Dark Knight Rises
<div class="IPBDescription">Here be spoilers.</div><b>Non-spoiler version: It's a decent movie, pretty good even. It's definitely not flawless and easily is the worst of the trilogy, but it's by no means a bad film. It's definitely worth seeing.</b>
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That's it for the non-spoilers. I can't be arsed to clog this with black spoiler tags, and if you honestly have interest in seeing this movie, why the hell are you reading this thread? What did you honestly expect to see here? If you can't help yourself, that's your problem, not mine.
<b>The good:</b>
I liked Bane. More on this later, but I thought his character was great. He's obviously no Heath Ledger but was still excellent in his own way. Also, more Batman gadgets, and the fighting was really cleaned-up compared to Dark Knight where everything was in shaky-cam-blurry-o-vision. The fighting feels a lot more visceral.
I also like Catwoman. Especially the catsuit :D
The plot was good (if a little bizarre), and I think the movie tied up the trilogy pretty well while quite obviously leaving room for future films. I don't know how much of this I was supposed to have figured out before, but it was pretty clear to me from early on that that cop (forgot his name) was going to be Robin. I'm glad that they did away with Robin's previously goofy backstory, and it really does seem like they're going to skip "Robin" altogether and go straight to Nightwing (much, much better). The twist with Talia / whats-her-name and the League of Shadows was a great one too.
<b>The bad:</b>
- Bane. I like Bane in the movie, but I hate Bane. Why Bane? Because he's not Bane. He's a guy with ridiculously unnatural, completely unexplained strength (he LITERALLY punches Batman's armor to pieces). If he had the Venom pump, yes. And no, Bane didn't have to be as huge and ridiculous as he was in, say, Arkham Asylum. However, not only did he have nothing to do with Venom, the Venom pump he required to live, and wasn't even Hispanic like he was supposed to be, but he's just a white guy who does a bad Sean Connery impression through a mask that is little more than a relentless morphine drip. The Bane in this movie has nothing in common with the comics Bane, except a brief fling with Ras al Ghul. I don't understand why this had to be Bane.
- The progression of time. The plot revolves around a huge time bomb. The time bomb isn't going to go off for like 5 months. This is fine, but the movie abruptly jumps months at a time without telling us. You don't figure it out until they finally show you the timer, several long minutes into the scene in question. This isn't a huge deal but it was kind of annoying.
- The prison. I'm not the best at suspending my disbelief, but surely the prison bit bothered others too. Bane completely seals himself and his thugs inside <strike>New York</strike> Gotham. Everyone knows who he is, and nobody wants to get in there and save him. However, he somehow captures Batman, <b>travels to the exact opposite side of the world to India or Pakistan or wherever</b>, leaves Bruce Wayne, then travels back and just magically appears in Gotham. Eventually a completely penniless Bruce Wayne breaks out of the prison, <b>and one jump-cut later is standing in Gotham</b>. He has no money. Alfred is gone. Nobody knows where he is. But he managed to appear out of thin air (quite literally), traveling all the way around the world in seemingly an instant (though this is highly complicated by the random leaps through time the movie undergoes), to say nothing of managing to break back into Gotham, which, by the way, <u>has only exactly one way in or out</u>.
- Another big plot point is the fact that Wayne Industries is bankrupt, and Bruce Wayne loses all his money. There's even a scene showing his power being cut. Sure as hell didn't disrupt operations in the Bat Cave though. And despite the fact that it would seem that being broke would mean he'd have to make do without the vast resources of Waynetech, no, he has even fancier gadgets than ever. Having no resources, not even Alfred, didn't disrupt operations even the slightest.
- While on the topic of Wayne being bankrupt, look at *HOW*. All they did was get his fingerprints. Apparently that's all you need to bring a supercorp to bankruptcy. Seriously though, someone in the movie even says that they can prove it was fraud. Fraud? You don't think so? Bane and his cronies literally walked into the stock exchange, shot up the place, killed a few people, and quite obviously and plainly hacked into the system. There's 400 goddamn witnesses to this, and you can't prove it's fraud? The Fed would've frozen trading and rendered all transactions void for that day anyway. In fact, it's not unheard of for trading to be frozen to stop temporary economic calamities.
- The "romance" with whats-her-name.... Miranda? Was the most rushed thing ever. There was absolutely zero indication of any romance there, and then BAM two scenes later, they're shagging on the rug. Seriously?
- Length. The movie is too long. Definitely a lot of material there that could've been cut. It's 160 minutes and it definitely feels like it.
