games.
<!--quoteo(post=1919811:date=Mar 30 2012, 11:19 AM:name=TremanN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TremanN @ Mar 30 2012, 11:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's stifle all creative play by removing everything that is not an 'intended feature.' What would NS1/NS2/any other games be like if they were played in ONLY the ways the designers thought possible? Isn't taking advantage of a games rules for your own benefit kind of the point to competing against other players? Designers should be happy that players are thinking outside the box.
To your list about 'features':
- I don't feel it breaks my 'immersion' - Yes it can be tweaked. (Ghosting it, 0HP before a marine touches it, etc) - How is it random or glitchy? - How was is counter intuitive or inaccessible? The game hasn't even been released yet and commanders are catching on to little tricks like this. "Big cow run away, must block big cow to kill"
Just because you don't LIKE a strategy or tactic, doesn't mean it is not valid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1919811:date=Mar 30 2012, 11:19 AM:name=TremanN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TremanN @ Mar 30 2012, 11:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Yes it can be tweaked. (Ghosting it, 0HP before a marine touches it, etc)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then we're no longer talking about the primary complaint.
So just give the armories 10% HP until they're built. 1 or 2 hits from an Onos and it's gone. That could be enough to bring him down, but if it wasn't, then it's a huge waste of res.
It's worth trying to balance just to give commanders more options.
<!--quoteo(post=1919866:date=Mar 31 2012, 08:45 AM:name=TheIcarusKid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheIcarusKid @ Mar 31 2012, 08:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919866"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So just give the armories 10% HP until they're built. 1 or 2 hits from an Onos and it's gone. That could be enough to bring him down, but if it wasn't, then it's a huge waste of res.
It's worth trying to balance just to give commanders more options.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is, this is already pretty much the case. Onii do kill armouries in just about 2 smashes so i don't see instant building blocking as anything other than buying a few more seconds or sealing the deal on lifeforms that are low and on fire. They function not at all like forcefields in sc2 because they really are very easily destroyed and block ranged fire.
You can do more than block space cows with armouries like quickly blocking vents (such as the one in sub acess). There are also a few other creative uses that i'm not willing to divulge :p.
In regard to blocking powernodes, this wasn't as effective as it is now because gorges had bilebomb. You could block, but with teamwork aliens could really destroy any wall. Playing the game more and more all i see are problems that were solved by gorge bilebomb now cropping up all over the metagame. >_> gorge bilebomb pleases? =D
<!--quoteo(post=1919811:date=Mar 31 2012, 05:19 AM:name=TremanN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TremanN @ Mar 31 2012, 05:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's stifle all creative play by removing everything that is not an 'intended feature.'<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is not at all what I'm suggesting.
<!--quoteo(post=1919811:date=Mar 31 2012, 05:19 AM:name=TremanN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TremanN @ Mar 31 2012, 05:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just because you don't LIKE a strategy or tactic, doesn't mean it is not valid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Who said I don't like it? I've used it as a comm myself & I've had it used on me.
I think NS currently has this emergent feature which the community is divided over. I listed several problems with it and suggested a solution.
The problem in this thread is where people are jumping to a conclusion of "valid strategy" without any explaination.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1919923:date=Mar 31 2012, 01:35 AM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Mar 31 2012, 01:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919923"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In regard to blocking powernodes, this wasn't as effective as it is now because gorges had bilebomb. You could block, but with teamwork aliens could really destroy any wall. Playing the game more and more all i see are problems that were solved by gorge bilebomb now cropping up all over the metagame. >_> gorge bilebomb pleases? =D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This was foreseen by the players, unfortunately the developers doesn't seem to agree. Lerk doesn't fit the anti-structure role at all. Gorge does.
Comments
So
<ul><li>It's an intended feature, working as designed</li><li>Level designers take this in to consideration when placing vents and choke points</li><li>UWE factors in the blocking strength/size of the buildings when working out their cost</li></ul>How about d) none of the above.
