ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1923620:date=Apr 9 2012, 03:40 PM:name=Master Blaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Blaster @ Apr 9 2012, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923620"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All of the complaints against ARCs may have some credit, but you are ignoring the fact that marines sacrifice getting upgrades in armor and weapons to build a robotics factory and make ARCs. If the marine team has the resources to do BOTH things, then you are not losing because of ARC turrets, but because you fail at killing their RESOURCE TOWERS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This^
A successful ARC train strategy is basically an all-in; you're forgoing pretty much all other tech such that if it fails, you've lost. The time from dropping the robo till 4 ARCs at the hive is pretty considerable (4-5 min, at least), such that if you don't see it coming, that's because your team failed at recon.
I would support a health/damage nerf, though, if the ARC movement, turn, deploy, and fire speeds were increased. You need an ARC train for any successful ARC push because their so slow you can't feasibly retreat them. Instead, you just have to send how many you think you need such that enough survive to kill the hive (you can safely assume the defenders are going to die, because of marine v fade/onos imbalances).
However, in many public matches, ARCs get spammed because they are currently the most effective marine end-game TRes sink. Nerfing them will only shift the problem to another TRes sink (think sentries or armory blocking). I view the public, end-game marine ARC spam as a separate problem from the underlying characteristics of the ARC.
<!--quoteo(post=1923620:date=Apr 9 2012, 06:40 PM:name=Master Blaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Blaster @ Apr 9 2012, 06:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923620"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All of the complaints against ARCs may have some credit, but you are ignoring the fact that marines sacrifice getting upgrades in armor and weapons to build a robotics factory and make ARCs. If the marine team has the resources to do BOTH things, then you are not losing because of ARC turrets, but because you fail at killing their RESOURCE TOWERS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My experience with arcs is a sad sad story.... It's a story with the aliens not checking maps constantly too see the arcs going through the cyst near the base, ignoring warnings, or worst go do their thing else where thinking their helping the team by wondering off and not attacking the arcs.
<i><b>WRONG! </b></i> Seriously, try it on a server with people who have played the game more than once.
Even without lerk bile bomb, 2 arcs would easily be taken down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you drive them into the hive room yes, but you don't do that because that's a dumb idea with only two arcs.
Like I said, use them like siege cannons, defend them like siege cannons, repair them like siege cannons, use the NS1 strategy of building a siege base outside the hive and filing it with marines and an armory and a phase gate and turrets, then wait until the hive is slowly blown to bits.
If the aliens attack the ARCs, they have to sit still while the marines fill them with bullets, if they attack the marines, the arcs can still fire.
I've never used an arc train because I've never needed to, because the siege base strategy works fine if you have some decent players to pull it off. It is certainly less effective than just building a dozen arcs and driving them into the hive, but that's why you restrict arc numbers so you can't do that, isn't it?
<!--quoteo(post=1923722:date=Apr 10 2012, 06:59 AM:name=Mkk_Bitestuff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mkk_Bitestuff @ Apr 10 2012, 06:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923722"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And how many hives can you siege from outside the hive room? There are some but many you cannot do this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well you might not be able to get the actual hive itself from outside the room but you can clear out the room itself, kill most of the cysts, structures, and eggs in the room just with your arcs.
Then you can move in with the marines to clear it up, or bring the arcs forward some. At the very least you can destroy a lot of material, a lot of sunk resources, as well as focussing the bulk of the alien team on attacking one of your forward outposts, rather than anything of significant value to you. They also are going to throw resources and time at resisting your siege attack, while you can still be getting upgrades at this point.
Basically siege bases aren't just there to kill the hive, they provide a phase gate point, a resupply point, a striking point to the rest of the map, they help lock down that hive room if you do take it, and they quite possibly also control a res node. Having one around is just generally a good thing for a marine team, it hurts aliens and helps marines.
I sieged server room just fine from the south with that approach, and you can't hit the hive with arcs unless you're right outside the door. Clearing the room seriously cut down on alien resistance, no healing, umbra, cloaking, or other unpleasantness for the marines to worry about, and as I controlled the doorway, the marines could whittle down the hive from there before they rushed in. It really played out basically the same way it would in NS1, you have marines skirmishing in the doorway, waiting for the arcs to work, while aliens tried to attack but got pushed back by turret coverage, healing marines, and constant phase gate reinforcements. After a while the hive room just got too weak to resist a full attack and they lost the hive.
