Instead of making buildings invisible, why not create fake buildings? The shade could create decoy buildings to confuse the marines instead. Aliens could do deceptive expansion, like putting a decoy hive on one side of the map, only to make a real hive on the other side.
You could also make 1 real whip and 3 fakes whip to slow down marines progress, while they believe they're fighting against 4 whips instead of a real one. The shade could have a limit of decoys(to not spam the map of decoys), that the Khamm can build and recycle like the Gorge do with its Hydra.
Maybe the Khamm could even have a decoy Alien that he could only move on infestation. Let's say a fake Fade, that he can control (like the ARCs), but doesn't do any damage. It will exist only to scare marines, slow them down and make them waste bullets.
I think the decoy should not be illusions, but more like a shell of a building. It would be similar to a real building, but with reduced health (something like 30% of normal health) and without any functionality.
@Bobrun: Sounds like the Shade's Hallucinations ability: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Shade" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Shade</a>
I don't think, that showing the health of marines would be a real option against carapace. The old active ability of the shade to cloak aliens wasn't that bad or imba. It was just a pain i.t.a. for the commander to activate it every minute. So <b>why not making the normal cloak upgrade actually useful and a considerable option against carapace?</b><ul><li>After evolving the cloak upgrade, aliens remain cloaked even when moving at full speed.</li><li>The faster the alien moves the more visible it gets. (but only wraith-like)</li><li>If attacking or attacked they get completely visible for 3 seconds.</li></ul> A running alien should be visible enough to be detectable by a marine, but more difficult to shoot at. The sound of footsteps helps the marines to get warned of near aliens. As soon as the alien stops it should get nearly invisible instantly. This way it is finally useful in the fast paced alien play style.
Another upgrade and new feature (maybe it was already in NS1? I don't remember.) is <b>Feign Death</b>. To make it actually useful and an option it should be like:<ul><li>Rag-doll the player after he received 25% - 50% of damage.</li><li>When the player hit the jump button, he is back to life. (The rag-doll moves back in an animation to the standard stance.)</li><li>While feigning death, the alien only receives 10% of the damage inflicted to him.</li><li>This upgrade only works once every 30sec <u>or</u> to recharge it, you have to heal up to full health.</li><li>The time for rag-dolls to lay around after death should be increased to 10 or 20 seconds.</li></ul>
For the <b>passive cloak ability of the shade</b>, I like the idea of:<ul><li>Keeping buildings invisible even when hit with bullets (not melee and does not count for the shade itself).</li><li>No hit indicator or blood-splatter either.</li><li>cysts AND infestation get cloaked.</li><li>the ability to obscure marine view / sound should be toggle-able. (Maybe even energy reliant?)</li></ul>
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1938594:date=May 24 2012, 01:11 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ May 24 2012, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1938594"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think, that showing the health of marines would be a real option against carapace. The old active ability of the shade to cloak aliens wasn't that bad or imba. It was just a pain i.t.a. for the commander to activate it every minute. So <b>why not making the normal cloak upgrade actually useful and a considerable option against carapace?</b><ul><li>After evolving the cloak upgrade, aliens remain cloaked even when moving at full speed.</li><li>The faster the alien moves the more visible it gets. (but only wraith-like)</li><li>If attacking or attacked they get completely visible for 3 seconds.</li></ul>
A running alien should be visible enough to be detectable by a marine, but more difficult to shoot at. The sound of footsteps helps the marines to get warned of near aliens. As soon as the alien stops it should get nearly invisible instantly. This way it is finally useful in the fast paced alien play style.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another upgrade and new feature (maybe it was already in NS1? I don't remember.) is <b>Feign Death</b>. To make it actually useful and an option it should be like:<ul><li>Rag-doll the player after he received 25% - 50% of damage.</li><li>When the player hit the jump button, he is back to life. (The rag-doll moves back in an animation to the standard stance.)</li><li>While feigning death, the alien only receives 10% of the damage inflicted to him.</li><li>This upgrade only works once every 30sec <u>or</u> to recharge it, you have to heal up to full health.</li><li>The time for rag-dolls to lay around after death should be increased to 10 or 20 seconds.</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've thought about a feign death evolution. I think it would be somewhat difficult to implement properly.
