Right now, the gorge is best used as an on-demand evolution and not as a permanent team member. You have a hive that needs to be healed up? You could use bilebombs and heal support somewhere? You need to clog up your hive harvester and protect it with hydras? Great, go gorge, spend moneys and un-evolve or die when that gorge is not necessary anymore. Well used gorges are great and pretty necessary, permagorges are mostly just a waste of a perfectly good skulk. Alien map control is weak as it is, no need to weaken it any more by not attacking...
And yeah, the gorge needs more work as does the scoreboard.
Seems someone hasn't been playing very much... Two games yesterday I dropped a shift outside rine base (turns out people use phase gates and don't walk out of base unless the near RT is dieing). Anyway for the same res as giving a player an onos egg I dropped 6 gorge eggs... Next thing my team knows (they were being destroyed in base by Exosuits). My team has spawned right outside or rine start and are all gorges.... Needless to say 6 gorges took out the powernode in a heart beat and the tables were turned.
Gorges are useless, bile bomb isnt. Gorges need a buff to spit in the ease of use area. Make it so that if you hold down the left click you charge up the spit. Hock a loogie as it were. The charged up spit has a short range (via an arc) but covers a wider area and deals splash damage. OR make it like the spit attacks from the bullsquids in black mesa, with the multiple projectiles and splash damage. This spit would be much better utilized defensively and would even be like a shotgun that a combat engineer would have.
Hydras also need to have their limit removed or their cost removed. If you remove the limit you could increase the cost to 4-5 and it would still be fair. Clogs need to have a better effect, such as GL resistance if they block LoS of the explosion.
Gorge aren't useless... firstly at the start of a game use the time when the rest of the teammates are scouting/fighting to set up at bottlenecks and effectively stop marines having any map control on that particular side. In a game yesterday aliens started Data Core and marines in Atrium, I instantly went gorge went into Glass Hallway and placed 3 hydras up on the ceiling and then clogged of the ramp with 6 clogs leading to DC and the 4 sneaky clogs just before Glass Hallway corners off to Crossroads.
Staying up on the plateau I'd spit at the marines when they'd try break through to the clogs I'd heal spray them to minimize them breaking through while the 3 hydras would kill them off. My 4 sneaky clogs hidden just behind the corner to XR made marines try and run for it to XR only to end up being blocked by the clogs, while the hydras still were in LOS to hit them as I heal sprayed. I effectively blocked off reactor core for a whole 10-15 minutes a few did bust through towards XR, but nothing 1 or 2 spits couldn't finish off. Seeing they couldn't get past Reactor Core the Marine team only had Crevice and the Flight and summit to gain some real map control and the RTs with it. THIS BY NO MEANS MAKES GORGES USELESS!
Yes spit it really hard to read, but im kinda use to it. It's all about placement finding out where to trap marines into a small area, leaving the hydras in a spot protected from any form of sniping by the marines. Also with hydras never place them on their own as a marine can take a single hydra with ease, though a group of 3 not so much.
Here is an example of how to place your hydras and utilize LOS for hydras. In the screens bellow I have a setup blocking Ventilation.
Blocking off the catwalk allows you to have cover and heal the hydras when needed, the orange line roughly depicts how far the marines would have to run to break the hydra range. Combining spit to pick of marines would be relatively easy. The picture bellow shows how to make use of LOS the orange line depicts where the LOS starts and as you can see in the marine view that he can't just snipe one hydras as all the of them are placed to make use of that LOS start/break. This is where your hydras are most effective when the player can't try to snipe one hydra and the gorge can heal spray them. If he chooses to shoot the gorge he can drop behind the clog cover and heal up all the while the hydras are spiking away.
Now bellow is a bad example of hydra placement. All 3 hydras are place in a line on the ground, but in the marine view you can see the orange line or the LOS break and see that this allows him to snipe a single hydra and only take damage from one. When you get several marines focus on a hydra like this you're in trouble regardless of heal spray.
