Feature Request
NurEinMensch
Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
Comments
#1 Now that we try to do the patchnote videos to go along with the patch reveal, that takes extra time to get that all together.
#2 We realized that it actually works out better for people to discover changes on their own initially, and actually play them before passing judgement. Typically people read the patchnotes first, and come on and start posting all their problems with the changes, before even giving them a chance in an actual game.
--Cory
Posting critique just from reading the patch notes should still be useful. Somehow it always gets ignored with a statement like this above.
Those of us that actually play the game on a regular basis, can easily imagine how most features play out before even trying them.
Personally I don't find the video very important, it's just a bonus, the patch notes are always more comprehensive.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->#2 We realized that it actually works out better for people to discover changes on their own initially, and actually play them before passing judgement. Typically people read the patchnotes first, and come on and start posting all their problems with the changes, before even giving them a chance in an actual game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It can take many many games to discover changes on your own, the complaining is inevitable. In a game that is supposed to be competitive it can be very frustrating to expect a certain behaviour from a feature, only to find out in a critical moment that it works different. There's also no way to differentiate between bugged and purposely changed features without the patch notes. Releasing the notes ASAP is the best you can do.
As for #2, just post patchnotes 24 hours from a patch. Or hell, even three days. Because I totally agree - people will post about a change without experiencing the whole.
<!--quoteo(post=1947005:date=Jun 27 2012, 07:53 PM:name=Raza.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Raza. @ Jun 27 2012, 07:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947005"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In a game that is supposed to be competitive it can be very frustrating to expect a certain behaviour from a feature, only to find out in a critical moment that it works different.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's beta.
<!--quoteo(post=1947005:date=Jun 27 2012, 07:53 PM:name=Raza.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Raza. @ Jun 27 2012, 07:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1947005"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's also no way to differentiate between bugged and purposely changed features without the patch notes. Releasing the notes ASAP is the best you can do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes there is, common sense. Besides, there are no hotfixes, so there's no rush to report a bug.
In a game that is supposed to be competitive it can be very frustrating to expect a certain behaviour from a feature, only to find out in a critical moment that it works different.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's beta.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
UWE actively encourages competitive-play via NS2HD right now, so the ever so popular "its-a-beta"-killphrase is not applicable here (nor is it in many other areas of discussion, wouldn't it be nice if people stopped trying to kill off threads using it).
some people read the patch notes, and get high expectations, and dont give the changes a fair evaluation.
so theres alot of static noise on the forums after each patch, and it takes the devs longer to spot the real good and bad points of those changes as they have to sift through all the chatter.
at least thats the way i see things :)
they did not say that, and they did not even imply it
youve simply twister their words to suit your own negative conclusion, grow up
youve simply twister their words to suit your own negative conclusion, grow up<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excuse me, but that is exactly what they said. They don't give us the patch notes because we would complain about changes before trying them out, aka we're too dumb to understand the impact of the changes. The one twisting their words is you.
@ScardyBob: We obbiously <i>can</i> wait that long, but why should we? Do you think it is a mistake to voice our displeasure about it? How would they then learn about it?
I think that's unfair. People will make comments on the patch notes before they have played the game. That has nothing to do with being too dumb to understand them. It's just human nature. I think you need to play around for a while before you get a good feel for the changes.
<i>Oh hey! New patch is out, gotta make a patch vid and post the changelog! Mmm... Yummy yoghurt for breakfast. Hey, letters from Cologne. Must be about GamesCom! Invoices... Yay! What's this? Organisation stuff for Rezzed... Better sort that out. Hotels in Brighton are exxy, far out. Oh damn, ate too much yoghurt, that doesn't feel good. Going to skip lunch. Still need to do that patch vid. Better get this other stuff sent off first, don't want to risk our spots or incur late fees. Hey some admin tasks! Oooo... Shiny... Damn the plants need watering. A playtest! Cool! Ahh damn don't have time to join it today. Going to take a break. OMG what is that on Max's screen! *Crowd around.* Getting late in the afternoon, better do that patch vid. Might check the forums first. Wait, why is someone saying we called people dumb? Sigh, better explain things, don't want people to read that and believe it. Whoah! Just realised I've had Brian staring at me in freeze frame from Premiere for the whole time I was typing this... I'm hungry!</i>
As usual, there is nothing sinister going on. Its an innocent combination of what Cory said and the fact that we are not robots, things take time, tasks get triaged, etc.