Also, if it were a feature
<ul><li>It's immersion breaking</li><li>Can't be tweeked for balance purposes (it's either in or out)</li><li>Glitchy (meaning random, which is the opposite of skill based)</li><li>Counter-intuitive & inaccessible</li></ul>Lemme just check wikipedia for a sec
Last point - I'd have no issue if UWE added a feature to marine comm where they could drop something like medpacks which would slow down or halt an alien for a time. I'd also have no issue if they added a building called barricade or vent grill. The difference is it would be a clearly intended feature which could be adjusted for balance rather than the byproduct of some other game mechanics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's stifle all creative play by removing everything that is not an 'intended feature.' What would NS1/NS2/any other games be like if they were played in ONLY the ways the designers thought possible? Isn't taking advantage of a games rules for your own benefit kind of the point to competing against other players? Designers should be happy that players are thinking outside the box.
To your list about 'features':
- I don't feel it breaks my 'immersion'
- Yes it can be tweaked. (Ghosting it, 0HP before a marine touches it, etc)
- How is it random or glitchy?
- How was is counter intuitive or inaccessible? The game hasn't even been released yet and commanders are catching on to little tricks like this. "Big cow run away, must block big cow to kill"
Just because you don't LIKE a strategy or tactic, doesn't mean it is not valid.
I definitely appreciate any kind of depth elements and situational micro commander can get, but building blocking has never been an element I particularly enjoy.
To your list about 'features':
- I don't feel it breaks my 'immersion'
- Yes it can be tweaked. (Ghosting it, 0HP before a marine touches it, etc)
- How is it random or glitchy?
- How was is counter intuitive or inaccessible? The game hasn't even been released yet and commanders are catching on to little tricks like this. "Big cow run away, must block big cow to kill"
Just because you don't LIKE a strategy or tactic, doesn't mean it is not valid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While, in principle, I could see someone using armory blocking as a valid tactic to help win a game, in practice, I only see it used to troll the alien team. While I don't think UWE should remove a tactic simply because its unintended, I do think they should removes ones that are being used to unnecessarily drag out games.
To your list about 'features':
- I don't feel it breaks my 'immersion'
- Yes it can be tweaked. (Ghosting it, 0HP before a marine touches it, etc)
- How is it random or glitchy?
- How was is counter intuitive or inaccessible? The game hasn't even been released yet and commanders are catching on to little tricks like this. "Big cow run away, must block big cow to kill"
Just because you don't LIKE a strategy or tactic, doesn't mean it is not valid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS.
Then we're no longer talking about the primary complaint.
It's worth trying to balance just to give commanders more options.
It's worth trying to balance just to give commanders more options.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing is, this is already pretty much the case. Onii do kill armouries in just about 2 smashes so i don't see instant building blocking as anything other than buying a few more seconds or sealing the deal on lifeforms that are low and on fire. They function not at all like forcefields in sc2 because they really are very easily destroyed and block ranged fire.
You can do more than block space cows with armouries like quickly blocking vents (such as the one in sub acess). There are also a few other creative uses that i'm not willing to divulge :p.
In regard to blocking powernodes, this wasn't as effective as it is now because gorges had bilebomb. You could block, but with teamwork aliens could really destroy any wall. Playing the game more and more all i see are problems that were solved by gorge bilebomb now cropping up all over the metagame. >_> gorge bilebomb pleases? =D
That is not at all what I'm suggesting.
<!--quoteo(post=1919811:date=Mar 31 2012, 05:19 AM:name=TremanN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TremanN @ Mar 31 2012, 05:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1919811"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just because you don't LIKE a strategy or tactic, doesn't mean it is not valid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who said I don't like it? I've used it as a comm myself & I've had it used on me.
I think NS currently has this emergent feature which the community is divided over. I listed several problems with it and suggested a solution.
The problem in this thread is where people are jumping to a conclusion of "valid strategy" without any explaination.
This is in no way an 'emergent feature.' Maybe for you it is, but this was going on in NS1 also.
It's a valid strategy but I did not use this to come to that conclusion.
<img src="http://www.petemuller.net/main/images/stories/funny/70384439_ba1fd5b9de.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This is a joke.
This was foreseen by the players, unfortunately the developers doesn't seem to agree.
Lerk doesn't fit the anti-structure role at all. Gorge does.