Hypermutation Exploit
ssjsonic1
Join Date: 2012-03-13 Member: 148729Members
Join Date: 2012-03-13 Member: 148729Members
Admittedly, I haven't played B209 yet, but how are the developers going to address this exploit?
Onos is close to dying near enemy base, runs around the corner, and quickly devolves into a skulk just in time to receive all of his spent resources back before death. He can now go Onos again after respawning.
Implement a short delay before resources are returned? Increase skulk evolution time? No resources returned if health is less than X%?
Onos is close to dying near enemy base, runs around the corner, and quickly devolves into a skulk just in time to receive all of his spent resources back before death. He can now go Onos again after respawning.
Implement a short delay before resources are returned? Increase skulk evolution time? No resources returned if health is less than X%?
Comments
Can you describe me a situation where it would be the best option to change your upgrade to hypermutation and devolve to a lesser lifeform? I can't come up with any.
True but i think the effect seems unintuitive to the point of the OP labelling it an exploit. It might also be a bit powerful if you ask me as it allows non-stop onosing and might encourage bad play.
I hope it works this way! Also, a more intuitive realization for the player (and having the same effect) is to never give back resources, but rather dynamically change the cost for the lifeforms as you evolve between them.
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An example for adapting to a situation would be killing as Fade. Evolving to gorge to bile bomb. Then returning to Fade.
NS2 is supposed to have trade-offs so that one lifeform isn't always better than the others. If being joined by 5 of the same species, you may want to go down to Lerk or Gorge temporarily for support. But yes, as of B209 I'd take 6 Onos over any combination of other lifeforms.
1. Players can choose several upgrades from each chamber -- for example combining carapace with regen. The NS1 system of only allowing one upgrade from each chamber made for more interesting choices and consequences in my opinion.
2. Players can swap upgrades later on in the game if they decide they didn't like the one they initially picked. I would prefer locking players to their initial choice, for the same reasoning as in point 1 above.
3. You don't lose your hypermutated res when you die (I haven't actually tried hypermutation yet, so this may be wrong, but from reading the posts here this is my understanding of how it works).
seriously tho, hypermutaion sounds like a neat idea, but it seems like it will really hard to balance once it gets taken advantage of properly
Nobody who posted here has tried it yet, from what I can tell.
Somebody try this.
- Reimplementation of res cost on lifeform upgrades, with some upgrades like camouflage or silence costing less than 'more powerful' ones like say carapace. (flat out buffs vs trade-off buffs) In addition, upgrades on skulk should be much cheaper than on for example the fade and onos (So it's going to be up to the player to decide if he wants to invest that res) This will also address the issue that is all players being able to go higher lifeforms at the same time, since it will further differentiate player p.res amounts and timings.
- Research scaling for the alien commander, this way there's bigger and tougher choices to be made, make the second shell/veil/shift cost more than the first (or even better the second upgrade from those structures, rather than the structure itself, cost more than the first) This way the trade-off becomes stronger, do you go for carapace first and then get the more expensive regen later? Or do you skip regen for now and invest in the relatively cheaper celerity.
In regards to the OP, I think they should just slow 're-evolving', make the speed based on the lifeform you came from rather than on the lifeform you're evolving to. I.e Onos to skulk would be slower than Skulk to onos. It's an interesting mechanic imo, I hope they stick with it and find a way to make it work. (Bringing back costs on lifeform upgrades would help with hypermutation as well imo)
Yeah, this is what I meant, I just couldn't put it into words properly. Second attempt:
If you use hypermutation to devolve into a cheaper lifeform, the excess res is refunded to you. You don't lose that res when you die as the lower tier lifeform. That's what enables the particular exploit suggested by the OP.
Again; this is just how I've understood it works from posts on this forum. I haven't had a chance to test it out yet, so please correct me if it is wrong.
I think harsher consequences for choices, making for more difficult choices, makes for more interesting gameplay than just aiming for "the largest possible amount of lifeform upgrade variety".
For example, once the individual aliens go down a certain upgrade path, the marines should be able to, at least partially, counter it by picking certain weapons or a certain playing style. That doesn't work as well when the aliens can switch out their upgrades on a whim.
You are refunded the res when you're finished devolving from your previous lifeform. If you're a gorge, a lerk will only cost 20 to evolve to with hypermutation. If you're a lerk and you go gorge, you are refunded 20 pres when you hatch (maybe 2 seconds).
After you evolve. But going back to skulk is pretty fast anyways.
But I like this change, I think it will bring more to the alien gameplay, maybe we need to try it out more, and balance it in other ways.
Sounds like redemption, except it requires skill. What was the exploit again?
Also, I agree with fana that upgrades should be locked, regardless of hypermutation.
1. Players can choose several upgrades from each chamber -- for example combining carapace with regen. The NS1 system of only allowing one upgrade from each chamber made for more interesting choices and consequences in my opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While NS1 ended up being pretty limited on viable upgrades (fades for example), I'd really like to see the basic carried over to NS2. If you're going to have masses of lifeforms, it might be a good idea to force some specialization on them. With higher lifeform counts you're also going to have more flexibility with your upgrade picks as the whole team doesn't depend on a single lifeform filling a role.
I thought it would be that the more times you evolved into a lerk it got cheaper ie 1st time is say 30, next time 28, 26 etc. If you die as skulk it resets as would evolving into a different alien.
I just dont see it being any use in pubs..I might be able to accept a small benefit in clan games..but even then it would be only 1 or 2 players not most of the team that could benefit.
Imagine an Onos being chased off, morphing into a Lerk and then flying down a vent to safety.
Or a Lerk flying into a base and then morphing into an Onos xD
Now that would be cool, and balanced. As long as you evolve to a higher life form you can morph into any below it.
Not sure how you'd 'quick switch' to other lifeforms though. Perhaps you can select another lifeform in the buy menu that you can switch to with a 'quick switch' key. Shift?
The aliens playstyle imo is brutal and anything but sophisticated.
Whenever i evolve into something I do it to get an edge on the battlefield and stick with it till I die.
Now with this new ability the aliens are turning into shape-shifters which I think does not fit them at all.
It's like chasing an onos around a corner and finding a gorge or skulk. It just doesn't feel right.
I think this takes away teamplay. Onos that rush into a base unsupported should be punished for it, not be able to turn tail and flee by going skulk. I loved the gorge-onos rush. Or the lerk-skulk herassment. But with players changing lifeforms so fast this pretty much vanishes.
I guess i'll just endure these patches and see what UWE makes of it. In UWE I trust!
If you play an FPS you want to kill the other players who are represented by their characters. Now it's like 'I killed the player who was using the lerk move' not 'I killed a lerk!'.
Look at most sci-fi films that have shape shifters. What they have in common is the shape shifter has an innate form which is usually revealed when it's dead or wounded.
They do that because it's impossible for audiences to keep caring about a character that is never the same. I know NS2 is a video game but video games are full of dramatic tension and even online multi player FPS games have stories which the players create themselves in each round.
I don't see it as a problem with onos, it's relatively difficult to get away (unless you have celerity i guess, but that's sacrificing 2 upgrades for some insurance). It seems more practical for fades with low health and stuck in a poor spot
As it is now, you can use hypermutation to go lerk -> fade -> onos, then ditch it for a better upgrade after you're done evolving each individual lifeform. There's no opportunity cost with using it now.