</strike>
edit: If you don't have enough time that's entirely understandable. Just say so and all is good. What is not good is to make up excuses or to treat us like children.
The topic is resolved now and the thread can be closed as far as I am concerned.
Quoting because I basically agree.
Is there a system for automatic changelogs (grab from checkin messages, or something like that)? It seems like they're written in a sort of ad-hoc way, which is really not a good idea (if you want people to test the new content quickly, rather than 2 weeks later after other changes have been cemented in on top)
You should know all the changes you're putting in when a patch goes out to Steam. Even if some people like me are gonna look at the notes and cry all over the place, it's still best practice to just release them anyway. When I don't see a changelog, it's one less incentive for me to open up the game and see if it's fun yet.
I can do a lot more as a 'beta tester' with information about what a patch does than I can by refreshing a thread of people saying "I <i>think </i>this changed.." (because I won't do that until someone pays me)
This jokingly said, I understand the disappointment of the few that can argue without insults.
I don't think they will handle changelogs the same way as they do in Pre-1.0. After release the game is feature complete, most changes will be less game-overhauling. Then, I agree that changelogs should be out immediately after it hits steam, for less frustration of competitive players and users overall.
But before 1.0 it's handier to give them after people played. People learn changes through gameplay and they will have more grounded experience to fuel their feedback with. I'm not saying they should actively withdraw their patchnotes for a week, but 2 - 1 days isn't that much of a wait, especially since you get an video showing the features, which gives players who haven't played the build get a better perspective on the changes as well.
<i>In beta nothing is can be considered final, not even the way patch notes are being distributed.</i>
Of course people can do wrong or stupid predictions, but that's why we have a brain and meet to discuss on a forum.
Competitive play is encouraged to have a strong competitive base when the game is released and to test out features in an environment more sophisticated than pub. Whether people like it or not, it. still. is. beta.
However you might feel about the way patch notes are distributed (or changes to the game are being made), take into account that the devs aren't out to get you. They're not purposefully withholding information, nor doing anything to make your life harder.
The forum is here to voice concerns, but try to keep it friendly and accusation-free.
I suppose I can understand how those competitive players would like to immediately know every minute (as in "my-nyoot") change -- but it's going to be the same fairness for everyone.
-I'd like to see true dynamic infestation, like it was previously described, but it looks like they are sticking with the cyst chain concept.
-I also really liked the lockable/controllable doors, but I can't say what that did to balance as I just play for fun. Onos smashing doors is still planned as far as I know, though. Weldable doors still planned?
-Another neat engine feature would be the ability to see what was going on through a phase gate since they are designed as a doorway (much like Portal, Prey, etc) but I can totally understand leaving that out -- not knowing anything about how it could be implemented -- I see it as something that's probably very complicated.
-Shotgun secondary function. It would be nice to have a stock/butt strike like the rifle or something. Maybe make the rifle have a burst fire rather than a melee? I seem to waste a lot of ammo with how fast the ROF is.
-Firing mode changes for the pistol. I know I hardly use the secondary fire when I can get 3-4 shots off quicker.
-An overlay texture (I forget the term Max mentioned) for the flashlight.
-Change jetpacks to be more of a jump-jet with limited flight, it would allow evasion from ground enemies but prevent the 10 second ceiling grinding.
-Decals would be a nice addition just for visual effect. It's nice to see remnants of intense action. I think this is planned?
-A command/variables listing in the console.
-Ability to rotate all structures when being placed.
-Some function, perhaps like BF2, where you can join or be assigned to squads -- indicators next to the player name could identify which squad. The commander could easily see/select squads in a sidebar. I don't see the automatic squad stuff working well enough. With as fast as NS2 plays...maybe it's not even worth it to have squad separation, though.
-An alternate view for commander, being able to get right into a 3D controlled perspective, like the spectator mode.
I'm sure I could write more, but maybe some of these would be of interest to someone else as well.