<!--quoteo(post=1941015:date=Jun 2 2012, 03:18 AM:name=StarFly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StarFly @ Jun 2 2012, 03:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941015"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@developers:please disable Celerity on non-infestation<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Now there's something worth trying. I'd be perfectly fine with the added thrill of watching for super speed while attacking a hive.
<!--quoteo(post=1941068:date=Jun 2 2012, 07:14 AM:name=Mendasp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mendasp @ Jun 2 2012, 07:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941068"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And since the game is 90% about combat, all upgrades should be focused on this as the players will always favor combat advantages over everything else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#aadd00--><span style="color:#aadd00"><!--/coloro-->Pretty much this.. as soon as you get it nerfed to the point it really is only travel somehow, people will stop using it likely aside from fringe cases once the "new" feeling is gone. We'll be back to crag only/always first and I cannot tell you how much I hate this, it takes a lot of the life out of the tech tree.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
but but think about the backwards turbo gorges.. noooo....!
Seriously in terms of combat, i find celerity forces you to use marines as road blocks to avoid horrible overshoot due to limited air control so as gorgeous said, its gimmicky and doesn't add much depth to marine vs skulk.
<!--quoteo(post=1941015:date=Jun 2 2012, 04:18 AM:name=StarFly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StarFly @ Jun 2 2012, 04:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941015"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Celerity should just works on infestation.Celerity is a travelevolution and no a "superfastskulkattackevolution" With Celerity its easier to travel between hives.
@developers:please disable Celerity on non-infestation<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That might be worth trying out, though it at the current speed of 15 it would still make combat on infestation ridiculously hard for marines. I'm unsure as to whether it's the mechanic of b209 celerity or the benefit for some lifeforms (~+100% for skulks) that is overpowered.
*For gorge, numbers in parathesis are spiked to when belly sliding on flat ground.<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
The skulk has huge gains from celerity because he can walljump up to 16+ speed easily while using celerity. The skulk also retains the walljumping momentum as if he had been jumping at these 16 speeds when entering combat, so he still goes 12 or 14+ speed after biting, assuming he maintains his wall jumping. The gorge actually loses speed bellysliding at top celerity speeds. The lerk gains minimal speed, but 180 mobility. The fade gains because shadow step does not break celerity. The onos gains insane maneuverability so he can move around the map at 12-14 speeds even around tight corners.
<!--quoteo(post=1941056:date=Jun 2 2012, 03:28 PM:name=rantology)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rantology @ Jun 2 2012, 03:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941056"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then again if they did something like that you'd probably want celerity to be toggle-able and that would make things unnecessarily complicated I guess. It's probably best they re-design it :/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Tap the walk key is easy enough.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited June 2012
I don't typically speak for everyone, but based on past feedback i believe everyone does hate slow on hit, no matter what bonus comes with it. Its frustrating and jarring, and becomes about who sees who first and when only one side is melee, well, it can be easily biased.
oldassgamersJoin Date: 2011-02-02Member: 80033Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1941068:date=Jun 2 2012, 02:14 PM:name=Mendasp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mendasp @ Jun 2 2012, 02:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941068"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Celerity should just give you like +2 speed (or whatever the value is right) over your normal speed and that's it, no matter how hard you try, if you give a ridiculous speed bonus it's obviously going to be used as an advantage for combat no matter how hard you wish people don't do it. And the current celerity is so absurd it's not even funny.
And since the game is 90% about combat, all upgrades should be focused on this as the players will always favor combat advantages over everything else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I Agree to 100 % !!!!!!!!!
People dont want the current celerity, because we want to use an upgrade for combat and combat only. A crag hive always goes first because shift is pointless because of it not being combat effective enough.
People dont want the current celerity, because we want to use an upgrade for combat and combat only. A crag hive always goes first because shift is pointless because of it not being combat effective enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have seen celerity used as 1st upgrade on many occasions over many games since the latest patch, no longer are aliens always going cara first. Most of which the aliens did go with celerity we went on to win, not only that early game map control was a lot easier. Celerity means as I skulk I can get into combat with a marine and not die as I try to run/jump down a hall.
One major aspect of combat is getting there, aliens without celerity suck at this..which is why carapace was so popular (it boosted armor and health meaning skulks could take more hits and get within striking distance). Celerity offers an alternative to a tough skulk for getting into combat and as a result an alternative 1st hive...after all I am sure we all want to have more than 1 option.
Finally I now see skulks running around at the end as a viable lifeform and not just target practice, sure they struggle to get more than 1 kill but even getting in close for 1 bite in is a huge win for a skulk late in game, which is crucial for xeno to be of any use.
Ironhorse, you say it is a case of who see's who first and with only one side being melee it can be biased. How is it any different to normal where its a case of who sees who first when one is ranged and has a distinct advantage?
<!--quoteo(post=1941185:date=Jun 3 2012, 12:10 AM:name=hakenspit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hakenspit @ Jun 3 2012, 12:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941185"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How is it any different to normal where its a case of who sees who first when one is ranged and has a distinct advantage?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
carapace continues working after you get shot, where celerity does not
<!--quoteo(post=1941192:date=Jun 3 2012, 05:13 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jun 3 2012, 05:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1941192"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Haken, i was replying to the person who brought up "slow on hit", not celerity, just fyi.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ok sorry my mistake, ignore the question as it not relevant :)
yeah the slow on hits a strange one, initially I felt it was a little clunky as times gone on I have felt its less clunky and do like the higher speed boosts it allows for. Its increase and sudden decrease has certainly been the hardest part to get used to.
