Assault rifle bullet spread
.ADHd
Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146565Members
Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146565Members
<div class="IPBDescription">should help with landing shots</div>I've noticed since the beginning that the AR is perfectly accurate and the bullets do not deviate at all. At first you might think this is good, but in actuality it takes quite a bite of skill to hit a target if your bullets don't spread out a bit.
Right now the AR is the equivalent to the lightning gun in quake because it is perfectly accurate and hitscan. So, I find myself pretending that I am holding the lightning gun... the idea is to hold your crosshair perfectly on your target and hold it for a few moments.... exactly like in quake. The purpose of full auto fire is to send bullets down range in a small cone shape... maximizing your chance of hitting something and also making the AR not a pinpoint sniper weapon from 100 miles away.
I am not sure if the AR's firing mechanics are finalized but it would be nice to see a slight bullet spread in like NS1 but keep the rifle accurate... due to the large amount of bullets needed to kill something.
Right now the AR doesn't behave like a real gun would... not to say that realism = fun, but in this case it would actually help people aim a little easier.
I would say keep the pistol perfectly accurate since its the only gun in the game that is effective at long range.
Right now the AR is the equivalent to the lightning gun in quake because it is perfectly accurate and hitscan. So, I find myself pretending that I am holding the lightning gun... the idea is to hold your crosshair perfectly on your target and hold it for a few moments.... exactly like in quake. The purpose of full auto fire is to send bullets down range in a small cone shape... maximizing your chance of hitting something and also making the AR not a pinpoint sniper weapon from 100 miles away.
I am not sure if the AR's firing mechanics are finalized but it would be nice to see a slight bullet spread in like NS1 but keep the rifle accurate... due to the large amount of bullets needed to kill something.
Right now the AR doesn't behave like a real gun would... not to say that realism = fun, but in this case it would actually help people aim a little easier.
I would say keep the pistol perfectly accurate since its the only gun in the game that is effective at long range.
Comments
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9X8os2d1fg" target="_blank">Oh yeah?</a>
Can you guys explain to me how requiring <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN8D0-f1VqY" target="_blank">precise aim</a> on <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0RwTcWA8aw" target="_blank">a gun in a game</a> is a bad thing? I'm not seeing it.
The better you get, the more random bullet spread takes away from what you're trying to achieve. I guess if you're horrible and actively prevent yourself improving, you're better off with random spread to help you hit 5% of your shots or whatever, but that's about as far as you'll get when this game develops.
Great, here comes the attacks again. Better hone my k:d ratio or I'm gonna be useless again.
Also you got any other footage instead of a really old pc game with extremely simple map geometry, it's not really fair to ask the same amount of performance out of an engine in beta.
<!--quoteo(post=1928010:date=Apr 21 2012, 12:46 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Apr 21 2012, 12:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928010"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The better you get, the more random bullet spread takes away from what you're trying to achieve.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any takers..?
If you wanna hop on quake live sometime I would be glad to show you what real skillful aiming is. So before passing judgment on everything I say you should stop and think. I would love to spank you on any FPS game you can name. You said you have your own house and a sweet job? Cool... probably means you have much less time than me to spend playing videogames. Currently I am a self employed audio engineer and play videogames 12+ hours a day. So please... let's see who has a more valid opinion on this. The old man with responsibility and nothing better to do than post on forums in spite of others?... or the hardcore gamer whose life is playing videogames who has all the time in the world to refine and hone his skills. Pretty sure I know what I'm talking about grandpa.
I have played competitively in many FPS games for over half of my life. MY aiming is fine and I still get great KDR's with the current bullet ballistics. I am simply offering my opinion on what would be beneficial to the gaming community. Making it easier for marines to kill aliens by optimizing bullet spread can only help this game. I do not care what you think or judge about MY personal aim. You are a obviously a troll who lives to contradict people on internet forums.
The way the gun feels is akward and very unorthodox. One of the very first things I noticed about this game since I loaded up one of the earlier alpha builds is the bullet spread. I thought to myself "Not only does this feel bad, but it looks bad as well". I didn't like the feel of the AR. It doesn't feel believable or realistic in any way.. it feels like the dev's just left the bullet physics on default and never messed with them. Maybe they should.
