some questions about damage types etc.

Laosh'Ra

there are a couple of things i might misunderstand and i'd like them to be correct in the <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=117569" target="_blank">Charts&values involving balance-related variables</a>-thread.

please verify/object to my following assumptions:

// Puncture - Extra vs. players (Spikes) -> this is "Normal"-type against structures?<i> edit: leaving the bonus aside, this is based on "Normal"-type against players too?</i>
// Structural - Double against structures (Gore, Axe, GL) -> also applies to MACs, ARCs and eggs as if they were structures? is "Normal"-type against non-structures?
// StructuresOnly - Doesn't damage players or AI units (ARC) -> this is "Structural" against structures? this does not target MACs, ARCs, Drifters, Babblers? (i know you cannot shoot MACs or ARCs as marines at the moment, but i'm thinking of mods and friendly fire as well as new attacks in the future)
// Corrode - deals normal damage to structures but armor only to non structures -> only deals 10% to marine armor according to kCorrodeDamagePlayerArmorScalar = 0.1?
// ArmorOnly - always affects only armor -> is not used?
// Biological - only organic, biological targets (non mechanical) -> deals "Normal"-type?

kFlameableMultiplier = 3 -> deals 3x damage to "flameable" targets, but there are none yet?

furthermore i'm not really sure how the burning of the flamethrower is working, here are some values in the code:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->kFlamethrowerDamage = 10
kFlamethrowerDamageType = kDamageType.Flame
kFlamethrowerFireDelay = 0.5
kFlamethrowerClipSize = 15

kBurnDamagePerStackPerSecond = 2
kFlamethrowerMaxStacks = 20
kFlamethrowerBurnDuration = 6
kFlamethrowerStackRate = 0.4
kFlameRadius = 1.8
kFlameDamageStackWeight = 0.5<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

and somewhere else:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->kStopFireProbability = .10       // 10% chance per second<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

Dghelneshi

As far as I know, everything that isn't specifically Light or Heavy damage acts as Normal damage.

The fire probably works like this (just guessing, totally unconfirmed):
Every 0.5sec the target takes 10 damage.
Every 0.4sec the target gets a stack of burning fire that does 2 damage per second. It stacks up to 20. Now I don't know whether the stacks are treated individually or as a whole... you could only get up to 15 stacks when they run out individually after 6sec each, so it's probably treated as a whole, but players lose an additional stack randomly with a 10% chance per second. The radius is probably for selfdamage. The weight is just a flat multiplier to the damage as per FireMixin.lua.

Edit: From what I can gather in the FireMixin.lua file, this is mostly correct, but kStopFireProbability is never used. The burn stack most likely gets applied by the original damage event, so it doesn't stack every 0.4sec, this is just a minimum time.

Laosh'Ra

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As far as I know, everything that isn't specifically Light or Heavy damage acts as Normal damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think so too, but the fact that "door"-type is actually "structural" by default bugged me. so i'd rather know for sure as i don't want to present invalid charts.

anyway thanks for the insight on the FT.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The weight is just a flat multiplier to the damage as per FireMixin.lua.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
still, it seems the mechanics of the FT are very complicated if you combine everything...

Dghelneshi

DamageTypes.lua line 300-375 describe exactly all the modifiers to each damage type.

Laosh'Ra

thanks, these lines don't answer my questions directly though. but you god a point as they are a good point to start from when digging deeper into the code... and this is basically where i got most of my assumptions from. but you can always do mistakes when looking into foreign code, so i'd like some second oppinion.

Laosh'Ra

another assumption: ARC and MAC damage do not benefit from the marine weapon upgrades.

what about mines? do they benefit from the weapon upgrades?

Tweadle

Anybody else think this stuff is too complicated?

Laosh'Ra

that's why i'm making charts: you can look it up without understanding all the details.

Tweadle

I get that. I really appreciate your work and I will be referring to it a lot. It's just a shame that literally nobody new to the game and pretty much the majority of those who <b>aren't</b> new to the game won't have a clue unless people like you come along and they happen to have time to read the forums and remember all those ridiculous values.

Most people will just have to build up a highly inaccurate perception of what works against what.

Bacillus

I second Tweadle on this one. I've played games all my life and usually enjoy the more chaotic and complex things get, but I really can't figure out the logic on these.

At the very least the information has to be avaible ingame in a very clear form. Think of SC2 and WC3 once again, the information is very clearly stated and follows a relatively consistent logic throughout the unit design in the game.