Perhaps change it so ARCs require a functional Power Node to both deploy and remain powered when deployed (can't undeploy if unpowered)? Pop the node w/ Bile Bomb and you stop the ARCs, if the Comm. doesn't react in time.
We don't need more instant-win switches for the Kharaa tied into the powernode system. If ARCs are tanking too well, they need to be poorer tanks, either by reducing their number (increasing their cost) or by reducing their tankiness (decreased health while firing).
<!--quoteo(post=1923722:date=Apr 9 2012, 10:59 PM:name=Mkk_Bitestuff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mkk_Bitestuff @ Apr 9 2012, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923722"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And how many hives can you siege from outside the hive room? There are some but many you cannot do this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Someone with more Marine comm experience could say more certainly, but I would guess that nearly all the hive spots on Tram and Mineshaft (though not Cave) could be hit from outside the room.
So far I have not seen a failed arc rush in any games I played that did so. The comm just built too many arcs to even stop all of them before killing the hive. I know destroying their RTs is always the solution to this, but still arcs is a sure way to win the game if you save for a lot of them.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1923806:date=Apr 10 2012, 08:36 AM:name=AegisXI)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AegisXI @ Apr 10 2012, 08:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923806"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So far I have not seen a failed arc rush in any games I played that did so. The comm just built too many arcs to even stop all of them before killing the hive. I know destroying their RTs is always the solution to this, but still arcs is a sure way to win the game if you save for a lot of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What your describing isn't an ARC rush, but an ARC spam, which is what happens if aliens let marines too much res. I view an ARC rush as forgoing other tech/upgrade paths to get ARCs before the 2nd hive drops.
Part of the issue is that the aliens don't have an equivalent TRes sink counterpart for the end-game, which, if they did, they would almost certainly use to steamroll marines before they got enough TRes to ARC spam.
<!--quoteo(post=1923848:date=Apr 10 2012, 11:16 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Apr 10 2012, 11:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923848"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What your describing isn't an ARC rush, but an ARC spam, which is what happens if aliens let marines too much res. I view an ARC rush as forgoing other tech/upgrade paths to get ARCs before the 2nd hive drops.
Part of the issue is that the aliens don't have an equivalent TRes sink counterpart for the end-game, which, if they did, they would almost certainly use to steamroll marines before they got enough TRes to ARC spam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You may be able to hit structures from outside the hive room against bad alien comms, but intelligent alien comms will places crags/upgrades behind or out of range of those sieges if possible also.
I also do not like how the marines need to completely go all-in on a strat, where you either push weapons, arcs, or upgrades. The aliens have no such liability really. I would like to see the upgrades progress as part of other strats, where you push heavy weapons or use arcs, or maybe a single weapon with phase gates, stuff like that.
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
In case of balanced teams and trailing games, the outcome is often arc spam or whip spam.
I do think a limit would be good, and rebalanced their stats according to that so one arc has more value. Having 15 arcs coming at you (or the same with whips) is just unstoppable. On NS2_turtle on a gather the other day, so organized play, we were able to stop such a case as aliens but I do think <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->AI units should not outnumber Player units<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1923871:date=Apr 10 2012, 12:12 PM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Apr 10 2012, 12:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923871"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->AI units should not outnumber Player units<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that's a good rule of thumb for a FPS/RTS, but would you consider whips/sentries to be AI enough to fall under the limit?
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1923880:date=Apr 10 2012, 02:21 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Apr 10 2012, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923880"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think that's a good rule of thumb for a FPS/RTS, but would you consider whips/sentries to be AI enough to fall under the limit?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a good point also and I was thinking of that. Whips can be moved so i would put them in a category with arcs. Sentries can't so I would put them in a category like hydras even if these pairs arn't stat comparable.
I think a AI limit would be very good for the game if it is done in design. As there is a unit limit in most rts, and as this is a FPS/RTS I think players should not feel they are in an AI battlefield. Maybe in a different FPS/RTS on a larger scale and ground players are considered heros or something but not in NS2. I think this AI limit should also account for player count, or max player count on the server so you don't have vanishing AI's when people disconnect or things like that.
Certain AIs could cost more or less in the AI limit to account for their power.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1923894:date=Apr 10 2012, 12:54 PM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Apr 10 2012, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923894"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is a good point also and I was thinking of that. Whips can be moved so i would put them in a category with arcs. Sentries can't so I would put them in a category like hydras even if these pairs arn't stat comparable.
