<!--quoteo(post=1925390:date=Apr 15 2012, 05:35 AM:name=PvtBones)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PvtBones @ Apr 15 2012, 05:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925390"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about this guys, how about when any marine is standing on a mine, the mine detecting a friendly is on top of it deactivates it'self until the friendly moves away. after he moves the mine will re-activate after half a second (or more or less based on testing.) it'll beep when it de-activates and re-activates to give the players a clue to the mines status.
I think this would be a more elegant solution as it allows marines to still place them around the base and kill skulks munching on IPs. without making them useless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is a really inelegant solution for a number of reasons 1) Limitation of control freedom 2) Unintuitive boundaries and difficulty/clutter to communicate the mechanic. I dont mean just a sound, but any means you might think of to try and communicate the mechanic would be way too big of a clutter footprint imo. 3) Adds unnecessary code to deal with a problem's symptoms and not its cause, namely the pres system. With performance the way it is now, i dont think adding checks for mines in distance etc would help alot (I could be wrong) - especially when you do get mine spam.
Lets imagine in bf3 that your c4 doesn't explode when your near it. Fun? No more jihad jeeping?
I don't really get why this change was made in the first place.
If dropping mines at your feet is really such an effective strategy, just add like a 10 second arming time to them, that'd solve all problems related to in-combat mine use.
A mine costs 5 res. A marine standing around on a mine doing nothing isn't being useful. Lerks can spike/bile, fades can blink, onos can not care, gorges can spit. Skulks can avoid them, suicide on them, trigger them and not get killed or spend time parasiting them if you can get a large chain reaction off.
<!--quoteo(post=1925513:date=Apr 14 2012, 10:04 PM:name=Rover)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rover @ Apr 14 2012, 10:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A mine costs 5 res. A marine standing around on a mine doing nothing isn't being useful. Lerks can spike/bile, fades can blink, onos can not care, gorges can spit. Skulks can avoid them, suicide on them, trigger them and not get killed or spend time parasiting them if you can get a large chain reaction off.
I didn't really see the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1925513:date=Apr 15 2012, 04:04 AM:name=Rover)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rover @ Apr 15 2012, 04:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A mine costs 5 res. A marine standing around on a mine doing nothing isn't being useful. Lerks can spike/bile, fades can blink, onos can not care, gorges can spit. Skulks can avoid them, suicide on them, trigger them and not get killed or spend time parasiting them if you can get a large chain reaction off.
I didn't really see the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I kinda don't get the objection to marines standing on mines.
If the marine is going to stand on a mine the minute he sees me, well, good? Means he's wasting his silly time sitting on the mine while I'm going off and doing something useful, or getting into a good ambush position, or parasiting him so everyone can see him.
If a marine sits in a hallway, first thing I do, is run out again. Second thing I do is run back into LOS from a different place and parasite him, third thing I do is use that to ambush him and kill him because I know exactly where he is when he eventually gets off the mine.
If he doesn't do that, just go and do something else or wait for reinforcements, and let him sit there like a ninny while you're off towards the other end of the map.
The solution is the same as the solution is to camping in general, either overwhelm them with numbers or ignore them, or attack from a different direction.
I mean, it's not like they'd be much better if they didn't sit on the mine, it's still a hallway with mines in it, the marine still knows you're coming, and you still have to dodge them. As a rule, simply having the marine know you're coming already puts you at a disadvantage.
I don't see a problem with mines either. They cost a nice chunk of res to use, and all the aliens besides a clumsy skulk either are not killed by one mine going off or can take the dmg / use abilities to disarm them...
For marines having mines as a res spending sink means you can depoy them in areas you can't already guard easily. You put mines on resource extractors. You put mines around areas a clever skulk may run to... Placement of mines is just as much an art as a gorge dropping cysts in sneaky places. A decent player will see / hear the mines clearly and disable them and you are then down 15 res... Fades blinking over top them is one of the things that pisses me off. 15 res just gone. And onos stomping and destroying them all is pretty lamish too... and bilebomb, oh god bilebomb.