For the <b>passive cloak ability of the shade</b>, I like the idea of:<ul><li>Keeping buildings invisible even when hit with bullets (not melee and does not count for the shade itself).</li><li>cysts AND infestation get cloaked.</li><li>...</li><li>the ability to obscure marine view / sound should be toggle-able.</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I strongly agree with these suggestions.
I noticed that evolving alien embryos are not cloaked by Shades. Could that be changed?
In addition, I think Hallucinations should release vision impairing ink clouds upon death, to punish marines who allow them to get too close.
<!--quoteo(post=1938493:date=May 23 2012, 09:00 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ May 23 2012, 09:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1938493"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->absolutely LOVING this idea.
to those that know/love the hidden source mod.... i so want to make a hidden spark mod. :-D it would be so little work..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I always thought UWE should make "The Hidden 2" after NS2. The Engine seems to be perfect for it. :)
I am all for aliens being able to tell when marines are injured or near death. It makes sense not only as something aliens could probably do anyway, but from a gameplay perspective as well.
It's an elegant, and subtle game mechanic that encourages teamwork.
Shades need to be stealthy themselves. They are self defeating right now. Its suppose to hide structures through cloaking, so it can't go around announcing itself by giving marines trippy vision (and in the past with the creepy carnival music). Plus cloaked structures ghost in and out anyway, but it doesn't matter since shooting around the room reveals everything.
The shades passive could still cloak buildings themselves, but remove the trippy vision and ghosting. I like the idea that shooting cloaked buildings doesn't uncloak them, unless you shoot the shade it self. Silence them as well while cloaked, so marines don't hear the screams. It still going to be very obvious that there is a hive or harvester there, since you can still walk up to the node to check easy enough. However it will better at hiding crags, eggs and research buildings (and shifts).
Ink cloud is the triggered ability and maybe incorporate the hallucinations with it. Once triggered, the shade releases an black "ink could" that obscures the shade and small area around it for a few seconds. The point is not to obscure marine vision, but act as a screen for what happens next. While the ink cloud is released and lingers, the shade spawns a few random hallucinations... fake skulks, fades, ect... These attack the nearest marines, do no damage and last for 30 seconds <u>regardless </u>of taking damage... but go transparent for a few seconds when taking damage to notify the players its fake. If no marines are around, the alien comms can control them as they can now. So it can be used both defensively or offensively as a smoke screen.
As for the targeted ability, what if the shade <i>disorients </i>the marine via '<i>telepathy mind-control</i>' or whatever. It cloaks and silences every alien structure and alien player a targeted marine player (or players if an AoE...scales better) would normally see for 10 secs or so...even if he shoots it. Its broken upon the marine player taking damage. The mind-controlled player should be identifiable by the aliens, so if one of two marines is affected, aliens can gang up on the unaffected one. Would be neato if mind controlled players still see hallucinations.
Comments
You could also make 1 real whip and 3 fakes whip to slow down marines progress, while they believe they're fighting against 4 whips instead of a real one. The shade could have a limit of decoys(to not spam the map of decoys), that the Khamm can build and recycle like the Gorge do with its Hydra.
Maybe the Khamm could even have a decoy Alien that he could only move on infestation. Let's say a fake Fade, that he can control (like the ARCs), but doesn't do any damage. It will exist only to scare marines, slow them down and make them waste bullets.
I think the decoy should not be illusions, but more like a shell of a building. It would be similar to a real building, but with reduced health (something like 30% of normal health) and without any functionality.
The old active ability of the shade to cloak aliens wasn't that bad or imba. It was just a pain i.t.a. for the commander to activate it every minute.
So <b>why not making the normal cloak upgrade actually useful and a considerable option against carapace?</b><ul><li>After evolving the cloak upgrade, aliens remain cloaked even when moving at full speed.</li><li>The faster the alien moves the more visible it gets. (but only wraith-like)</li><li>If attacking or attacked they get completely visible for 3 seconds.</li></ul>
A running alien should be visible enough to be detectable by a marine, but more difficult to shoot at. The sound of footsteps helps the marines to get warned of near aliens. As soon as the alien stops it should get nearly invisible instantly. This way it is finally useful in the fast paced alien play style.
