Siege Cannons..

dooddood Join Date: 2002-11-17 Member: 9036Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Is shooting through walls fair?</div> well, Ive just come off a server where we (as aliens) were getting battered by the marines.. the reason? siege cannons. plain and simple. The marines had built so many that basically we were dying in one of our hives almost instantly.

does anyone else think they're a tad unfair?

Comments

  • Mr_BeanMr_Bean Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7943Members
    If you let them get close enough to build a TF you already lost

    A marine in HA with a HMG is worse than any Seige Cannon as the Seige won't attack you
  • QuietMischief1QuietMischief1 Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7456Members
    you let them push you back that far? it's your own fault

    don't complain, respawn, try again
  • CForresterCForrester P0rk(h0p Join Date: 2002-10-05 Member: 1439Members, Constellation
    Nope, not unfair. It's the aliens' fault for LETTING them get siege turrets in the first place. Think about it... It's over 2 or 3 minutes not couning build time to build a turret factory, upgrade it and build a siege turret. If they have time to do all that, you DESERVE to lose that hive.
  • WaffleSpoonWaffleSpoon Join Date: 2002-01-30 Member: 133Members
    Yeah, its like saying cloaking ability is unfair =/.

    The game contains soooooo many goodies, its impossible to master all, and when u meet somebody that masters a skill u dont, ofcourse it gets harder. Thats one of the biggest charms of this game. IMHO
  • TheScapegoatTheScapegoat Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7870Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Nope, not unfair. It's the aliens' fault for LETTING them get siege turrets in the first place. Think about it... It's over 2 or 3 minutes not couning build time to build a turret factory, upgrade it and build a siege turret. If they have time to do all that, you DESERVE to lose that hive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    WTF? Im sorry u cannot blame someone if all of a sudden their hive is being bombarded and say they DESERVE to lose it. Just like aliens, Marines can be pretty damn sneaky if they want to and while u think your hive is defended they can find a way. And it does not take 2-3 mins to get sieges up, if u have 3 or 4 poeple building you can get it done in 1 or 1 and a half.

    Now do i think Sieges are to powerful, hard to say, they WILL be in the 1.02 patch im sure. The reason:

    Before a Gorge could build like 8 def chambers in an area and this would stop even up to 10 seiges from doing any damage to like 6 offense chambers in the area or something. Now only 3 def chambers in an area will heal buildings, so they are going to fall pretty fast now to 1-2 seiges.

    But i feel this is going to balance the gaming pretty well other then sieges because i find it easy to win as aliens after i get 2 hives, i just build 8 def chambers and 3 offense cahmbers near marine spawn and they go fade. That = Ownage almost every single time.
  • CForresterCForrester P0rk(h0p Join Date: 2002-10-05 Member: 1439Members, Constellation
    That's why spawning aliens should be checking around the hive before they go off and do their thing. It's also another reason to build sensory chambers near every hive and defenses out in hallways and stuff near the entrances to the hive. If they have to go through lots of defenses before they can get close enough to build a siege cannon, you'll be plenty warned and able to deal with them.
  • PetruPetru Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7259Members
    Just don't let them get close enough to build Siege.
  • SinReignerSinReigner Join Date: 2002-11-17 Member: 9047Members
    edited November 2002
    <!--QuoteBegin--TheScapegoat+Nov 17 2002, 08:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheScapegoat @ Nov 17 2002, 08:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->WTF? Im sorry u cannot blame someone if all of a sudden their hive is being bombarded and say they DESERVE to lose it. Just like aliens, Marines can be pretty damn sneaky if they want to and while u think your hive is defended they can find a way. And it does not take 2-3 mins to get sieges up, if u have 3 or 4 poeple building you can get it done in 1 or 1 and a half.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    - Lol tell me about it. This 1 map(dont know the name) that has a Walkway above a hive. A Solo Marine with a jetpack (im guessing cause i joined late while hive was being attacked) got up there and made a TF with Jumpgate, Turrets and Seiges, it was damn funny. No other Alien noticed him... Also, 2-4 Marines in HMG's, HA's and Welders setting up a TF outside a base is hard to take out. Especially if the Aliens dont work together (which is hard to find too).

    I agree with some of the Seige Requests in other Threads, limited Ammo, more expensive (50-60 Resources, make them earn it <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo--> , weaker attack the more walls it has to shoot through(nice idea). Cause the Seiges are the Marines Life Blood IMO.

    And maybe as an Alien Counter Measure against Seiges, make it possible to create a Sonic Chamber. That costs like 50-60 Resources and is Very Weak. It absorbs the Seige Cannon Fire but, only 1 shot every 10-15 seconds and a Marine with an SMG can take it out with 1 clip. And it takes longer then a Resource Tower to make.

