Flamethrower is the weapon of choice for what situation?
MaximumSquid
Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
When I'm comm I never research Flamethrower
Taking it a step farther I've had people beg me Flamethrower all game and then they end up apologizing to me later
<i>(basically thanking me that I didn't listen to them)</i>
What is the weapon good for?
Can you kill a skulk / carapace skulk before it gets into melee range like the shotgun or grenade launcher can?
Does it do better DPS to stand still targets like buildings?
Can you attack a whip without getting too close to get whipped?
I was in a game where 3 marines on a ledge put their whole clip of flame into an Onos + pistol as it was running away and still didn't die
<i>(level 3 weapon upgraded at the time)</i>
I'm beginning to think that the most expensive weapon in the game is unnaturally bad
I'm also guessing that a long lasting / high damage burn effect was already discussed, tested, and removed so how about these changes?
<b>What if flamethrower ignored armor, prevented lerks from flying, and fades took extra damage if they blinked / shadowstepped while on fire?</b>
Now I feel like the thrower would definitely have a purpose as a specialty weapon instead of being the gun that makes appearances in promotional videos and nothing else
Taking it a step farther I've had people beg me Flamethrower all game and then they end up apologizing to me later
<i>(basically thanking me that I didn't listen to them)</i>
What is the weapon good for?
Can you kill a skulk / carapace skulk before it gets into melee range like the shotgun or grenade launcher can?
Does it do better DPS to stand still targets like buildings?
Can you attack a whip without getting too close to get whipped?
I was in a game where 3 marines on a ledge put their whole clip of flame into an Onos + pistol as it was running away and still didn't die
<i>(level 3 weapon upgraded at the time)</i>
I'm beginning to think that the most expensive weapon in the game is unnaturally bad
I'm also guessing that a long lasting / high damage burn effect was already discussed, tested, and removed so how about these changes?
<b>What if flamethrower ignored armor, prevented lerks from flying, and fades took extra damage if they blinked / shadowstepped while on fire?</b>
Now I feel like the thrower would definitely have a purpose as a specialty weapon instead of being the gun that makes appearances in promotional videos and nothing else
Comments
One flamethrower can hit lots of aliens, set them all on fire, severely damage their energy regeneration, and put out lots of DPS over all of the things it hits.
It's an area effect debilitating weapon, which means it stops being very good when used against single targets or if more than one is used at the same time.
Use it like you used the GL in NS1, carry one per sizeable squad of marines, use it to support them.
One flamethrower can hit lots of aliens, set them all on fire, severely damage their energy regeneration, and put out lots of DPS over all of the things it hits.
It's an area effect debilitating weapon, which means it stops being very good when used against single targets or if more than one is used at the same time.
Use it like you used the GL in NS1, carry one per sizeable squad of marines, use it to support them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From what I've seen, it's basically this. Good to use as a single support weapon in a squad of Marines mainly for the AoE energy debuff. I don't know how much it costs to research however. The problem I always see when someone researches it is people think flamethrower = omgwtfbbq damage rather than a support weapon.
You could of stopped after "...if nobody else in the group has one."
I'm not going research an expensive weapon so one person can hold it
Reduces energy regen isn't a benefit I can even dignify when you can get 1 shotted
Comparing a stackable weapon like the NS:1 GL to the Thrower isn't really something I can listen to either
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Big damage already failed balance testing, but the flamethrower is still a close range weapon in a game where the enemy team has the speed advantage
All that's left is preventing enemies from fleeing and forcing an Onos to kill multiple marines holding a throwers since it's armor ignoring ability makes it now the fastest weapon in the game for killing them
I wish the new gl was still like this, but nope. Everyone carries gl into hive rush.
Think about it - hit an Onos with flame as it runs away. Gorges and crags can't heal it for another 5-10 seconds. This gives the marines a good chance to chase the guy down, and even more importantly, it STOPS THE ONOS FROM COMING RIGHT BACK again and again and again. It slows down the pace of his attacks, giving marines a chance to regroup.
If the flamethrower isn't gonna do damage, that's fine, it it has to have some utility in return.
The flamethrower is supposed to be good at taking out infestation, right? Then why doesn't it even do useful damage to that or cysts? It's infinitely faster to use an LMG or axe - even pistol. Have the flames prohibit new cysts being placed near the one on fire. The infestation shouldn't be able to spread while it's burning.
How about vs buildings in general? Flame is 100% useless. But think about that preventing healing... aliens would have to target that marine or go down quickly - but if one or two marines trade their firepower for a non-lethal debuffing tool, the aliens have a chance to get in there and do just that.
