So basically after Marines run over a load of infestation, set up a powerpack and then a phasegate... they can ninja a hive?
Have I got this right?
Why not just have a 'battery' upgrade that can be added to buildings, so when the power goes it powers them for a limited time?
Comm could click drop it on any building he chooses, and aliens could bite it off.
I just think it is hard enough to sneak through the level as marines at the moment, and now you have to build 2 structures before you can 'ninja'...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As far as I'm aware, that's basically what powerpacks are supposed to be, you stick them to specific buildings, and they keep that building powered.
1. If an gorge/alien comm places a cyst on the power node the power goes off. (You can no longer bite down power nodes. Its boring and successful games aren't boring.)
2. After the cyst is place on the power node aliens get extra power to their infestation which cause them to have hive sight in that area.
3. All Marine structures have a 30 second battery backup. (You telling me they invented phase gates but not battery backup? SMH)
4. Marines have a new ability which causes them to get covered with an infestation camouflage. This helps them to not show up on hive sight and also helps them blend into an alien room. Alien Flashlight can not detect them. They need to be found completely without any help. This is bought at the armory and can be activated by the marine. Marine comms are usually to busy for these types of things and don't pay attention to you until your already in a hot spot. (NINJA IS NEEDED!)
For such advanced civilization to rely on power nodes and expect the power to not go out is flawed. I am sure 90% of the people working on this game or playing this game have battery backups which gives them at least an hour before there computer shuts off to save work.
<!--quoteo(post=1923172:date=Apr 8 2012, 11:11 AM:name=Who is Mike Jones?)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Who is Mike Jones? @ Apr 8 2012, 11:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923172"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. If an gorge/alien comm places a cyst on the power node the power goes off. (You can no longer bite down power nodes. Its boring and successful games aren't boring.)
2. After the cyst is place on the power node aliens get extra power to their infestation which cause them to have hive sight in that area.
3. All Marine structures have a 30 second battery backup. (You telling me they invented phase gates but not battery backup? SMH)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like something like this: Place the power node as a decoration in a room, but once the infestation covers it, its hp drops and it breaks. Marines need to clear infestation and repair the node to restore power. Aliens do NOT hit the node to break it.
This way the aliens can defend the expanding creep, the marines can be defending the node itself. The combat is players vs players rather than players vs buildings. It would also add utility to the flamethrower, keeping infestation at bay.
The current marine 'power' system in general needs a re-think.
- Firstly, it makes no sense that the room has power initially (with no power node), yet if a powernode is created then destroyed, the room loses all power and lights?
- Secondly, it's difficult for marines to repair a power node (as they need to have researched and purchased a welder), yet it's a piece of piss to actually build them - this means there's actually very little point in destroying a power node (other than marine start) because it can be rebuilt so easily.
- Thirdly, Aliens sit with their hive in broad daylight throughout the entire game because they have no way of killing the lights unless marines first install a powernode - wut.
I just think the mechanic simply isn't working and certainly isn't very intuitive. It probably can work, but at the moment it just doesn't. Power packs ain't gonna do it. :(
Just wanted to add that the Power Nodes are great for ending the game as an Alien. It's great for not making the game run on for longer than it should.
Also, when the marines are rushing your base, going after the Power Node in their base is a good way to make them beacon.
I really like the idea of Power Nodes and I'm pretty excited to see ninja Phase Gates come back (Even though it won't really do much because any competent Alien comm will see a guy walking on your creep into your base and tell the team immediately).
<!--quoteo(post=1923039:date=Apr 7 2012, 11:40 PM:name=Grissi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Grissi @ Apr 7 2012, 11:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923039"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's bit funny that they are kinda forced to add powerpacks into the game because of the power grid. I really hate to say this but it would be simpler to remove the power grid.
However if they do find a good use for the power system I'm all up for it, but at the moment its only hurting the game. It gives little value for the damage it does to the game play. The problem is not only ninja phase gates, it wastes players time and limits marine placements. Also makes the game harder to balance.
<b>You can already see this in competitive play, marines build the power nodes but aliens never bite them down. The only place the power is ever taken down is marine start.</b>
I do hope they can find a good place for it in the future.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it takes a total of 3-5 seconds for a single marine to repair a busted power node. It's a waste of 30 seconds for an alien to bite down a power node because of it. That's why the only power node that gets taken down is the marine start one.