I dont mind losing my increased speed when I take a hit, means I cant simply run in a straight line...need to deviate some (but not necessarily like a rabbit on an speed bender). Also makes fleeing harder as aliens as any shots in the back slow you down.
Ironhorse you got me all wrong, Im not just talking about slow on hit.
What im trying to suggest is the only speed you lose when you get hit is your bonus speed you had from celerity. You dont actually lose any of your default speed.
One of the problems is that you don't actually lose your bonus celerity speed as a skulk if you've been doing wall jumps. You can keep your entire momentum as if you've been doing 14+ speed wall jumps even after entering combat, getting hit, or biting. Another is that 14 speed is entirely too fast.
And skulks really don't have that much of a problem entering melee combat with a marine. That's the entire skill part. If you're better than a marine, you can ambush, flank, or distract groups while your teammates hit from behind. Having a free, skill free gap closer because the kham went shift hive is not a benefit for gameplay. It actually dumbs down gameplay and makes skulks even more into rushing zerglings.
Last patch they were seemingly trying to tone that down by nerfing the skulk movement speed during wall jumps and air control, but celerity takes no skill to use and is even faster than the previous skill based movement!
Comments
Now there's something worth trying. I'd be perfectly fine with the added thrill of watching for super speed while attacking a hive.
<!--coloro:#aadd00--><span style="color:#aadd00"><!--/coloro-->Pretty much this.. as soon as you get it nerfed to the point it really is only travel somehow, people will stop using it likely aside from fringe cases once the "new" feeling is gone. We'll be back to crag only/always first and I cannot tell you how much I hate this, it takes a lot of the life out of the tech tree.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Seriously in terms of combat, i find celerity forces you to use marines as road blocks to avoid horrible overshoot due to limited air control so as gorgeous said, its gimmicky and doesn't add much depth to marine vs skulk.
With Celerity its easier to travel between hives.
@developers:please disable Celerity on non-infestation<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That might be worth trying out, though it at the current speed of 15 it would still make combat on infestation ridiculously hard for marines. I'm unsure as to whether it's the mechanic of b209 celerity or the benefit for some lifeforms (~+100% for skulks) that is overpowered.
Here's some numbers for b209 celerity:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--> BASE, CELERITY, %GAIN
Skulk 7 14 100
Gorge* 5(10) 14(-) 180
Lerk 11 14 27
Fade ~5.8 14 141
Onos ~5.5 14 155
*For gorge, numbers in parathesis are spiked to when belly sliding on flat ground.<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
The skulk has huge gains from celerity because he can walljump up to 16+ speed easily while using celerity. The skulk also retains the walljumping momentum as if he had been jumping at these 16 speeds when entering combat, so he still goes 12 or 14+ speed after biting, assuming he maintains his wall jumping. The gorge actually loses speed bellysliding at top celerity speeds. The lerk gains minimal speed, but 180 mobility. The fade gains because shadow step does not break celerity. The onos gains insane maneuverability so he can move around the map at 12-14 speeds even around tight corners.
Celerity is far too good.
Similar to having the wind knocked out of you
I feel people would take more caution if the risk for error was higher.
And since the game is 90% about combat, all upgrades should be focused on this as the players will always favor combat advantages over everything else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I Agree to 100 % !!!!!!!!!
People dont want the current celerity, because we want to use an upgrade for combat and combat only. A crag hive always goes first because shift is pointless because of it not being combat effective enough.
People dont want the current celerity, because we want to use an upgrade for combat and combat only. A crag hive always goes first because shift is pointless because of it not being combat effective enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have seen celerity used as 1st upgrade on many occasions over many games since the latest patch, no longer are aliens always going cara first.
Most of which the aliens did go with celerity we went on to win, not only that early game map control was a lot easier.
Celerity means as I skulk I can get into combat with a marine and not die as I try to run/jump down a hall.
One major aspect of combat is getting there, aliens without celerity suck at this..which is why carapace was so popular (it boosted armor and health meaning skulks could take more hits and get within striking distance).
Celerity offers an alternative to a tough skulk for getting into combat and as a result an alternative 1st hive...after all I am sure we all want to have more than 1 option.
Finally I now see skulks running around at the end as a viable lifeform and not just target practice, sure they struggle to get more than 1 kill but even getting in close for 1 bite in is a huge win for a skulk late in game, which is crucial for xeno to be of any use.
Ironhorse, you say it is a case of who see's who first and with only one side being melee it can be biased.
How is it any different to normal where its a case of who sees who first when one is ranged and has a distinct advantage?
carapace continues working after you get shot, where celerity does not
Ok sorry my mistake, ignore the question as it not relevant :)
yeah the slow on hits a strange one, initially I felt it was a little clunky as times gone on I have felt its less clunky and do like the higher speed boosts it allows for.
Its increase and sudden decrease has certainly been the hardest part to get used to.
I dont mind losing my increased speed when I take a hit, means I cant simply run in a straight line...need to deviate some (but not necessarily like a rabbit on an speed bender).
Also makes fleeing harder as aliens as any shots in the back slow you down.
What im trying to suggest is the only speed you lose when you get hit is your bonus speed you had from celerity. You dont actually lose any of your default speed.
And skulks really don't have that much of a problem entering melee combat with a marine. That's the entire skill part. If you're better than a marine, you can ambush, flank, or distract groups while your teammates hit from behind. Having a free, skill free gap closer because the kham went shift hive is not a benefit for gameplay. It actually dumbs down gameplay and makes skulks even more into rushing zerglings.
Last patch they were seemingly trying to tone that down by nerfing the skulk movement speed during wall jumps and air control, but celerity takes no skill to use and is even faster than the previous skill based movement!
Not build-up over time..