OK, so what about when one or two marines gets inside a hive and there's only a gorge holding out? Wouldn't that destroy the gorge's usefulness? Personally, I don't think that will be a problem. A flamethrower wouldn't make it that far alone, and two marines with only one shotgun wouldn't be enough to defend themselves against alien defenders for long.
With all this, though, the visual impairment from the flames will have to be toned down. I don't really like that effect to begin with, either.
You could of stopped after "...if nobody else in the group has one."
I'm not going research an expensive weapon so one person can hold it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why? The payoff is huge if you nano/medpack that guy and his teammates can aim at the fades who aren't shadowstepping/blinking, onos who aren't attacking, lerks who aren't sporing, gorges who aren't healing and so on.
At some point in basically every game I play (that isn't ending quickly), the commander starts to float resources. That's when you grab things like flamethrowers, if you think it will be effective.
The problem for me is every time I've seen flamethrowers researched in a pub game, HALF of the team buys them immediately because they like bright shiny things that cost 30 pres. You have to only use them with disciplined players, I think.
Are flamethrowers volumetric? I know that was a big deal about not using them in the first NS and it would give them some utility.
Flamethrower is actually only for dynamic effects, the Arts! That's why it seems so expensive and unuseful to kill enemies.
Don't try to kill enemy, just give your teammates and enemies better visual effects and better k/d rates. If you die and lose 30 pres, it's not vain, you die as a temporary Picasso of Natural Selection 2, and a Gandhi of Natural Selection 2!
Flamethrower is a peace of the world, the sacrifice for the others, and the arts.
Hope you understood what i mean... it's more than a weapon, it's beauty.
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Or what about if it had a right click functionality where it should shoot the liquid propellant by itself, and when the left click happens, the entire stack ignites causing burst damage to whatever poor creature was soaked in the stuff. (0:53 in the video)
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don't forget about them helping drop whips for the gl's to spam
:)
and they are keeeeeewwwl
maybe they should put out more light when burning walls 'n seeech
You could of stopped after "...if nobody else in the group has one."
I'm not going research an expensive weapon so one person can hold it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Er, why?
It helps the team to have one mixed into an attack group, you research things for the benefit of the team. Simply because the flamethrower is an extremely p-res efficient investment (you only need one per group for maximum effectiveness) doesn't mean you shouldn't get it.
I wouldn't suggest getting it first, get some solid frontline weapons for everyone else first, but certainly get flamethrowers when onoses and fades start showing up in numbers.
<!--quoteo(post=1925632:date=Apr 15 2012, 04:16 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Apr 15 2012, 04:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1925632"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wish the new gl was still like this, but nope. Everyone carries gl into hive rush.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mm, the short fusing and short reload time combined with the smaller environments does kinda make it a rather effective weapon in groups. The NS1 GL was pretty much impossible to use against aliens because of the speed they moved and the long delay before the grenades detonated. You'd get creamed if you used more than maybe two on the team, simply because you needed HMGs to kill aliens.
I don't necessarily agree with that but I would prefer it if the grenade launcher wasn't a primary weapon, I'm fine with everyone having one, but it shouldn't be the thing you use to attack with, it should be for structure clearance and situational usage, like the NS1 hand grenade really.
Light it on fire and it can only walk away. With jetpack, you can hunt it down even easier.
My thoughts:
<ul><li>like schimmel said, make the cost of every weapon equal to 25 or even 20 and balance them around this equality.</li><li>lessen the after-burn damage on aliens and in exchange set the energy regen on burning aliens to 0.</li><li>increase the duration of burning floors or walls to make it a more useful area denial weapon.</li><li>drastically increase the damage versus buildings. But don't simply increment the damage...</li><li>increase the after-burn duration instead. So that you only have to light infestation on fire (damage it to 75%) and let it slowly burn to death over the next minute.</li></ul>
The last point is most important, as it solves more than one problem:
<ul><li>it will stop burning aliens from attacking for longer (until they get extinguished by gorge or craig) but won't kill them with the after-burn damage</li><li>it makes the gorge more useful, because he is needed for extinguishing the infestation, buildings and aliens</li><li>it lessens the (boring) interaction between players and buildings. Just light up and forget. (No need for hack and slash on a building, means more time for pewpew on aliens)</li><li>it counters the spamable nature of cysts in late game (but not just with increased cost or a hard counter, but with an active counter for the marines.)</li><li>it lessens the redundancy with the GL as anti-building-weapon. Because it is another way of killing buildings. Not instant like the GL but more devastating over long time, when you can set many buildings on fire. (BURN ALL THE THINGS! :D)</li></ul>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Flamethrower should burn spores and umbra, and prevent Whip from hitting grenades<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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+ 1
Something like this:
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Would be cool to set up traps. :)