Everybody likes the 'idea', that's part of the problem. It looks so neat and fancy and came so early on in NS2's conception that we feel like we have to keep it. So much time (and probably ego) has been invested now, that to get rid of it would feel like a loss, a reluctant acceptance that we've tried and failed. The sunk costs are massive so any additional effort feels small in comparison.
I look at the various suggestions and the majority are improvements but not cures. 'Infesting' nodes to turn off power is better than the current system and adding functionality to the nodes themselves would help to make them feel less redundant. But, at the end of the day, we're just tacking things on to a failing concept. The powerpack is another example of this.
The approach to powergrid is usually split into two camps, those that want scale back the grid to remove its deficiencies and those that want to add things to it to cover them up. Some third way is possible but it would entail a total redesign.
I'd love to try a build without power to see what we'd miss. That way we can actually see conclusively what the powergrid adds to the game. From then, we can see if there are any simpler alternatives that would fill that void - that is, if we feel a void needs to be filled.
What if then.. it only controlled the lights going out in the rooms, and they start socketed again like build 180. Only instead of buildings getting unpowered, they can run on emergency power.
<!--quoteo(post=1923199:date=Apr 8 2012, 01:18 PM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Apr 8 2012, 01:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923199"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like something like this: Place the power node as a decoration in a room, but once the infestation covers it, its hp drops and it breaks. Marines need to clear infestation and repair the node to restore power. Aliens do NOT hit the node to break it.
This way the aliens can defend the expanding creep, the marines can be defending the node itself. The combat is players vs players rather than players vs buildings. It would also add utility to the flamethrower, keeping infestation at bay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this, though this would mean you'd never be able to destroy the one at marine base. I still think some abilities should be able to destroy it, i.e onos smash for example and whips, maybe also lerk bilebomb. But no other abilities. Would make the map control gane feel 'more natural' with players not having to waste time on biting power nodes in most cases.
<!--quoteo(post=1923292:date=Apr 8 2012, 04:12 PM:name=Corpsey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Corpsey @ Apr 8 2012, 04:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923292"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What if then.. it only controlled the lights going out in the rooms, and they start socketed again like build 180. Only instead of buildings getting unpowered, they can run on emergency power.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> i.e. scrap the powergrid :P
I have been playing on and off since alpha. 50 some hours now put into the game (which is by no means a lot, mainly playing recently since balance is O.K.). I have utterly lost any feeling with the lights either way on either team. It doesnt mean anything too me. Just another thing to ignore when engaging the other team. Why center so much on something that all players will out grow. Immersion is great for the first 10 minutes but falls to the way side when it comes to actual game play.
Power nodes are annoying to find and build as marines/ annoying to kill as aliens. Just because the lights are off doesnt mean it is alien controlled, it just means some lone skulk took too much time chewing on something that can be brought back in a manner of seconds. It costs no res to build them or repair them once destroyed. Waste of time and unneeded. The only time they become important is in Marine base, which knocks out lights, spawning, beacon, upgrades, and weapons/ammo. WAY to powerful. I dont see being able to knock out 2 cysts in the Alien start to disable everything, why MS then?
DI is enough for territorial distinction. Power nodes need a reboot or removal... period.
Hmmmm well maybe not... powerpacks did work quite well in conjunction with power nodes.. I don't know about this whole 1 PP to 1 structure deal though.. that seems like just a waste of res in the making (powerpack goes down, phasegate goes down). From what I remember the ninja would drop 1 PP and 1 PG, and then the people warping in would build ANOTHER PP just in case the first one went down, and usually a turret. That's a small investment and well worth taking down a hive.. and if it failed usually one marine would be around the corner building another phasegate anyways so we could all re-rush the spot that just failed / is failing, kill the aliens on the stuff (and if powerpack survived, build an armory) etc etc.
So I don't know.. I honestly liked the powerpacks and am not sure why they were removed or need to be changed. I guess though the 1/1 PP to Building thing could work it just sounds like a pain in the ass for a system that can be done how it was before.. 2 Powerpacks were dropped anyways, and so were 2 structures.. why over complicate it by limiting how many structures the pack powers? They had a pretty short range iirc and that was their downfall.
idk though like what are other peoples thoughts of the powerpacks when they were in the game? I was actually surprised when they were removed.
I'd have no problem if "Power Nodes" became "Sentry Co-ordination Nodes" a.k.a turret factory from NS1. Turning off static defense (and the occasional PG) is surely the big reason to keep them in (other than pretty lighting states), right?