Marines standing on mines is a valid strategy. I don't find it abusive. A smart marine will mine the chokepoints and set traps for say, the fade. Stack three mines and bait a fade. It is one of the few times you may get the advantage 1v1 against a fade. Shotguns are effective but you rarely are able to land the shots to take him out... You can however get the fade to take the dmg from mines and a rifle burst, you may get him.
One idea could be mines having a "Safety distance beep" for warning marines that a mine will arm and explode if they continue standing near it. Friendly fire would effect them. Say you approach a mine... you hear "beep.....beep..beep. BEEP!" Getting more urgent warning, And on the fifth beep it explodes. For marines it would give you enough time to move away from mine you may not have noticed... But if you camp yourself on a mine it will go off after the five warning tones and hurt you. And players can still run past mines and not having team kills happening all the time from stumbling into mines. It could also sort of disarm itself when any marine is near it. For both Marines and Aliens. If a alien enters the area, it could start the warning beeps and then arm... wounding any alien or marine near the explosian.
<!--quoteo(post=1925523:date=Apr 14 2012, 09:00 PM:name=Wonderboy2402)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wonderboy2402 @ Apr 14 2012, 09:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925523"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't see a problem with mines either. They cost a nice chunk of res to use, and all the aliens besides a clumsy skulk either are not killed by one mine going off or can take the dmg / use abilities to disarm them...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
pretty much.. I hope this nerf is reconsidered it, it's wholly unnecessary and just makes the game less fun for marines
<!--quoteo(post=1925523:date=Apr 15 2012, 12:00 AM:name=Wonderboy2402)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wonderboy2402 @ Apr 15 2012, 12:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925523"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Stack three mines and bait a fade. It is one of the few times you may get the advantage 1v1 against a fade. Shotguns are effective but you rarely are able to land the shots to take him out... You can however get the fade to take the dmg from mines and a rifle burst, you may get him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so 15 pres with a standard gun and you get a 50/50 shot at killing a 50 pres lifeform? no thanks.
<!--quoteo(post=1925530:date=Apr 14 2012, 11:28 PM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Apr 14 2012, 11:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925530"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so 15 pres with a standard gun and you get a 50/50 shot at killing a 50 pres life form? no thanks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is not a 50 /50 shot. And I think everyone knows that the game is not intended to be a balanced match up between the species... a solo fade will defeat a solo marine. And by defeat I mean outright rape the marine or break away from the fight at their leisure. A marine has to keep buying mines... mines that can be easily bypassed/absorbed/targeted.
Mines only slightly modifies a 1v1 marine / fade encounter from being grossly in favor of the fade to giving a marine a chance to either fight off a fade attack leaving both players alive or if lucky empty a clip and kill it... and of course, the early game with fades marines are lucky to have even rank armor 1 when they come out. So you are either getting one shotted or a dead marine in like 2-3 quick swipes.
Personally, it remains a rarity to pull off a solo 3x mine / rifle kill and live as a marine. 75% of the time the mines are blown up harmlessly by shadowstepping or whatever and you are then left naked.... If they do rush you, the mines don't kill the fade and he will generally hit you when he comes at you and you are dead. So you might get him to 40 health after firing your weapon but you are still dead and out of the 15 res. And the fade gleefully blinks away to a gorge or someplace to heal.
Comments
Now if only there was a fair way to stop marines from de-skulking their buddy's face with a grenade.
I think this would be a more elegant solution as it allows marines to still place them around the base and kill skulks munching on IPs. without making them useless.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is a really inelegant solution for a number of reasons
1) Limitation of control freedom
2) Unintuitive boundaries and difficulty/clutter to communicate the mechanic. I dont mean just a sound, but any means you might think of to try and communicate the mechanic would be way too big of a clutter footprint imo.
3) Adds unnecessary code to deal with a problem's symptoms and not its cause, namely the pres system. With performance the way it is now, i dont think adding checks for mines in distance etc would help alot (I could be wrong) - especially when you do get mine spam.