<b>The ugly:</b>
- The bomb plot. In The Dark Knight, a huge characterization of the movie is the plot involving the two ferries. Both of them have detonators to blow up the other ferry, and one is full of convicts, the other normal people. I won't go too much more into it than that because you should know this. In DKR, central to the plot is the idea that if anyone tries to leave a remote detonator will be triggered. Bane sets it up so that the military has to use armed force to FORCE people to stay inside Gotham, where the bomb is. Quite sadistic. Except this is only played out in one very brief scene. And it's incredibly anti-climactic. The Dark Knight used this same no-win scenario for great dramatic tension. Despite the obvious copying of the same plot, they simply avoided it altogether. Nobody tries to leave Gotham. The military isn't shown gunning down innocents to keep the bomb from detonating. Seriously. Everyone's just happy to sit around doing ######-all.
- The climax. I'm not going to say anything except that <a href="http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/197/319/batman-bomb.gif" target="_blank">this</a> is basically how the movie ends. Or, if you prefer a more accurate but decidedly less Batmanny version: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aSUr4vD5-mk#t=60s" target="_blank">this</a>. I couldn't find a clip of it, but also just picture the climax of The Avengers. It's all the same thing. The biggest cliche in superhero movies, and we got it.
- Bane's defeat was the most incredibly anticlimactic thing ever. I was expecting Batman to use his fear of dying to overcome his foe... but no, he's about to die, Catwoman shows up and blows him away and in less than two seconds he's a blur, and he's dead, and he's gone forever. You barely even see him eat it.
<b>The annoying:</b>
- Ras al Ghul shows up in the movie for only 20 seconds. How disappointing.
- Gotham. Rather than a vaguely fictionalized Chicago that Gotham has always been - the city most tightly linked to organized crime in America's history thus making it so appealing for Batman to be set there - is now New York. And I mean, literally, New York. They don't even hide it. Every aerial view of Gotham <b>is Manhattan island</b>. I don't think even a single cent of the CGI budget was spent trying to make the 'New Gotham' not quite obviously being New York. They stuck an Illinois license plate on the school bus (look for it) and that's about it. Chicago is famous for its particular gothic architecture and great advantage was taken of this in DK and to a lesser extent, BB. The change to New York, though, is quite obvious an quite appalling.
- Wayne manor is easier to break into than my apartment.
- Uh, what happened to Morgan Freeman? The last we see of him, he's climbing away from the flood. That's it. No ending for you, Mr. Fox.
Final verdict: I enjoyed it, but I wouldn't see it again.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's it for the non-spoilers. I can't be arsed to clog this with black spoiler tags, and if you honestly have interest in seeing this movie, why the hell are you reading this thread? What did you honestly expect to see here? If you can't help yourself, that's your problem, not mine.
<b>The good:</b>
I liked Bane. More on this later, but I thought his character was great. He's obviously no Heath Ledger but was still excellent in his own way. Also, more Batman gadgets, and the fighting was really cleaned-up compared to Dark Knight where everything was in shaky-cam-blurry-o-vision. The fighting feels a lot more visceral.
I also like Catwoman. Especially the catsuit :D
The plot was good (if a little bizarre), and I think the movie tied up the trilogy pretty well while quite obviously leaving room for future films. I don't know how much of this I was supposed to have figured out before, but it was pretty clear to me from early on that that cop (forgot his name) was going to be Robin. I'm glad that they did away with Robin's previously goofy backstory, and it really does seem like they're going to skip "Robin" altogether and go straight to Nightwing (much, much better). The twist with Talia / whats-her-name and the League of Shadows was a great one too.
<b>The bad:</b>
- Bane. I like Bane in the movie, but I hate Bane. Why Bane? Because he's not Bane. He's a guy with ridiculously unnatural, completely unexplained strength (he LITERALLY punches Batman's armor to pieces). If he had the Venom pump, yes. And no, Bane didn't have to be as huge and ridiculous as he was in, say, Arkham Asylum. However, not only did he have nothing to do with Venom, the Venom pump he required to live, and wasn't even Hispanic like he was supposed to be, but he's just a white guy who does a bad Sean Connery impression through a mask that is little more than a relentless morphine drip. The Bane in this movie has nothing in common with the comics Bane, except a brief fling with Ras al Ghul. I don't understand why this had to be Bane.
- The progression of time. The plot revolves around a huge time bomb. The time bomb isn't going to go off for like 5 months. This is fine, but the movie abruptly jumps months at a time without telling us. You don't figure it out until they finally show you the timer, several long minutes into the scene in question. This isn't a huge deal but it was kind of annoying.