Also keep in mind quake era games are over 10+ years old... adding bullet spread requires more calculations on the client and server and is a more advanced way for guns to aim in modern shooters.... just copying what worked in ancient technology seems like a scapegoat for easier bullet registry. I could be wrong and the devs may have a reason for making the AR shoot like this but I for one believe it feels and looks like old technology.
Any takers..?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about the part where requiring precise aim in the first gun used by a new player is bound to make a player frustrated for various reasons ranging from machine performance to personal skill.
I know this word is cancerous to you, but accessibility.
Games from over 10 years ago have random bullet spread because it's pretty easy to implement. That doesn't change the fact that the mechanic does not work as a crutch to help players like you want it to. It actually makes things harder for them and puts a cap on what they can do, which is why it's used to balance the power of ranged weapons (again, not to assist players).
<!--quoteo(post=1928027:date=Apr 21 2012, 01:53 AM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Apr 21 2012, 01:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928027"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about the part where requiring precise aim in the first gun used by a new player is bound to make a player frustrated for various reasons ranging from machine performance to personal skill.
I know this word is cancerous to you, but accessibility.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think accessibility is pretty important, but the premise here is that adding more random spread is good for the game because people will hit more shots for free. I don't think that's good for the game, but I also don't think there should be no random spread at all. There's a happy medium, and you don't get there by pursuing your own interest of landing more shots without changing the game's performance or getting better aim.
You don't have to be as accurate with your fire; as long as your bullet passes close enough to the target, you'll hit it. Likewise, you can still aim at it perfectly and hit every shot. If UWE wants to get creative, they could even have the expanded radius trace do less damage to symbolize "grazing" the target. Alternatively, instead of widening the traces, they could just create a second hitbox larger than the first in every way.
Then what is your stance on the firing cone of the hmg in ns1. Higher damage output and a wider cone worked wonders in shooting down flying lerks and fades. Which is nigh impossible in most circumstances in current ns2 gameplay due to room size or performance constraints. The only success seems to be when they fly in a terrible straight path or you catch them while they're roosted.
Of course they removed the hmg because it was just a <i>better</i> lmg.
I really liked the HMG in NS1 and the way it was balanced was nice. I'm hoping the minigun ends up similar at least in spirit. It wasn't a better LMG, either - the reload time and spread were both huge tradeoffs in lots of situations.
I think 'performance constraints' is the big thing to keep in mind. If/when peformance increases, this game will play completely differently without adjusting any mechanics at all, and the marines will easily come out on top.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->// 4 degrees in NS1
local kSpread = ClipWeapon.kCone3Degrees<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and in ClipWeapon.lua:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ClipWeapon.kCone3Degrees = Math.Radians(3)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so i think there is already some minor spread.
and i agree that it is a good thing for enemies which are rather close as you only need 9 bullets to kill a skulk (13 with carapace), chances are that some lucky stray bullets can finish it off (rof of rifle is rather high so the spread probably covers more area when your mouse is not moving as fast) if you already damaged it when it approached.
plus it does a good job giving it a different purpose than the snipe-oriented pistol.
If you wanna hop on quake live sometime I would be glad to show you what real skillful aiming is. So before passing judgment on everything I say you should stop and think. I would love to spank you on any FPS game you can name. You said you have your own house and a sweet job? Cool... probably means you have much less time than me to spend playing videogames. Currently I am a self employed audio engineer and play videogames 12+ hours a day. So please... let's see who has a more valid opinion on this. The old man with responsibility and nothing better to do than post on forums in spite of others?... or the hardcore gamer whose life is playing videogames who has all the time in the world to refine and hone his skills. Pretty sure I know what I'm talking about grandpa.
I have played competitively in many FPS games for over half of my life. MY aiming is fine and I still get great KDR's with the current bullet ballistics. I am simply offering my opinion on what would be beneficial to the gaming community. Making it easier for marines to kill aliens by optimizing bullet spread can only help this game. I do not care what you think or judge about MY personal aim. You are a obviously a troll who lives to contradict people on internet forums.