Hmm sentries in NS1 needed power and they were annoying as hell too though, the turret factory wasn't hard to find but instead it was electrified which I never really liked at all because I usually ended up being the only one trying to take them down in pubs.. It's frustrating when people don't understand their prioritization and how little HP they had. I have nightmares about getting ones to 1 bar (at least red, or low yellow) and teammates incapable of finishing them off, marines welding them to full HP.. and sure enough they are electrified soon after. They should not be hard to find surely.. flick alien vision on and off.......
Personally I think it is a good idea to bring them back. They did help the marines far too much when they where last in but I think this time, with the indroduction of many new things, onos and new tech included, it will balance the gameout a tad bit. For example, an onos comes in a room which the marines are using to phase, having the PP will allowe them to come back in and try and retake it. But also they wont be able to use a armoury (if build in the same room), wont be able to get res from their RT (if there is one in the room) and there senturys wont be able to fire (if there is any). It makes it so that if the power node is down all is not lost, there will be a slight chance for the marines to contest the room and possibly retake it back. If anything I think it might make the game better to play as a team based game. But thats just me and I can see, and understand, the points given by people who dissagree with them being brought back. But in all fairness if they did come back and didn't work with the gamplay, UNW would either make them work ortake them out. It is a Beta so lets just see how it goes.
<!--quoteo(post=1923039:date=Apr 8 2012, 04:40 AM:name=Grissi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Grissi @ Apr 8 2012, 04:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923039"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can already see this in competitive play, marines build the power nodes but aliens never bite them down. The only place the power is ever taken down is marine start.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have more than one node in marine start, or allow the comm to upgrade the power node to have more HP?
<!--quoteo(post=1923527:date=Apr 9 2012, 09:01 AM:name=profjekyll)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (profjekyll @ Apr 9 2012, 09:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923527"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have more than one node in marine start, or allow the comm to upgrade the power node to have more HP?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That will just make them useless <i>everywhere</i>.
Comments
So basically after Marines run over a load of infestation, set up a powerpack and then a phasegate... they can ninja a hive?
Have I got this right?
Why not just have a 'battery' upgrade that can be added to buildings, so when the power goes it powers them for a limited time?
Comm could click drop it on any building he chooses, and aliens could bite it off.
I just think it is hard enough to sneak through the level as marines at the moment, and now you have to build 2 structures before you can 'ninja'...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As far as I'm aware, that's basically what powerpacks are supposed to be, you stick them to specific buildings, and they keep that building powered.
2. After the cyst is place on the power node aliens get extra power to their infestation which cause them to have hive sight in that area.
3. All Marine structures have a 30 second battery backup. (You telling me they invented phase gates but not battery backup? SMH)
4. Marines have a new ability which causes them to get covered with an infestation camouflage. This helps them to not show up on hive sight and also helps them blend into an alien room. Alien Flashlight can not detect them. They need to be found completely without any help. This is bought at the armory and can be activated by the marine. Marine comms are usually to busy for these types of things and don't pay attention to you until your already in a hot spot. (NINJA IS NEEDED!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For such advanced civilization to rely on power nodes and expect the power to not go out is flawed. I am sure 90% of the people working on this game or playing this game have battery backups which gives them at least an hour before there computer shuts off to save work.
2. After the cyst is place on the power node aliens get extra power to their infestation which cause them to have hive sight in that area.
3. All Marine structures have a 30 second battery backup. (You telling me they invented phase gates but not battery backup? SMH)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like something like this: Place the power node as a decoration in a room, but once the infestation covers it, its hp drops and it breaks. Marines need to clear infestation and repair the node to restore power. Aliens do NOT hit the node to break it.
This way the aliens can defend the expanding creep, the marines can be defending the node itself. The combat is players vs players rather than players vs buildings. It would also add utility to the flamethrower, keeping infestation at bay.
- Firstly, it makes no sense that the room has power initially (with no power node), yet if a powernode is created then destroyed, the room loses all power and lights?
- Secondly, it's difficult for marines to repair a power node (as they need to have researched and purchased a welder), yet it's a piece of piss to actually build them - this means there's actually very little point in destroying a power node (other than marine start) because it can be rebuilt so easily.
- Thirdly, Aliens sit with their hive in broad daylight throughout the entire game because they have no way of killing the lights unless marines first install a powernode - wut.