I think a AI limit would be very good for the game if it is done in design. As there is a unit limit in most rts, and as this is a FPS/RTS I think players should not feel they are in an AI battlefield. Maybe in a different FPS/RTS on a larger scale and ground players are considered heros or something but not in NS2. I think this AI limit should also account for player count, or max player count on the server so you don't have vanishing AI's when people disconnect or things like that.
Certain AIs could cost more or less in the AI limit to account for their power.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Personally, I'd include whips in the non-AI/sentry category, mainly because no one really uses them as an AI attack unit like the ARC, MAC, or drifter. However, I could see it being different if, for example, a regular whip was made stationary and a mature whip was mobile + could attack without being rooted (i.e. the regular whip = non-AI, the mature whip = AI).
Also, I think the best method would be to institute an unit capacity based on the number of tech points held and varying the amount of the cap each AI unit consumed. For example, a drifter/MAC could use up 1 cap each, while ARCs/mature whips consumed 5 cap each. Then you could set the per technode cap at like 15-20 each.
<!--quoteo(post=1923895:date=Apr 10 2012, 01:01 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Apr 10 2012, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923895"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally, I'd include whips in the non-AI/sentry category, mainly because no one really uses them as an AI attack unit like the ARC, MAC, or drifter. However, I could see it being different if, for example, a regular whip was made stationary and a mature whip was mobile + could attack without being rooted (i.e. the regular whip = non-AI, the mature whip = AI).
Also, I think the best method would be to institute an unit capacity based on the number of tech points held and varying the amount of the cap each AI unit consumed. For example, a drifter/MAC could use up 1 cap each, while ARCs/mature whips consumed 5 cap each. Then you could set the per technode cap at like 15-20 each.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about a Tres cap based on the number of tech nodes currently held as well? Either team getting to unlimited Tres makes for some pretty sticky situations.
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
A cap definitely has to be placed somewhere. Balance can only be achieve with a fixed number of weights, if both sides have unlimited weight, it is not really balance.
I also like the idea of tieing # of AI units to techpoints, and having different AI units cost more or less of these depending on their relative power so we don't have to worry if they are stationary of fixed.
If so, aliens should get more slots per tp. Something like a tp gives ~5 slots to marines and ~8 to aliens. A mac/drifter/hydra would be ~1, a sentry/whip ~2, and an arc ~3. Upgrading could cost a slot too so a mature whip ~3.
Comm sends deployment order to the ARC, which becomes a build order for the marines. Marines must use their builder tool to deploy the ARCs. This requires marine support with the caravan, and also retains the mobility of the ARCs.
Would repacking the ARCs require building again? I can see it either way.
Comm sends deployment order to the ARC, which becomes a build order for the marines. Marines must use their builder tool to deploy the ARCs. This requires marine support with the caravan, and also retains the mobility of the ARCs.
Would repacking the ARCs require building again? I can see it either way.
Objections?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Their range is too short and there's no way to currently see if they are in range of the hive or not, so you have to put them quite close to the hive if you want to make sure they hit it, and then you want marines to stand on top of them and "build" them to deploy? they will get ripped apart in such a vulnerable position so close to the hive.
The way arcs requirements is fine with me, but the way their gona try to balance it, its going to be tough. They are not OP but they are a sure way to turn the tables in a game.
Comm sends deployment order to the ARC, which becomes a build order for the marines. Marines must use their builder tool to deploy the ARCs. This requires marine support with the caravan, and also retains the mobility of the ARCs.
Would repacking the ARCs require building again? I can see it either way.
Objections?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The proper thing in my view is to make ARCs require player support by making them more difficult to defend and use effectively. Not by adding a gimmicky setup step that isn't fun for players to do.
Whip spam is laughable, since 1 - 2 ARCs will easily deal with them before they are even set up. ARC spam is a lot more problematic currently. But yea, an ARC rush is a tactic, ARC spam is just a symptom of marines having too little t.res sinks later in the game. (Aliens barely have any T.res sinks at all, but that's an entirely different problem altogether)
ARCs should be glass cannons, I really don't know why they aren't.
<!--quoteo(post=1923806:date=Apr 10 2012, 08:36 AM:name=AegisXI)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AegisXI @ Apr 10 2012, 08:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1923806"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So far I have not seen a failed arc rush in any games I played that did so. The comm just built too many arcs to even stop all of them before killing the hive. I know destroying their RTs is always the solution to this, but still arcs is a sure way to win the game if you save for a lot of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've defended ARC pushes multiple times in multiple games. I've also had my ARC pushes defended multiple times in multiple games. It is all quite circumstancial. They shouldn't be nerfed. Skulks do fair damage to them, lerks can blanket them with bile bombs with little risk, even proper whip staggering can handle them quite well.
