<!--quoteo(post=1958934:date=Aug 8 2012, 06:22 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 8 2012, 06:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958934"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is no response any of us can say that is going to change the minds of many of the people posting in this thread, who feel like NS2 is not as good of a game as NS1 was. And we certainly don't have the time to get into long point by point arguments related to a huge wide ranging amount of issues brought up in this 15 page thread, many of which we have already discussed, in depth at many different times over the course of the NS2 development cycle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just out of interest, are the 'in-depth discussions' referring to some PT-Dev vent talk or something? I've always felt there's more than enough of dev-community talk in general, but always felt that the deeper discussion is missing big time.
And how many other games have million dollar tournaments?
And how many of those were made by a team of < 10?
Really unfair comparision TBH, while im sure everyone would love NS2 to become that popular on release its highly unlikely just due to the nature of the game... Thats not to say given time post 1.0 that the game wont grow to be a e-sport, but expecting instant success on that scale is just crazy, and downright ignorant.
I really hope that people do not think every old NS1 player thinks this way...
NS2 doesn't exist in a bubble it competes for peoples spare time and money against other games.. Have you seen what games are hitting the market soon? Your also competing against games which entrench players...
So you either hit it out of the ball park on release or fade into oblivion...
There are only a handful of big e-sport games and most of them came from mods / small teams and are now massive franchises..
Even SWRTOR failed hard after $300 mil development cost and massive marketing because the game play was meh and they didn't listen to their customers...
<!--quoteo(post=1959145:date=Aug 8 2012, 03:31 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Aug 8 2012, 03:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959145"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just out of interest, are the 'in-depth discussions' referring to some PT-Dev vent talk or something? I've always felt there's more than enough of dev-community talk in general, but always felt that the deeper discussion is missing big time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Over half the Playtesters and Map Testers are veterans from NS1, both public and competitive. UWE hears on a daily basis just as many thoughts and points of view from us as they do from the forums (only in internal chat rooms and TeamSpeak Discussions). A lot of the time the voices are in unison about a lot of things, others not so much (just like in this thread). Ultimately, we give UWE thoughts ideas and choices but it's up to them to show us the path for NS2.
Did CS go from release to being played in IEM in 1 year?
Did Dota 2 have < 10 people working on the game?
How many years did it take Starcraft to become the game it is today?
Any game can fail no matter how many people work on it and no matter how much money is thrown at it... That has no real relevancy to NS2 however.
The point here (in this thread) is to try to bring more attention to some of the things that made NS1 great, and that they are missing in NS2... not to try and tear NS2 apart for some of the new mechanics like alien commander.
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
Let's see...
What do I love about NS2?
I love the lerk. Seriously. But I've always loved lerk. Power nodes. Yeah, I'm crazy, nobody else likes them. I think it adds a new element of strategy. Infestation. It's a cool concept and one that needs to be in the game. Definitely an improvement over NS1. Playing as an alien. Playing as a marine. Honestly I just like the game.
What could be changed?
Obviously there needs to be improvement in performance. I think the gorge should be able to do more. Which isn't to say that the alien commander is bad. I like it. I just think the gorge should be able to do more. Perhaps more structures. Perhaps creating cysts. Gorge and commander should work hand in hand. There is already a lot of synergy between the commander and gorge and I think that this should only be increased. Also I miss my gorge webs :'( Metabolize for fade. I think this would be a good addition. Or something else. I don't like that the fade has only three attacks. New attack for onos. Something else.
But overall I like the game and think it has great potential. I've successfully gotten a friend to buy into the beta and he loves it. So yeah. It looks good.
<!--quoteo(post=1958934:date=Aug 8 2012, 05:22 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Aug 8 2012, 05:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1958934"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We understand there is a lot of love for NS1, and many people have put countless hours of their lives into playing it and getting as good as they can at playing it, and they have gotten used to all the things about it that were not perfect. We love the first game we made, we know it got us where we are today, and we respect the love that many players have for it. But it was not perfect. For every person here who thinks it was amazing, there are probably at least twice as many who played it and were frustrated and confused and overwhelmed and didn't continue to play. We know that NS1 had plenty of areas that could be improved on, things we weren't ever completely happy with, and we wanted to take up the daunting challenge of creating a sequel that could respect what came before, but build on it and improve on it, and make it something new.
Of course there is disagreement between the developers and the hardcore NS1 community in regards to what we believe needed to be changed. Alien commander, obviously a huge controversial change, is one area where we have voiced our reasons why it was added, time and time again, but is often listed as one of the "worst" changes in NS2. We probably can't change people's minds on that who believe it was a mistake, all we can say is that we deeply believe it was the right and necessary change to make.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it makes zero sense to remove the working ideas, and replace them with things you still improving which doesn't work. Forcing things to work only shows you learned nothing from ns1 over the years. Removing working ideas (worked for years), adding more ways to limit players and forcing bad ideas to work....
And most recent change to gorges by charlie, how would that solve the gorge problem? the class feels so hollow compared how he used to be. If you say you listen to the community, how is the recent change remotely reflect on opinions in this thread, and countless others people made?
"we wanted to take up the daunting challenge of creating a sequel that could respect what came before, but build on it and improve on it, and make it something new. "
how are you respecting ns1 by changing things that used to work fine. How are you improving something with ideas that do not work, and forcing them to work.
it doesn't feel you understood your own community on what used to work, what people loved and what the game is missing if you're telling us your current ideas actually suppose to be an improvement from ns1 ideas.