I just think the mechanic simply isn't working and certainly isn't very intuitive. It probably can work, but at the moment it just doesn't. Power packs ain't gonna do it. :(
Also, when the marines are rushing your base, going after the Power Node in their base is a good way to make them beacon.
I really like the idea of Power Nodes and I'm pretty excited to see ninja Phase Gates come back (Even though it won't really do much because any competent Alien comm will see a guy walking on your creep into your base and tell the team immediately).
However if they do find a good use for the power system I'm all up for it, but at the moment its only hurting the game. It gives little value for the damage it does to the game play.
The problem is not only ninja phase gates, it wastes players time and limits marine placements. Also makes the game harder to balance.
<b>You can already see this in competitive play, marines build the power nodes but aliens never bite them down. The only place the power is ever taken down is marine start.</b>
I do hope they can find a good place for it in the future.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it takes a total of 3-5 seconds for a single marine to repair a busted power node. It's a waste of 30 seconds for an alien to bite down a power node because of it. That's why the only power node that gets taken down is the marine start one.
I look at the various suggestions and the majority are improvements but not cures. 'Infesting' nodes to turn off power is better than the current system and adding functionality to the nodes themselves would help to make them feel less redundant. But, at the end of the day, we're just tacking things on to a failing concept. The powerpack is another example of this.
The approach to powergrid is usually split into two camps, those that want scale back the grid to remove its deficiencies and those that want to add things to it to cover them up. Some third way is possible but it would entail a total redesign.
I'd love to try a build without power to see what we'd miss. That way we can actually see conclusively what the powergrid adds to the game. From then, we can see if there are any simpler alternatives that would fill that void - that is, if we feel a void needs to be filled.
This way the aliens can defend the expanding creep, the marines can be defending the node itself. The combat is players vs players rather than players vs buildings. It would also add utility to the flamethrower, keeping infestation at bay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this, though this would mean you'd never be able to destroy the one at marine base. I still think some abilities should be able to destroy it, i.e onos smash for example and whips, maybe also lerk bilebomb. But no other abilities. Would make the map control gane feel 'more natural' with players not having to waste time on biting power nodes in most cases.
i.e. scrap the powergrid :P
Power nodes are annoying to find and build as marines/ annoying to kill as aliens. Just because the lights are off doesnt mean it is alien controlled, it just means some lone skulk took too much time chewing on something that can be brought back in a manner of seconds. It costs no res to build them or repair them once destroyed. Waste of time and unneeded. The only time they become important is in Marine base, which knocks out lights, spawning, beacon, upgrades, and weapons/ammo. WAY to powerful. I dont see being able to knock out 2 cysts in the Alien start to disable everything, why MS then?
DI is enough for territorial distinction. Power nodes need a reboot or removal... period.
Hmmmm well maybe not... powerpacks did work quite well in conjunction with power nodes.. I don't know about this whole 1 PP to 1 structure deal though.. that seems like just a waste of res in the making (powerpack goes down, phasegate goes down). From what I remember the ninja would drop 1 PP and 1 PG, and then the people warping in would build ANOTHER PP just in case the first one went down, and usually a turret. That's a small investment and well worth taking down a hive.. and if it failed usually one marine would be around the corner building another phasegate anyways so we could all re-rush the spot that just failed / is failing, kill the aliens on the stuff (and if powerpack survived, build an armory) etc etc.
So I don't know.. I honestly liked the powerpacks and am not sure why they were removed or need to be changed. I guess though the 1/1 PP to Building thing could work it just sounds like a pain in the ass for a system that can be done how it was before.. 2 Powerpacks were dropped anyways, and so were 2 structures.. why over complicate it by limiting how many structures the pack powers? They had a pretty short range iirc and that was their downfall.
idk though like what are other peoples thoughts of the powerpacks when they were in the game? I was actually surprised when they were removed.
I'd have no problem if "Power Nodes" became "Sentry Co-ordination Nodes" a.k.a turret factory from NS1. Turning off static defense (and the occasional PG) is surely the big reason to keep them in (other than pretty lighting states), right?
You can clearly hear the aliens mashing on it for a good 20 seconds before hand
Only time it isn't is when you got players that left the thing at 4% and then the thing is freaking out with sirens
Have more than one node in marine start, or allow the comm to upgrade the power node to have more HP?
That will just make them useless <i>everywhere</i>.