Lets imagine in bf3 that your c4 doesn't explode when your near it. Fun? No more jihad jeeping?
If dropping mines at your feet is really such an effective strategy, just add like a 10 second arming time to them, that'd solve all problems related to in-combat mine use.
I didn't really see the problem.
I didn't really see the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wuurd up
I didn't really see the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I kinda don't get the objection to marines standing on mines.
If the marine is going to stand on a mine the minute he sees me, well, good? Means he's wasting his silly time sitting on the mine while I'm going off and doing something useful, or getting into a good ambush position, or parasiting him so everyone can see him.
If a marine sits in a hallway, first thing I do, is run out again. Second thing I do is run back into LOS from a different place and parasite him, third thing I do is use that to ambush him and kill him because I know exactly where he is when he eventually gets off the mine.
If he doesn't do that, just go and do something else or wait for reinforcements, and let him sit there like a ninny while you're off towards the other end of the map.
The solution is the same as the solution is to camping in general, either overwhelm them with numbers or ignore them, or attack from a different direction.
I mean, it's not like they'd be much better if they didn't sit on the mine, it's still a hallway with mines in it, the marine still knows you're coming, and you still have to dodge them. As a rule, simply having the marine know you're coming already puts you at a disadvantage.
For marines having mines as a res spending sink means you can depoy them in areas you can't already guard easily. You put mines on resource extractors. You put mines around areas a clever skulk may run to... Placement of mines is just as much an art as a gorge dropping cysts in sneaky places. A decent player will see / hear the mines clearly and disable them and you are then down 15 res... Fades blinking over top them is one of the things that pisses me off. 15 res just gone. And onos stomping and destroying them all is pretty lamish too... and bilebomb, oh god bilebomb.
Marines standing on mines is a valid strategy. I don't find it abusive. A smart marine will mine the chokepoints and set traps for say, the fade. Stack three mines and bait a fade. It is one of the few times you may get the advantage 1v1 against a fade. Shotguns are effective but you rarely are able to land the shots to take him out... You can however get the fade to take the dmg from mines and a rifle burst, you may get him.
One idea could be mines having a "Safety distance beep" for warning marines that a mine will arm and explode if they continue standing near it. Friendly fire would effect them. Say you approach a mine... you hear "beep.....beep..beep. BEEP!" Getting more urgent warning, And on the fifth beep it explodes. For marines it would give you enough time to move away from mine you may not have noticed... But if you camp yourself on a mine it will go off after the five warning tones and hurt you. And players can still run past mines and not having team kills happening all the time from stumbling into mines. It could also sort of disarm itself when any marine is near it. For both Marines and Aliens. If a alien enters the area, it could start the warning beeps and then arm... wounding any alien or marine near the explosian.
pretty much.. I hope this nerf is reconsidered it, it's wholly unnecessary and just makes the game less fun for marines
so 15 pres with a standard gun and you get a 50/50 shot at killing a 50 pres lifeform? no thanks.
It is not a 50 /50 shot. And I think everyone knows that the game is not intended to be a balanced match up between the species... a solo fade will defeat a solo marine. And by defeat I mean outright rape the marine or break away from the fight at their leisure. A marine has to keep buying mines... mines that can be easily bypassed/absorbed/targeted.
Mines only slightly modifies a 1v1 marine / fade encounter from being grossly in favor of the fade to giving a marine a chance to either fight off a fade attack leaving both players alive or if lucky empty a clip and kill it... and of course, the early game with fades marines are lucky to have even rank armor 1 when they come out. So you are either getting one shotted or a dead marine in like 2-3 quick swipes.
Personally, it remains a rarity to pull off a solo 3x mine / rifle kill and live as a marine. 75% of the time the mines are blown up harmlessly by shadowstepping or whatever and you are then left naked.... If they do rush you, the mines don't kill the fade and he will generally hit you when he comes at you and you are dead. So you might get him to 40 health after firing your weapon but you are still dead and out of the 15 res. And the fade gleefully blinks away to a gorge or someplace to heal.