Please remove brain reading implant
blujay
Join Date: 2012-07-21 Member: 154277Members
Join Date: 2012-07-21 Member: 154277Members
BUILD 215
I was just thinking the very first time I played "it would be nice if it were easier to differentiate myself on the map". So <i>money</i> right there with the change to an arrow. That's a HUGE boon to new player response time when they don't know the layout of the map yet.
I might add one bit of criticism that didn't get addressed:
<b>There are some places where the map appears to display and opening and there <i>isn't</i> one. Windows that are and will always be shut are <i>practically</i> walls, and should be displayed as such on the map. That makes navigating less confusing for new players, and does nothing to experienced players, net gain no loss. </b>
Also good job on the "more proper" building health displays, and the display indicators for evolution/map/etc. Looking much nicer compared to when I started playing barely three days ago.
Hit registration seems to be more reliable now, and the game seemed (in my one or two plays) to be handling much better. It's still not what I would call "polished" but it's at the point where the performance in a full 18-player room will not stop me from enjoying the game, granted that the server is able to keep up on it's end. I'm playing on a C2D E6850 @ 3Ghz, w/4Gb DDR2(800) & 1Gb GTX460. I feel like there's still a lot of room for improvement, though. \\
The balance changes I can't say much about, welders appear <i>required</i> now which seems fine, but <i>fundamentally</i> I find there should probably be a way for a marine to restore his own armor, given that teammates can often be less than perfect; and the game should be built around an average player experience- not as some outrageous esport.
I was just thinking the very first time I played "it would be nice if it were easier to differentiate myself on the map". So <i>money</i> right there with the change to an arrow. That's a HUGE boon to new player response time when they don't know the layout of the map yet.
I might add one bit of criticism that didn't get addressed:
<b>There are some places where the map appears to display and opening and there <i>isn't</i> one. Windows that are and will always be shut are <i>practically</i> walls, and should be displayed as such on the map. That makes navigating less confusing for new players, and does nothing to experienced players, net gain no loss. </b>
Also good job on the "more proper" building health displays, and the display indicators for evolution/map/etc. Looking much nicer compared to when I started playing barely three days ago.
Hit registration seems to be more reliable now, and the game seemed (in my one or two plays) to be handling much better. It's still not what I would call "polished" but it's at the point where the performance in a full 18-player room will not stop me from enjoying the game, granted that the server is able to keep up on it's end. I'm playing on a C2D E6850 @ 3Ghz, w/4Gb DDR2(800) & 1Gb GTX460. I feel like there's still a lot of room for improvement, though. \\
The balance changes I can't say much about, welders appear <i>required</i> now which seems fine, but <i>fundamentally</i> I find there should probably be a way for a marine to restore his own armor, given that teammates can often be less than perfect; and the game should be built around an average player experience- not as some outrageous esport.
Comments
Armories not healing armor sucked in the competitive games we played too. It was part of the balance mod and we played quite a few gathers on it. It's not just pubs that it's a bad change for.
Wait... what?
multiple PTs from the comp scene that play those gathers and that mod advocated strongly just for this change (and is what caused it) by saying it worked wonderfully?
...::scratches head::
multiple PTs from the comp scene that play those gathers and that mod advocated strongly just for this change (and is what caused it) by saying it worked wonderfully?
...::scratches head::<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only two PTs you have (Dragon and eh -- the two who put that change into ns2b, aka competitive mod, in the first place) are two of the only ones who actually liked it. Most didn't like it. A couple exertus guys liked it, fana liked it, dragon and eh.
I played 10 or 20 gathers on it and it added nothing to the game. It was an NS1 nostalgia throwback change and is one of the reasons NS2b fell out of style with the gathers. The best argument for it was "it worked in NS1" and "it adds teamplay." The first of which is irrelevant and the second of which is pointless because the teamplay it added was just tedious gameplay and not any kind of depth or skill based play. We also saw huge problems with fades and skulks dominating everything. Stopping to weld and forcibly losing 5 pres every death really hurt marine play. You're effectively forced to pick up a welder every time you spawn to do your repair homework before you can play NS2.
The armory humping was fixed in ns2b by greatly reducing the amount of health restored per tick -- down to something like 10 hp or 5 armor per tick.
Did you think the problem with armory humping was that you didn't get to hump it long enough to blow your load or...? You still just have marines humping the same armory for longer periods of time.
This is an exaggeration. I haven't played it now and don't say you are wrong. But on paper I like this change and many others have stated that they think the same. Don't try to build the picture that there are only 2 or 3 people who like this change.
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+1 to self-differentiation on the map for easy identification
+1 to minimaps reflecting traversable space (not windows) better
The one, and only, reason ns2b "fell out of style", was because it required a client install. The exertus balance mod is server only on the other hand -- an obvious choice.
