Anyone else think decent wall jumper is too good now?
PersianImm0rtal
Join Date: 2010-12-02 Member: 75414Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester
Join Date: 2010-12-02 Member: 75414Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester
Comments
Overall, I feel that Skulks have an advantage against Rifle Marines throughout early and mid game, until Marines have armor lvl 3.
I get great performance until more structures and action starts going down. I know that I need to upgrade my processor but my computer runs BF3 and other current games like butter. I think the netcode plays a big part in framerate just like in other games that need to sync with the server constantly. If this game could be handled more on the clientside I bet lag and framerates would be much better.
I get great performance until more structures and action starts going down. I know that I need to upgrade my processor but my computer runs BF3 and other current games like butter. I think the netcode plays a big part in framerate just like in other games that need to sync with the server constantly. If this game could be handled more on the clientside I bet lag and framerates would be much better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the calculations client side, prediction, are the reason why FPS are becoming lower. and of course because the game is not fully optimized yet. I have to personally agree that the numbers are a bit too high currently for the skulk, but i don't know if im right here. only time will tell. if aliens can win games with skulk only and skulks can ignore ambushing completely now, that means it is indeed too fast. but it's too early to say that right now.
my concern was that skulks had no tool to fight extremely accurate marines, or that you could not be outstanding as skulk as you are as marine maybe. not to put those on the same level, but to give "good aim" a counter part on alien side (agility, the option to unleash your potential).
from my experience ambushing still has it's place in the game. my problem with it is that due to often high ping differences i cannot react in time when ambushing. in situations im hiding around a corner it happens that im dead before i even see the marines (with +200 ping difference), which makes ambushing no too attractive currently. it's better right now to keep moving and mitigate the possibility of something like this to happen. vs. same + low ping players i can react in time and ambush properly, and when the marines aim is right i have not a big chance to reach him by wall jumping at full speed and approach straight up through a corridor
About the jump timing and jump spam problem, jump as a short cooldown right ? Is it activated when you jump in the air? It could be an easy way to fix the spam problem (i.e. if you jump to early you will miss the bonus window because of the cooldown).
About the jump timing and jump spam problem, jump as a short cooldown right ? Is it activated when you jump in the air? It could be an easy way to fix the spam problem (i.e. if you jump to early you will miss the bonus window because of the cooldown).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We've been trying to find the sweet spot for it. There's a 0,6 second delay after you jump from a wall before you can jump again from a wall. In a really tight spot where you're maneuvering fast, I've noticed that I make jumps from wall to wall that are less than that 0,6 seconds. We also tried 1 second and that was way too high. In 201, where you had to time your jumps from the wall according to a timing window, there was no spamming delay per se, but the time you had to wait at the wall before getting the perfect boost effectively worked as such. That's why I liked that system. There will always need to be some kind of a hidden delay in the walljumping, whether it is to stop exploiting or to make it balanced some other way.
The current values might be a notch too high, I haven't played enough to find out. I feel like in 202-203 the effectiveness of the rifle and the shotgun plummeted again because of some new prediction code, so that may mask the problem. Having an awful time killing the skulks, while I do see that I'm hitting (client side at least).
The time it takes to get feedback is pretty horrible still as well. If I play at 200 ping and have a skulk biting at my ankle, when I shoot at it with my shotgun after the skulk's first bite, he has time to land two more bites on me before the shotgun shot hits him server side. Client side I can see the shotgun lose the round, but when you go pick it up from the ground again it's full, as if no shot left the barrel.
On 10 ping (my own server which I run for ENSL) I've managed to turn 180 degrees and shoot a skulk after the skulk's first bite before the second one lands. So it's not all too bad. Just need a good server.
BTW the skulk doesn't have 'full air control'. If you press forward and right in the air, the skulk only changes its trajectory by some 20 degrees instead of 45.
+1.000.000.000
The skulk definitely does have 100% air control and it is bad for gameplay. Try doing circles holding W. You never drop below 7 speed, even after doing a 180 in the air. You lose no speed by turning + able to turn on a dime in the air = full air control.
I find it particulary easy to quickly leap to a wall, turn your view and leap to the ceiling, to another wall, or back down. Adrenaline/energy limit prevents from spamming, but you can get enough leaps in to confuse a marine.
Oh by the way, I hate all you motion sick gamers.
I don't mind the way it is now because I don't constantly jump from the floor to the wall trying to gain momentum -- so I could care less if this entire "mechanic" is removed or not. My ranting is just to express my feeling on the matter and not trying to influence anyone to vote a change.
The full air control is a little silly though. This is coming from someone who thoroughly enjoys scoutzknivez and leetskeet.
thanks for at least wanting to wait. it's ability to reliably dodge because of it's nimbleness on walls is it's one saving grace against lvl 3 weapons and other late game annoyances the class encounters.
In older FPS games, this is solved by our friend bunnyhopping, and related mechanics. They're extremely simple to design. You can balance them easily (by changing numbers for air control and speed caps), and they have a large amount of variability (players don't run toward walls before they start moving quickly with a bunnyhop).
Even if you keep adjusting the walljump mechanic and make it really great, it's not a tool to fight extremely accurate marines. Part of the reason those marines are accurate is that they predict where you will move (even though they're aiming hitscan weapons) - if all you have for 'advanced movement' is predictable stuff, you're not equipped to counteract their prediction. You also<b> can't </b>counteract their raw aim - you're always on a clock if a marine can see you.
I'm not saying you need to put bhop in the game, but I think the skulk's movement needs to be more about variability and mindgames than shoehorning the walljump into every situation. I wish I had good suggestions other than bhop, since that's "not going to happen" or whatever.
Even if you keep adjusting the walljump mechanic and make it really great, it's not a tool to fight extremely accurate marines. Part of the reason those marines are accurate is that they predict where you will move (even though they're aiming hitscan weapons) - if all you have for 'advanced movement' is predictable stuff, you're not equipped to counteract their prediction. You also<b> can't </b>counteract their raw aim - you're always on a clock if a marine can see you.
I'm not saying you need to put bhop in the game, but I think the skulk's movement needs to be more about variability and mindgames than shoehorning the walljump into every situation. I wish I had good suggestions other than bhop, since that's "not going to happen" or whatever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wall jumping doesn't make you predictable unless you were already predictable. If a marine can predict your wall jumping, he can predict any crappy bunnyhop mechanic.
watch this about 23 seconds in when he kills the two skulks bhopping into double.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzyi4XF0jKk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzyi4XF0jKk</a>