The way the gun feels is akward and very unorthodox. One of the very first things I noticed about this game since I loaded up one of the earlier alpha builds is the bullet spread. I thought to myself "Not only does this feel bad, but it looks bad as well". I didn't like the feel of the AR. It doesn't feel believable or realistic in any way.. it feels like the dev's just left the bullet physics on default and never messed with them. Maybe they should.
Also keep in mind quake era games are over 10+ years old... adding bullet spread requires more calculations on the client and server and is a more advanced way for guns to aim in modern shooters.... just copying what worked in ancient technology seems like a scapegoat for easier bullet registry. I could be wrong and the devs may have a reason for making the AR shoot like this but I for one believe it feels and looks like old technology.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Update: we settled this like gentlemen in quake, and it was determined that adhd has higher overall accuracy on his account in FFA than I do in duel. Also he got destroyed by a 23 year old grandpa.
This relates to NS2 in the following way:
___________________________________________________
Come at me
EDIT: Ahah, right, censorship.
EDIT: Ahah, right, censorship.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you play QL?
Not sure how anyone can say increasing the spread makes it easier to land hits, just means you need to get luckier to hit. While it does allow hits to maybe occur when you would ordinarily miss, you generally end up missing way more hits that you should be hitting.
Also the pistol's primary fire is not 100% accurate, only the secondary fire is.
Do you prefer cheese or ham sandwiches?
I don't make a habit of eating either one, but I'll go with ham.
Do you play QL?
Do you play QL?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope, do you prefer coffee or tea? <!--coloro:#212121--><span style="color:#212121"><!--/coloro-->Keeping it just as relevant.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Tea of course. Coffee is gross.
Do you play QL? The question <i>is </i>relevant because this thread is about QL grudge matches now, since the original topic was silly.
It's okay to answer 'no.'
Do you play QL? The question <i>is </i>relevant because this thread is about QL grudge matches now, since the original topic was silly.
It's okay to answer 'no.'<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can't we make it about food in stead?
Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's silly.
Obviously if we had a 1px diameter of where the bullet was going to go, the skill cap for the game would be great. As having a random spread at a radius larger than a pixel would decrease the amount of skill the game requires. And the game should be a competitive high k:d club as allowing players of any skill level to play the game would be disastrous to the community and the success of the game.
Obviously if we had a 1px diameter of where the bullet was going to go, the skill cap for the game would be great. As having a random spread at a radius larger than a pixel would decrease the amount of skill the game requires. And the game should be a competitive high k:d club as allowing players of any skill level to play the game would be disastrous to the community and the success of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is why the topic is silly. Just like 90% of the threads on this forum, you expect everyone to praise your ideas. When they don't, you get your back up and start putting words in their mouth.
I haven't mentioned KDR once in this thread, and I agreed that accessibility is important. That doesn't mean I agree with everything you've said.
Also, the LMG already has spread in this game (as laosh'ra showed you) so the premise of the thread isn't even true.
Come at me bro0o0o0o0
Isn't my idea.
I guess I'm at fault for trying to keep a thread relevant to the topic instead of derailing the conversation into a quake live match thread. Which hypocritically is untrue due to mostly attacking you the rest of the time.
I still would like the radius to be increased or allow more grazing shots for the lerk, but my inability to get above 10fps during a firefight with 2-3 lerks in tram blinds my reasoning.
Some debug tools for hitreg etc would be nice too so we can start some tests...
Can you guys explain to me how requiring <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN8D0-f1VqY" target="_blank">precise aim</a> on <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0RwTcWA8aw" target="_blank">a gun in a game</a> is a bad thing? I'm not seeing it.
The better you get, the more random bullet spread takes away from what you're trying to achieve. I guess if you're horrible and actively prevent yourself improving, you're better off with random spread to help you hit 5% of your shots or whatever, but that's about as far as you'll get when this game develops.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This assumes you have a fully functioning game engine with optimized netcode - which NS2 doesnt have at the moment.
Hitting flying characters in Q3 is (imho) quite easier than hitting a Lerk at the current state of the game.