Another upgrade and new feature (maybe it was already in NS1? I don't remember.) is <b>Feign Death</b>. To make it actually useful and an option it should be like:<ul><li>Rag-doll the player after he received 25% - 50% of damage.</li><li>When the player hit the jump button, he is back to life. (The rag-doll moves back in an animation to the standard stance.)</li><li>While feigning death, the alien only receives 10% of the damage inflicted to him.</li><li>This upgrade only works once every 30sec <u>or</u> to recharge it, you have to heal up to full health.</li><li>The time for rag-dolls to lay around after death should be increased to 10 or 20 seconds.</li></ul>
For the <b>passive cloak ability of the shade</b>, I like the idea of:<ul><li>Keeping buildings invisible even when hit with bullets (not melee and does not count for the shade itself).</li><li>No hit indicator or blood-splatter either.</li><li>cysts AND infestation get cloaked.</li><li>the ability to obscure marine view / sound should be toggle-able. (Maybe even energy reliant?)</li></ul>
The old active ability of the shade to cloak aliens wasn't that bad or imba. It was just a pain i.t.a. for the commander to activate it every minute.
So <b>why not making the normal cloak upgrade actually useful and a considerable option against carapace?</b><ul><li>After evolving the cloak upgrade, aliens remain cloaked even when moving at full speed.</li><li>The faster the alien moves the more visible it gets. (but only wraith-like)</li><li>If attacking or attacked they get completely visible for 3 seconds.</li></ul>
A running alien should be visible enough to be detectable by a marine, but more difficult to shoot at. The sound of footsteps helps the marines to get warned of near aliens. As soon as the alien stops it should get nearly invisible instantly. This way it is finally useful in the fast paced alien play style.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would love to see that happen.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->(Continued)
Another upgrade and new feature (maybe it was already in NS1? I don't remember.) is <b>Feign Death</b>. To make it actually useful and an option it should be like:<ul><li>Rag-doll the player after he received 25% - 50% of damage.</li><li>When the player hit the jump button, he is back to life. (The rag-doll moves back in an animation to the standard stance.)</li><li>While feigning death, the alien only receives 10% of the damage inflicted to him.</li><li>This upgrade only works once every 30sec <u>or</u> to recharge it, you have to heal up to full health.</li><li>The time for rag-dolls to lay around after death should be increased to 10 or 20 seconds.</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've thought about a feign death evolution. I think it would be somewhat difficult to implement properly.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->(Continued)
For the <b>passive cloak ability of the shade</b>, I like the idea of:<ul><li>Keeping buildings invisible even when hit with bullets (not melee and does not count for the shade itself).</li><li>cysts AND infestation get cloaked.</li><li>...</li><li>the ability to obscure marine view / sound should be toggle-able.</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I strongly agree with these suggestions.
I noticed that evolving alien embryos are not cloaked by Shades. Could that be changed?
In addition, I think Hallucinations should release vision impairing ink clouds upon death, to punish marines who allow them to get too close.
to those that know/love the hidden source mod.... i so want to make a hidden spark mod. :-D it would be so little work..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I always thought UWE should make "The Hidden 2" after NS2. The Engine seems to be perfect for it. :)
It's an elegant, and subtle game mechanic that encourages teamwork.
The shades passive could still cloak buildings themselves, but remove the trippy vision and ghosting. I like the idea that shooting cloaked buildings doesn't uncloak them, unless you shoot the shade it self. Silence them as well while cloaked, so marines don't hear the screams. It still going to be very obvious that there is a hive or harvester there, since you can still walk up to the node to check easy enough. However it will better at hiding crags, eggs and research buildings (and shifts).
Ink cloud is the triggered ability and maybe incorporate the hallucinations with it. Once triggered, the shade releases an black "ink could" that obscures the shade and small area around it for a few seconds. The point is not to obscure marine vision, but act as a screen for what happens next. While the ink cloud is released and lingers, the shade spawns a few random hallucinations... fake skulks, fades, ect... These attack the nearest marines, do no damage and last for 30 seconds <u>regardless </u>of taking damage... but go transparent for a few seconds when taking damage to notify the players its fake. If no marines are around, the alien comms can control them as they can now. So it can be used both defensively or offensively as a smoke screen.
As for the targeted ability, what if the shade <i>disorients </i>the marine via '<i>telepathy mind-control</i>' or whatever. It cloaks and silences every alien structure and alien player a targeted marine player (or players if an AoE...scales better) would normally see for 10 secs or so...even if he shoots it. Its broken upon the marine player taking damage. The mind-controlled player should be identifiable by the aliens, so if one of two marines is affected, aliens can gang up on the unaffected one. Would be neato if mind controlled players still see hallucinations.