Comments
This^
A successful ARC train strategy is basically an all-in; you're forgoing pretty much all other tech such that if it fails, you've lost. The time from dropping the robo till 4 ARCs at the hive is pretty considerable (4-5 min, at least), such that if you don't see it coming, that's because your team failed at recon.
I would support a health/damage nerf, though, if the ARC movement, turn, deploy, and fire speeds were increased. You need an ARC train for any successful ARC push because their so slow you can't feasibly retreat them. Instead, you just have to send how many you think you need such that enough survive to kill the hive (you can safely assume the defenders are going to die, because of marine v fade/onos imbalances).
However, in many public matches, ARCs get spammed because they are currently the most effective marine end-game TRes sink. Nerfing them will only shift the problem to another TRes sink (think sentries or armory blocking). I view the public, end-game marine ARC spam as a separate problem from the underlying characteristics of the ARC.
This was true when they costed 20 apiece :)
<i><b>WRONG!
</b></i>
Seriously, try it on a server with people who have played the game more than once.
Even without lerk bile bomb, 2 arcs would easily be taken down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you drive them into the hive room yes, but you don't do that because that's a dumb idea with only two arcs.
Like I said, use them like siege cannons, defend them like siege cannons, repair them like siege cannons, use the NS1 strategy of building a siege base outside the hive and filing it with marines and an armory and a phase gate and turrets, then wait until the hive is slowly blown to bits.
If the aliens attack the ARCs, they have to sit still while the marines fill them with bullets, if they attack the marines, the arcs can still fire.
I've never used an arc train because I've never needed to, because the siege base strategy works fine if you have some decent players to pull it off. It is certainly less effective than just building a dozen arcs and driving them into the hive, but that's why you restrict arc numbers so you can't do that, isn't it?
Well you might not be able to get the actual hive itself from outside the room but you can clear out the room itself, kill most of the cysts, structures, and eggs in the room just with your arcs.
Then you can move in with the marines to clear it up, or bring the arcs forward some. At the very least you can destroy a lot of material, a lot of sunk resources, as well as focussing the bulk of the alien team on attacking one of your forward outposts, rather than anything of significant value to you. They also are going to throw resources and time at resisting your siege attack, while you can still be getting upgrades at this point.
Basically siege bases aren't just there to kill the hive, they provide a phase gate point, a resupply point, a striking point to the rest of the map, they help lock down that hive room if you do take it, and they quite possibly also control a res node. Having one around is just generally a good thing for a marine team, it hurts aliens and helps marines.
I sieged server room just fine from the south with that approach, and you can't hit the hive with arcs unless you're right outside the door. Clearing the room seriously cut down on alien resistance, no healing, umbra, cloaking, or other unpleasantness for the marines to worry about, and as I controlled the doorway, the marines could whittle down the hive from there before they rushed in. It really played out basically the same way it would in NS1, you have marines skirmishing in the doorway, waiting for the arcs to work, while aliens tried to attack but got pushed back by turret coverage, healing marines, and constant phase gate reinforcements. After a while the hive room just got too weak to resist a full attack and they lost the hive.
Someone with more Marine comm experience could say more certainly, but I would guess that nearly all the hive spots on Tram and Mineshaft (though not Cave) could be hit from outside the room.
Only SubAccess on Summit though.
What your describing isn't an ARC rush, but an ARC spam, which is what happens if aliens let marines too much res. I view an ARC rush as forgoing other tech/upgrade paths to get ARCs before the 2nd hive drops.
Part of the issue is that the aliens don't have an equivalent TRes sink counterpart for the end-game, which, if they did, they would almost certainly use to steamroll marines before they got enough TRes to ARC spam.
Part of the issue is that the aliens don't have an equivalent TRes sink counterpart for the end-game, which, if they did, they would almost certainly use to steamroll marines before they got enough TRes to ARC spam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whip spam!
I also do not like how the marines need to completely go all-in on a strat, where you either push weapons, arcs, or upgrades. The aliens have no such liability really. I would like to see the upgrades progress as part of other strats, where you push heavy weapons or use arcs, or maybe a single weapon with phase gates, stuff like that.