The rest of your issues with the change are all related to other issues within the game.
Did you think the problem with armory humping was that you didn't get to hump it long enough to blow your load or...? You still just have marines humping the same armory for longer periods of time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It fixed it because it made marines vulnerable for longer while still allowing them to heal up without tediously doing their welding homework after every battle. The problem with armory humping is that it is incredibly effective in combat to face the armory while reloading or during a second or two lull during battle. With high healing per tick from armories, this gives a lot more survivability to marines around an armory than they should have. Fixing this by lowering the amount healed is a much more elegant and less-frustrating situation than removing armor healing completely from the armory.
<!--quoteo(post=1953821:date=Jul 26 2012, 05:21 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Jul 26 2012, 05:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is an exaggeration. I haven't played it now and don't say you are wrong. But on paper I like this change and many others have stated that they think the same. Don't try to build the picture that there are only 2 or 3 people who like this change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was speaking with regards to the people who typically play gathers. NS2b tried this change. It was pretty ######. It boosted aliens power even more going into the midgame (tier 2 area) because hit and run aliens dominate no armor marines in NS2. And with welder-only armor repair, more often than not you would be reengaged by aliens before you could find a teammate with a welder to patch you back up to vanilla survivability levels.
This.
Surely it doesn't take much to see the significant balance implications, on an already struggling faction, a change like this has. I really wish they would just fix what they had first, before further deepening the massive imbalance that still exists between aliens and marines. You guys should play pub games once in a while, and feel the frustration that lingers with the majority of the playerbase (a majority that is not a vocal forum majority) over how ridiculously non-enjoyable it is to play marines at the moment.
Surely it doesn't take much to see the significant balance implications, on an already struggling faction, a change like this has. I really wish they would just fix what they had first, before further deepening the massive imbalance that still exists between aliens and marines. You guys should play pub games once in a while, and feel the frustration that lingers with the majority of the playerbase (a majority that is not a vocal forum majority) over how ridiculously non-enjoyable it is to play marines at the moment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not even concerned about the relative winrates. To me, it is about changing a mechanic that adds no tactical depth yet adds another layer of frustration.
Gotcha. As long as we now know that welders = tedious, standing in front of vending machine = not tedious.
It's almost as frustrating as having to beg the commander for weapons/gear in NS1 :)
Its obvious the change impacts forward armoury play in the context of unorganized pubs, not those in your base... :s wat?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gotcha. As long as we now know that welders = tedious, standing in front of vending machine = not tedious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is more tedious?
1)Running around trying to guess who has a welder and who doesn't. Running around, pointing at everyone to see if they need welding. Running back to base to buy a welder (because forward armoury never placed now) so you can drop it and ask someone to pick it up and weld you. Running back to base to stand infront of the human armoury spending the whole game ass humping everyone. Having to switch to welder and drop it before death otherwise it disappears. Axe unusable and alien buildings dying slowly. Typing kill in console when in base with no armour (same effect as armoury humping. We should totally cap IP spawning at 2 as it acts as a workaround for those who 'excessively armoury humped').
2) Know where armoury is. Know armoury will heal you. Drop forward armoury. Spend a few seconds walking up to armoury. Look at armoury.
This. I think if I could use the welder on<i> myself </i>in addition to my team it wouldn't be a problem. As-is I can run around begging for armor for 10 minutes <i>until I just give up and kill myself for more armor.</i> Sounds good.
THIS. Or just let Advanced Armories heal armor right off the bat. This will solve the problems of the 10 res forward armory providing for invincible marines, gives you more bang for your buck with advanced armories (now it could be a good idea to build them in forward bases), and gives marines options other than having to continually buy that 5 res welder. The marine Pres model doesn't really account for constant welder purchase.
This.
Upgrading armories? Welding yourself? Not so much.
<b>There are some places where the map appears to display an opening and there <i>isn't</i> one. Windows that are and will always be shut are <i>practically</i> walls, and should be displayed as such on the map. That makes navigating less confusing for new players, and does nothing to experienced players, net gain no loss. </b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played a few rounds of 215 after not playing NS2 for quite a few months and ran into a few spots where the wall texture looked like an entrance to a vent but was a wall. Not sure with the windows though, since they are not destructible in NS2 in general. This might be a little confusing at the beginning, but probably something new players will understand very quickly.
Would really help if you guys took screenshots of these areas. thanks. (hit f12 while in game)
Advanced armories being able to upgrade to healing armor removes one of the purposes of the change: to help cease marine turtling.
Elodea might have swayed me to one side of the argument with the way he put it..