    And maybe have a Limited Angle of Fire for Seiges, Turrets have a 60 Degree Limit right? How bout a Strict 25 Degree Angle? Just a suggestion. -
  • WingWangManWingWangMan Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5856Members
    then how would you determine where the siege turret faces when you build it?
  • Mr_BeanMr_Bean Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7943Members
    Look fokes

    <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> Biiig Bad Seige

    Needs normaly four Marines to build and defend it while the turret factory goes up


    In its Currant Incation as it stands now the Wall of Lame ™

    Means one Willing Fade can stand atop five Defense Towers with six or so offensive towers and Barring THREE HMG Armed Marines ALL shooting at him he simply is healed to fast for the HMG to damage,

    Likewise without him it takes the same amount to cut through the Towers which can be stacked Willy Nilly till its 5 Hive by Two deep with Six Defense Towers Behind it for healing and effectily makes that area impassable except under Multiple(Try four) Gernade Launcher Assult

    And forget if if they have a goruge with Addrellien Healing...
  • SinReignerSinReigner Join Date: 2002-11-17 Member: 9047Members
    - I meant Vertical Limitiation. Ceiling to Floor. It can turn all the way around 360 Degrees of course. -
  • Mr_BeanMr_Bean Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7943Members
    Drat hit sumbit To early

    Anyway the only way to break through the "Wall of Lame" is Via Seige Cannons


    And as for the people asking for rasing the Cost to 50?

    Ok lets work this out, One always build Seiges in Pairs(As one can be outhealed by Defense Chambers)

    Ok 25 for the Turret Factory, 25 for the Upgrade
    50+50+50=150 hmm plus regular Turrets to Defend them, normaly three to six 150+57 or 114= 207 or 264, Or enough for Two hives and Defenses plus an extrator....

    Gee yep thats fair....

    With it is right now it costs the Commander 50+30+57= 137 On Avarage for 3 Turrets a Upgraded Turret Factory plus the pair of Sieges or enough for Nine and a half Alien Turrets

    Or if we rasied it enough for 14 and 18 Respectly

    On avarage those two Sieges and D cost more than a Hive plus some towers, Rasing the cost is not nessary(Though if realy want to do it and stick it to the Commanders 20-25 is about the Ouch Area)
  • SinReignerSinReigner Join Date: 2002-11-17 Member: 9047Members
    edited November 2002
    - Ok i guess that suggestion of 50-60 was too much. but maybe 25-30. Cause in order for a Gorge to Make a Wall of lame. It has to spend 224 Resources for 8 OC's and 8 DC's. And its rare a Gorge will clump them all up like that. But if they do, that 224 Resources goes down with 2 or even 1 seige. And it goes down even faster even with 1 soldier there with an HMG. -
  • creaping_deathcreaping_death Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8008Members
    Let think is siege turrets fair? Um let me think……yep it fair <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->


    Tried building defenses well away from your base so the have troubles getting in close to setting up very rare you don’t notice them setting up camp up close. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
    If up with in range it is not over yet until the fat lady sang <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
    Try organizing a group to rush in (hard to do some times but enough persistence in yelling and typing can get it done (hint chose your words wisely) most of them want to keep their "cool abilities and classes"
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    edited November 2002
    There is one strategie witch is nearly impossible to beat ( better, i didnt find a way right now). The marines build a siege or two in the base, then they always expand a little bit, and everytime they build siege turrets. With that all over the map you find siege cannons..... i realy DONT know how marines can have so much money, but we had nearly all ressource nodes, the marines had three and and then only two. But they build siege cannons, the marines had all Haevy Armor and HMG.... and we playd good... realy good....
  • Mr_BeanMr_Bean Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7943Members
    Prehaps Resource Bug as I found the Upgrade Turret Base +2 Seiges +3 Turrets is expensive
  • PyrrhusPyrrhus Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8980Members
    If you look at the whole picture you can say there are many unfair things on both sides. Aliens have cloaking and massive regen. They never need health or ammo if you pick the right upgrades. Marines have siege, hmgs (not that powerful IMO) and heavy armour. In the heat of battle as a fade I'll regen no matter what. But a in heavy armour, he might get dropped a health pack here there along with maybe a ammo pack, but there probly won't be a guy wielding him. Marines have to be replenished in 3 different ways, health, armour, ammo. Aliens can just sit back or scout around. And if marines can get a TF near your hive that hive is practically dead. They don't even need siege, they could just normal turret push.

    Although maybe a lower rate of fire <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Annihilator-X17Annihilator-X17 Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5664Members
    Well, one problem I've seen is there is a map with a very long walk between a hive and a close wall. This was our starting hive, and we took off expanding in the other direction, running an occasional sweep that way. Didn't see the marines get there, and they dump all their rez into putting up a pair of sieges and a jump gate there. We could barely spawn from the siege blast blowing us away. Game over.

    Another question: Why is the siege in game? It serves the same purpose as the grenade launcher, but makes marines camp more. Especially now that walls of lame have been removed. Also, the principle its based on doesn't work. It would impart some or all of the energy of the "sonic" blast into the wall its pointing at, basically not damaging the alien structure at all.

    Siege:

    1) Wallhacks. I would much rather this be turned into marine team LOS, so that you actually have to see what you're firing at.
    2) Splash killing aliens. A too large radius, never mind that if it shoots on a hive and you spawn there, its 1 hit insta kill, how nice.
    3) Use. Why is it around? Either take out the GL or take out the Siege, no point in having 2 weapons that do exactly the same thing. I would prefer to see the GL stay around, as marines might actually MOVE when they have one.
    4) Why not return the siege to what it was(A better version of the sentry)? Except have it shoot a projectile, like the acid rocket, except with very little splash (Think railgun). Would be decent at breaking fades and onos, but bad against lerks and skulks.

    Last thing, not quite related: I've seen the map crash from too many turrets. There needs to be a definite limit per TFac or per area, as aliens have.
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