I do think a limit would be good, and rebalanced their stats according to that so one arc has more value. Having 15 arcs coming at you (or the same with whips) is just unstoppable. On NS2_turtle on a gather the other day, so organized play, we were able to stop such a case as aliens but I do think <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->AI units should not outnumber Player units<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
I think that's a good rule of thumb for a FPS/RTS, but would you consider whips/sentries to be AI enough to fall under the limit?
This.
This is a good point also and I was thinking of that. Whips can be moved so i would put them in a category with arcs. Sentries can't so I would put them in a category like hydras even if these pairs arn't stat comparable.
I think a AI limit would be very good for the game if it is done in design. As there is a unit limit in most rts, and as this is a FPS/RTS I think players should not feel they are in an AI battlefield. Maybe in a different FPS/RTS on a larger scale and ground players are considered heros or something but not in NS2. I think this AI limit should also account for player count, or max player count on the server so you don't have vanishing AI's when people disconnect or things like that.
Certain AIs could cost more or less in the AI limit to account for their power.
I think a AI limit would be very good for the game if it is done in design. As there is a unit limit in most rts, and as this is a FPS/RTS I think players should not feel they are in an AI battlefield. Maybe in a different FPS/RTS on a larger scale and ground players are considered heros or something but not in NS2. I think this AI limit should also account for player count, or max player count on the server so you don't have vanishing AI's when people disconnect or things like that.
Certain AIs could cost more or less in the AI limit to account for their power.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally, I'd include whips in the non-AI/sentry category, mainly because no one really uses them as an AI attack unit like the ARC, MAC, or drifter. However, I could see it being different if, for example, a regular whip was made stationary and a mature whip was mobile + could attack without being rooted (i.e. the regular whip = non-AI, the mature whip = AI).
Also, I think the best method would be to institute an unit capacity based on the number of tech points held and varying the amount of the cap each AI unit consumed. For example, a drifter/MAC could use up 1 cap each, while ARCs/mature whips consumed 5 cap each. Then you could set the per technode cap at like 15-20 each.
Also, I think the best method would be to institute an unit capacity based on the number of tech points held and varying the amount of the cap each AI unit consumed. For example, a drifter/MAC could use up 1 cap each, while ARCs/mature whips consumed 5 cap each. Then you could set the per technode cap at like 15-20 each.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about a Tres cap based on the number of tech nodes currently held as well? Either team getting to unlimited Tres makes for some pretty sticky situations.
I also like the idea of tieing # of AI units to techpoints, and having different AI units cost more or less of these depending on their relative power so we don't have to worry if they are stationary of fixed.
If so, aliens should get more slots per tp. Something like a tp gives ~5 slots to marines and ~8 to aliens. A mac/drifter/hydra would be ~1, a sentry/whip ~2, and an arc ~3. Upgrading could cost a slot too so a mature whip ~3.
Comm sends deployment order to the ARC, which becomes a build order for the marines. Marines must use their builder tool to deploy the ARCs. This requires marine support with the caravan, and also retains the mobility of the ARCs.
Would repacking the ARCs require building again? I can see it either way.
Objections?
+1
Comm sends deployment order to the ARC, which becomes a build order for the marines. Marines must use their builder tool to deploy the ARCs. This requires marine support with the caravan, and also retains the mobility of the ARCs.
Would repacking the ARCs require building again? I can see it either way.
Objections?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Their range is too short and there's no way to currently see if they are in range of the hive or not, so you have to put them quite close to the hive if you want to make sure they hit it, and then you want marines to stand on top of them and "build" them to deploy? they will get ripped apart in such a vulnerable position so close to the hive.
Comm sends deployment order to the ARC, which becomes a build order for the marines. Marines must use their builder tool to deploy the ARCs. This requires marine support with the caravan, and also retains the mobility of the ARCs.
Would repacking the ARCs require building again? I can see it either way.
Objections?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The proper thing in my view is to make ARCs require player support by making them more difficult to defend and use effectively. Not by adding a gimmicky setup step that isn't fun for players to do.
one other thing.. should ono stomp be able to freeze arcs?
ARCs should be glass cannons, I really don't know why they aren't.
I've defended ARC pushes multiple times in multiple games. I've also had my ARC pushes defended multiple times in multiple games. It is all quite circumstancial. They shouldn't be nerfed. Skulks do fair damage to them, lerks can blanket them with bile bombs with little risk, even proper whip staggering can handle them quite well.