To fix this particular LOS break you should place hydras on the same plain or axis as the LOS break. Once again the picture bellow shows how placing all hydras on the vertical plain make the marine unable to avoid any of the hydras and takes the full barrage of spikes.
Keep what I've mentioned in mind and after a few hit and misses you should know some awesome gorge setups across all maps, which you'll find far from "useless".
Really nice post actually, but I'd still like to see a more easily utilized spit and the cap on hydras removed.
btw it kinda looks like you can jump over that clog wall leading into XR in your first image. It also looks like the hydras protecting sub from vent are vulnerable if the marine comes from XR. They may even be out of range.
For the glass hallway clogs stack them in 2's on top of each other. Also in regards to the Sub hydras if you effective block off a section with 1 gorge you will have a defensive position there until overrun, holding a position with skulks is somewhat harder as you don't have heals or anything thing else to soak the damage. The plus side of a gorge holding a position is that you can do it with less players and redistribute them to other areas of the map (places you'd be flanked from XR as you mentioned), along side the forward heal station for skulks to withdraw and engage again it is extremely useful.
Teamwork is the key though and getting close heals from a gorge is more than an incentive to keep him alive as a teammate.
Yep, great post by Remedy. Couple more general points about hydra placement.
Building hydras up high means that a marine has to look up to shoot them. That presents a great opportunity for skulks to attack by simply running along the ground. Think of it as a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28chess%29" target="_blank">fork</a>
Building hydras where marines can only attack them by commiting to an exposed position. You want to avoid situations where the marines can snipe at hydras and move behind map geometry while they reload, or quickly retreat to an armoury if they get low on heath.
Building hydras at map intersections is really useful. It can catch marines attacking from a variety of different approaches eg: Atrium hive, hydras in summit reception: hydras catch marines coming through flight or crossroads. More importantly it allows aliens to counter-attack those marines from a variety of directions. It's especially great if there's a nearby vent. Compare that to a hallway: some marines attack the hydras, all other marines aim down the hallway with no fear of flanking attacks.
Lastly, consider what other targets are available for marines to shoot at. A marine wants to attack harvesters, hives and upgrade chambers. If the marine runs along and sees only hydras, he will make a simple decision to attack and destroy those before moving forward. Now consider letting him complete 99% of his journey to those structures and at the last possible second expose him to hydras. Suddenly he has two targets which he perceives as urgent, and that can cripple some people's decision making. There are pros and cons to each of the two targets, he doesn't know where to find cover, he can't stay long because it was meant to be a raiding attack and the aliens will be here soon and of course the hydras are picking away at his health like a stopwatch ticking down the seconds. Muhahaha!
Comments
And yeah, the gorge needs more work as does the scoreboard.
Seems someone hasn't been playing very much... Two games yesterday I dropped a shift outside rine base (turns out people use phase gates and don't walk out of base unless the near RT is dieing). Anyway for the same res as giving a player an onos egg I dropped 6 gorge eggs... Next thing my team knows (they were being destroyed in base by Exosuits). My team has spawned right outside or rine start and are all gorges.... Needless to say 6 gorges took out the powernode in a heart beat and the tables were turned.
Hydras also need to have their limit removed or their cost removed. If you remove the limit you could increase the cost to 4-5 and it would still be fair. Clogs need to have a better effect, such as GL resistance if they block LoS of the explosion.
<a href="http://imgur.com/SYdST" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/SYdST.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Staying up on the plateau I'd spit at the marines when they'd try break through to the clogs I'd heal spray them to minimize them breaking through while the 3 hydras would kill them off. My 4 sneaky clogs hidden just behind the corner to XR made marines try and run for it to XR only to end up being blocked by the clogs, while the hydras still were in LOS to hit them as I heal sprayed. I effectively blocked off reactor core for a whole 10-15 minutes a few did bust through towards XR, but nothing 1 or 2 spits couldn't finish off. Seeing they couldn't get past Reactor Core the Marine team only had Crevice and the Flight and summit to gain some real map control and the RTs with it. THIS BY NO MEANS MAKES GORGES USELESS!