- The prison. I'm not the best at suspending my disbelief, but surely the prison bit bothered others too. Bane completely seals himself and his thugs inside <strike>New York</strike> Gotham. Everyone knows who he is, and nobody wants to get in there and save him. However, he somehow captures Batman, <b>travels to the exact opposite side of the world to India or Pakistan or wherever</b>, leaves Bruce Wayne, then travels back and just magically appears in Gotham. Eventually a completely penniless Bruce Wayne breaks out of the prison, <b>and one jump-cut later is standing in Gotham</b>. He has no money. Alfred is gone. Nobody knows where he is. But he managed to appear out of thin air (quite literally), traveling all the way around the world in seemingly an instant (though this is highly complicated by the random leaps through time the movie undergoes), to say nothing of managing to break back into Gotham, which, by the way, <u>has only exactly one way in or out</u>.
- Another big plot point is the fact that Wayne Industries is bankrupt, and Bruce Wayne loses all his money. There's even a scene showing his power being cut. Sure as hell didn't disrupt operations in the Bat Cave though. And despite the fact that it would seem that being broke would mean he'd have to make do without the vast resources of Waynetech, no, he has even fancier gadgets than ever. Having no resources, not even Alfred, didn't disrupt operations even the slightest.
- While on the topic of Wayne being bankrupt, look at *HOW*. All they did was get his fingerprints. Apparently that's all you need to bring a supercorp to bankruptcy. Seriously though, someone in the movie even says that they can prove it was fraud. Fraud? You don't think so? Bane and his cronies literally walked into the stock exchange, shot up the place, killed a few people, and quite obviously and plainly hacked into the system. There's 400 goddamn witnesses to this, and you can't prove it's fraud? The Fed would've frozen trading and rendered all transactions void for that day anyway. In fact, it's not unheard of for trading to be frozen to stop temporary economic calamities.
- The "romance" with whats-her-name.... Miranda? Was the most rushed thing ever. There was absolutely zero indication of any romance there, and then BAM two scenes later, they're shagging on the rug. Seriously?
- Length. The movie is too long. Definitely a lot of material there that could've been cut. It's 160 minutes and it definitely feels like it.
<b>The ugly:</b>
- The bomb plot. In The Dark Knight, a huge characterization of the movie is the plot involving the two ferries. Both of them have detonators to blow up the other ferry, and one is full of convicts, the other normal people. I won't go too much more into it than that because you should know this. In DKR, central to the plot is the idea that if anyone tries to leave a remote detonator will be triggered. Bane sets it up so that the military has to use armed force to FORCE people to stay inside Gotham, where the bomb is. Quite sadistic. Except this is only played out in one very brief scene. And it's incredibly anti-climactic. The Dark Knight used this same no-win scenario for great dramatic tension. Despite the obvious copying of the same plot, they simply avoided it altogether. Nobody tries to leave Gotham. The military isn't shown gunning down innocents to keep the bomb from detonating. Seriously. Everyone's just happy to sit around doing ######-all.
- The climax. I'm not going to say anything except that <a href="http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/197/319/batman-bomb.gif" target="_blank">this</a> is basically how the movie ends. Or, if you prefer a more accurate but decidedly less Batmanny version: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aSUr4vD5-mk#t=60s" target="_blank">this</a>. I couldn't find a clip of it, but also just picture the climax of The Avengers. It's all the same thing. The biggest cliche in superhero movies, and we got it.
- Bane's defeat was the most incredibly anticlimactic thing ever. I was expecting Batman to use his fear of dying to overcome his foe... but no, he's about to die, Catwoman shows up and blows him away and in less than two seconds he's a blur, and he's dead, and he's gone forever. You barely even see him eat it.
<b>The annoying:</b>
- Ras al Ghul shows up in the movie for only 20 seconds. How disappointing.
- Gotham. Rather than a vaguely fictionalized Chicago that Gotham has always been - the city most tightly linked to organized crime in America's history thus making it so appealing for Batman to be set there - is now New York. And I mean, literally, New York. They don't even hide it. Every aerial view of Gotham <b>is Manhattan island</b>. I don't think even a single cent of the CGI budget was spent trying to make the 'New Gotham' not quite obviously being New York. They stuck an Illinois license plate on the school bus (look for it) and that's about it. Chicago is famous for its particular gothic architecture and great advantage was taken of this in DK and to a lesser extent, BB. The change to New York, though, is quite obvious an quite appalling.
- Wayne manor is easier to break into than my apartment.
- Uh, what happened to Morgan Freeman? The last we see of him, he's climbing away from the flood. That's it. No ending for you, Mr. Fox.
Final verdict: I enjoyed it, but I wouldn't see it again.
Comments
edit:the gun was a ar15 , and he additionaly used night vision goggles
crazy thing is after I just found out I started talking with a dude I know from another community turns out he was at that showing but went home cause he couldn't hang with large crowds before it went down
he is still kind stunned
It's Aurora, Colorado: a suburb of Denver, not in Denver. Crazy stuff only a few miles away from me. I know people who live in the part of Aurora where this happened too. My doctor's office is like 10 blocks from there...
Random thoughts:
- The plot was a disappointment as it was pretty much the last hour of Batman Begins (Gotham too corrupt, must be burnt to the ground)
- A guy with no cartilage in his knees would be in excruciating pain stepping out of the shower, let alone fighting crime
- Getting a prisoner to <b>punch your dislocated vertebrae back into place</b>
- An old, camp, Rocky-style cliché where the hero gets pummeled by the bad guy, goes away, trains harder and wants it more, then returns to the bad guy and defeats him in the exact same way that saw him get utterly destroyed the first time.
- Was hoping to see some of Bruce Wayne's character (loved the way the trilogy seperates Wayne from Batman) but Wayne was barely in the movie.
- The Talia twist was really good, didn't see it coming.
- I liked Bane. Certainly, after he got raped by one of the 90s movie where they made him a WWE wrestler meat head, some of his intelllect shone through. Don't know much about the lore so didn't miss things like Venom not being a factor.
- At first I was like "are you kidding, the ghost of Ras Al-Ghul reveals to Wayne that Bane was his kid" but then it turned out to be just a (wrong) hallucination
- The Bat bike was awesome, especially the way it turned straight through 90 degrees
- Anne Hathaway was amazingly good as Catwoman. I thought she was just a chick flick actor, but she gave real sass to the role.
- I think it was a good idea of ending it with this movie, it was starting to stray back into camp territory (Batman, Batcar, Batbike, Batplane, Robin, Catwoman)
- Wayne/Batman can't walk properly without the leg brace or his cane, yet in the prison he's able to train and jump the chasm fine
- The ending was solid. Glad they didn't kill him off, though it was a bit telegraphed with specific references to the Batplane's autopilot.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- The progression of time. The plot revolves around a huge time bomb. The time bomb isn't going to go off for like 5 months. This is fine, but the movie abruptly jumps months at a time without telling us. You don't figure it out until they finally show you the timer, several long minutes into the scene in question. This isn't a huge deal but it was kind of annoying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the scene where the car drives down the alley in heavy snow was supposed to show the passage of time when Wayne is in the hole.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know how much of this I was supposed to have figured out before, but it was pretty clear to me from early on that that cop (forgot his name) was going to be Robin.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well seen, I didn't get this until the scene where he's in the batcave.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Wayne manor is easier to break into than my apartment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha! I thought this too :p
Yeah, that was the main thing that bothered me.
I enjoyed it though.
- Getting a prisoner to <b>punch your dislocated vertebrae back into place</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, I forgot about that too. Why exactly was he supposed to have no cartilage in his knees anyway?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well seen, I didn't get this until the scene where he's in the batcave.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My theory was "who is this random clown, and why would he know Bruce Wayne / Batman's identity?" Not even Gordon knew, which means he's going to have to become something more than 'just a cop'. He's young and also looks the part, so it seemed to me a perfect shoe-in.
The fisticuffs in this movie seemed stilted and boring. I want to see some martial arts flair in my action movie, not a pub brawl.
It was obvious to me that the kid would be Robin when he first came to Wayne manor. The canonical story is that Robin used self-taught detective skills to work out who Batman really was, so it fit.
Catwoman was pretty well done in my eye. When she said "Whoops." in that trademark coy manner I knew they'd nailed the casting with Hathaway.
So shouldn't everyone know Batman's identity now? Bane shouted it out in a roomfull of henchmen who were very much alive at the end of the movie. Plus Bane's chums driving Batman's cars all over town would be a bit of a giveaway.
I think the Bane <-> venom relationship was probably on the cards early-on, but got culled as being non-essential to the plot. They'd have to have a few scenes establishing what venom was and why Bane is addicted to it, and it would play silly-buggers with the hole-in-the-ground prison thing.
Perhaps we'll see a nightwing movie next? Or perhaps a justice league once the new Superman franchise establishes itself.
All in all: Worth watching, but easily the worst of the series.
--Scythe--
This man is blind! That was the first thing I thought when I seen her at the very beginning of the movie, though I do enjoy a good comic book from time to time.