Yes spit it really hard to read, but im kinda use to it. It's all about placement finding out where to trap marines into a small area, leaving the hydras in a spot protected from any form of sniping by the marines. Also with hydras never place them on their own as a marine can take a single hydra with ease, though a group of 3 not so much.
Here is an example of how to place your hydras and utilize LOS for hydras. In the screens bellow I have a setup blocking Ventilation.
<a href="http://imgur.com/z8w0h" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/z8w0h.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<a href="http://imgur.com/bfjrU" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/bfjrU.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Blocking off the catwalk allows you to have cover and heal the hydras when needed, the orange line roughly depicts how far the marines would have to run to break the hydra range. Combining spit to pick of marines would be relatively easy. The picture bellow shows how to make use of LOS the orange line depicts where the LOS starts and as you can see in the marine view that he can't just snipe one hydras as all the of them are placed to make use of that LOS start/break. This is where your hydras are most effective when the player can't try to snipe one hydra and the gorge can heal spray them. If he chooses to shoot the gorge he can drop behind the clog cover and heal up all the while the hydras are spiking away.
<a href="http://imgur.com/B9bc0" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/B9bc0.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Now bellow is a bad example of hydra placement. All 3 hydras are place in a line on the ground, but in the marine view you can see the orange line or the LOS break and see that this allows him to snipe a single hydra and only take damage from one. When you get several marines focus on a hydra like this you're in trouble regardless of heal spray.
<a href="http://imgur.com/uyY1y" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/uyY1y.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
To fix this particular LOS break you should place hydras on the same plain or axis as the LOS break. Once again the picture bellow shows how placing all hydras on the vertical plain make the marine unable to avoid any of the hydras and takes the full barrage of spikes.
<a href="http://imgur.com/cWwmh" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/cWwmh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Keep what I've mentioned in mind and after a few hit and misses you should know some awesome gorge setups across all maps, which you'll find far from "useless".
btw it kinda looks like you can jump over that clog wall leading into XR in your first image. It also looks like the hydras protecting sub from vent are vulnerable if the marine comes from XR. They may even be out of range.
Teamwork is the key though and getting close heals from a gorge is more than an incentive to keep him alive as a teammate.
Building hydras up high means that a marine has to look up to shoot them. That presents a great opportunity for skulks to attack by simply running along the ground. Think of it as a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28chess%29" target="_blank">fork</a>
Building hydras where marines can only attack them by commiting to an exposed position. You want to avoid situations where the marines can snipe at hydras and move behind map geometry while they reload, or quickly retreat to an armoury if they get low on heath.
Building hydras at map intersections is really useful. It can catch marines attacking from a variety of different approaches eg: Atrium hive, hydras in summit reception: hydras catch marines coming through flight or crossroads. More importantly it allows aliens to counter-attack those marines from a variety of directions. It's especially great if there's a nearby vent. Compare that to a hallway: some marines attack the hydras, all other marines aim down the hallway with no fear of flanking attacks.
Lastly, consider what other targets are available for marines to shoot at. A marine wants to attack harvesters, hives and upgrade chambers. If the marine runs along and sees only hydras, he will make a simple decision to attack and destroy those before moving forward. Now consider letting him complete 99% of his journey to those structures and at the last possible second expose him to hydras. Suddenly he has two targets which he perceives as urgent, and that can cripple some people's decision making. There are pros and cons to each of the two targets, he doesn't know where to find cover, he can't stay long because it was meant to be a raiding attack and the aliens will be here soon and of course the hydras are picking away at his health like a stopwatch ticking down the seconds. Muhahaha!
Fork, expose, flank, confuse.