<!--quoteo(post=1952965:date=Jul 21 2012, 11:40 AM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sherpa @ Jul 21 2012, 11:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1952965"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- I liked Bane. Certainly, after he got raped by one of the 90s movie where they made him a WWE wrestler meat head, some of his intelllect shone through. Don't know much about the lore so didn't miss things like Venom not being a factor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I was mad about to begin with. Bane, really doesn't show up as a super-villain without Poison Ivy's Venom serum.
<!--quoteo(post=1952965:date=Jul 21 2012, 11:40 AM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sherpa @ Jul 21 2012, 11:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1952965"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- I think it was a good idea of ending it with this movie, it was starting to stray back into camp territory (Batman, Batcar, Batbike, Batplane, Robin, Catwoman)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bat-copter my good man.
<!--quoteo(post=1952965:date=Jul 21 2012, 11:40 AM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sherpa @ Jul 21 2012, 11:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1952965"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- The ending was solid. Glad they didn't kill him off, though it was a bit telegraphed with specific references to the Batplane's autopilot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whole time the Third Rock From the Sun, guy was in the movie I was thinking "Just tell us he's Robin, and get it over with."
Teal'c! Yay!
--Scythe--
Teal'c! Yay!
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't forget the Asian guy from Grimm, still playing the role of a Cop lol...
Or the medic doctor from Torchwood.
In the end, it takes Catwoman with a cannon thingy mounted on a bike to take down Capt. Picard's clone.
Movie was ok. There were a few things that got to me (Sneaks to see Mr. Fox and Miranda, leaves the chic. Next scene, "Where is Miranda?" Uhh... too many knocks to the head, Brucie-boy?), but had fun parts. Bane v Batman fight was done great, I thought. I called the kid in the Pit not being Bane. We spent the entire movie seeing his eyes, so kind of hard not to notice it was him.
The movie didnt really work for me on alot of levels
1 bane wasnt mennecaning enough due to the fact hes killing random people who have no purpose in the movie exept to be killed ( have bane kill somone that matters like alfred - catwoman robin the commishioner - anyone ###### give bane some goddamn importance
hes ###### bane esily the mostpowerfull character in the movie yet he does nothing with his power and gives batman time after time to escape - yeah hes really a villian NOT hes just a nother goon behind a faceless villian no one cares about -
2 Catwoman - who cares. the movie is about batman, i remember christan bale saying if theres robin in this movie im gone ... and now we have catwoman whos basicly the movie is more about her than batman -
i swear catwoman gets more screentime than batman -
3 the incontinuties - my god this movie just did not fit together - we have time slowing down in the begiing then time lurching forward in the end - the pacing of this movie just flat out sucks, where as The dark knight was just amazing and never let me get bored
4- bane's voice sucks Bane does not need to sound like a 80 year old man - the whole idea of bane could have been pulled off alot better, even tho i liked tom hardy's performance the way the character was written was bad
by the time the origin of bane kicks in were at the end of the movie and no one should care at this point -
this movie wasnt violent enough bane should have tore peoples heads off - ###### this pg13 ######
id give the movie a 60%
previous film was 99%
And Marion Cotillard was -simply put- crap at her role.
It's the middle film in terms of quality for me. Better than Begins, worse than TDK. But to criticise it for taking 'comic book liberties' with reality really is missing the point. Why is Batman able to get back from Easternprisonistan in a scene? Because he's Batman.
My only real complaints were that:
- Catwoman serves no purpose beyond adding a semi-love interest for Batman, and leading him from plot point to plot point,
- The 'Corporate Buyout' attack on the Stock Exchange was handled fairly poorly, it would have been nice to come up with a more solid plot around this area.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is fine, but the movie abruptly jumps months at a time without telling us.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There were clear indications of the passage of time, and in fact, I liked that a more traditional indirect form of storytelling was used. Most superhero movies are now written for idiots and in one of the recent marvel adaptations you would have had some overly obvious reference to time and date either on screen in print, or some kind of hammy reference to it being halloween or something.
I mean, did you not notice it started snowing and then the river froze over? That doesn't happen overnight.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And Marion Cotillard was -simply put- crap at her role.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I agree, a terrible performance.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Uh, what happened to Morgan Freeman? The last we see of him, he's climbing away from the flood. That's it. No ending for you, Mr. Fox.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IIRC he's talking to the guys fixing the Bat flying machine, asks them if the autopilot can be fixed.
Which already has been fixed 6 months earlier, by Bruce Wayne.
Apart from superhuman Bane, fraud neglect and the impossible traveling, I quite liked it.
Also, he forgot about legs exercises for the jump.
Batman jumps with his pecs.
--Scythe--
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was actually a split second occurrence of hovering without flapping that I attribute to making the jump.