<!--quoteo(post=1959149:date=Aug 8 2012, 03:46 PM:name=Obraxis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Obraxis @ Aug 8 2012, 03:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959149"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Over half the Playtesters and Map Testers are veterans from NS1, both public and competitive. UWE hears on a daily basis just as many thoughts and points of view from us as they do from the forums (only in internal chat rooms and TeamSpeak Discussions). A lot of the time the voices are in unison about a lot of things, others not so much (just like in this thread). Ultimately, we give UWE thoughts ideas and choices but it's up to them to show us the path for NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I had no intention of questioning the competence of PTs or anything like that, I know very few people from that group. What I was mostly trying to say is that whatever in depth discussion there has been, it doesn't really end up showing outside the inner circle. I still have no clue on what's the plan on many things and I have no idea what is the purpose or intention with multitude of features and decisions.
Just as a recent example, how is the lerk ever supposed to work as a fragile 30 res full melee lifeform? How is it going to play out against any decent aimer if the performance goes up?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just as a recent example, how is the lerk ever supposed to work as a fragile 30 res full melee lifeform? How is it going to play out against any decent aimer if the performance goes up?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With alterations to the damage and hp of the lerk if necessary, brought in to balance as performance increases over the next few builds :)
<!--quoteo(post=1959159:date=Aug 8 2012, 03:19 PM:name=Hunter.S.T.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hunter.S.T. @ Aug 8 2012, 03:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With alterations to the damage and hp of the lerk if necessary, brought in to balance as performance increases over the next few builds :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But increasing the health of a melee lifeform unbalances them in defensive/ambush situations... It needs the option to stay at range when necessary.
<!--quoteo(post=1959159:date=Aug 8 2012, 03:19 PM:name=Hunter.S.T.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hunter.S.T. @ Aug 8 2012, 03:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With alterations to the damage and hp of the lerk if necessary, brought in to balance as performance increases over the next few builds :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Increase the Lerk's HP to where it can survive multiple close-range point-blank shotgun-shots to the face? Because that is what Bacillus is referring to when performance increases and people can actually start to aim properly.
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
edited August 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1959161:date=Aug 8 2012, 11:23 AM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ Aug 8 2012, 11:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959161"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Increase the Lerk's HP to where it can survive multiple close-range point-blank shotgun-shots to the face? Because that is what Bacillus is referring to when performance increases and people can actually start to aim properly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure what the problem is. Lerk was melee in NS1 except for his spores. Spores now are nigh impossible to see through so it works out. Also there are spikes. Spikes are not melee. Spikes are good for killing marines.
You got it just the other way around, in NS1 the Lerk was long-range except for his bite, which was a very daunting weapon to use and usually the #1 reason for Lerks to die.
I'm a NS1 "old timer". Personally, I stopped playing around 201 because of performance reasons. There were other reasons why I jumped ship; however, I am familiar with this process and I just told myself begrudgingly that everything will settle in place by the final release at which point I will take another stab.
I was a competitive player and I had looked forward to NS2 like.. just about everyone back in the day. I was aware that NS2 was going to be an evolution and I hold on to something Charlie said he read in some game/developer book:
it was something along these lines: "For a successful sequel, you need to retain some 70% of the original game and 30% of new ideas"
I am left with the impression that there are some ideas that UWE are not willing to let go or change and will sacrifice other elements to maintain those "prized" ideas.
Now, I don't totally dislike NS2. I was beginning to enjoy parts of it and willing to accept that, circa 201/205, was an unfinished product, but despite the many elements that were ALREADY INCORPORATED in to the game, NS2 did not really do it for me. I feel like NS2 is going through an identity crisis at which point I just tell myself it is still in development.
<b><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->kabab<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>, while I don't fully appreciate the overall tone of harshness that comes about your writing, I sympathize with you wholeheartedly. NS1 was simple and straight to the point. For me, NS1 was like a good basketball or football game.. complexities arose from simple mechanics.
Oh one last thought.. if Alien commander is so asymmetrical, then why celebrate the fact that successful alien commanders do not dedicate the whole game to that role? To me, if it is acceptable that someone bails out of that position regularly in order to be successful, then maybe something is wrong with that mechanic. I'd like to see a gorge evolve to a "commanding role" just as a skulk evolves to a gorge. This commanding role directly effects players to a degree at which point can de-evolve to a gorge/skulk.
SecurityJoin Date: 2005-01-07Member: 33133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1959157:date=Aug 8 2012, 05:04 PM:name=luns)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (luns @ Aug 8 2012, 05:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959157"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it makes zero sense to remove the working ideas, and replace them with things you still improving which doesn't work. Forcing things to work only shows you learned nothing from ns1 over the years. Removing working ideas (worked for years), adding more ways to limit players and forcing bad ideas to work....
And most recent change to gorges by charlie, how would that solve the gorge problem? the class feels so hollow compared how he used to be. If you say you listen to the community, how is the recent change remotely reflect on opinions in this thread, and countless others people made?
"we wanted to take up the daunting challenge of creating a sequel that could respect what came before, but build on it and improve on it, and make it something new. "
how are you respecting ns1 by changing things that used to work fine. How are you improving something with ideas that do not work, and forcing them to work.
it doesn't feel you understood your own community on what used to work, what people loved and what the game is missing if you're telling us your current ideas actually suppose to be an improvement from ns1 ideas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1959171:date=Aug 8 2012, 05:36 PM:name=MrRadicalEd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrRadicalEd @ Aug 8 2012, 05:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959171"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm a NS1 "old timer". Personally, I stopped playing around 201 because of performance reasons. There were other reasons why I jumped ship; however, I am familiar with this process and I just told myself begrudgingly that everything will settle in place by the final release at which point I will take another stab.
I was a competitive player and I had looked forward to NS2 like.. just about everyone back in the day. I was aware that NS2 was going to be an evolution and I hold on to something Charlie said he read in some game/developer book:
it was something along these lines: "For a successful sequel, you need to retain some 70% of the original game and 30% of new ideas"
I am left with the impression that there are some ideas that UWE are not willing to let go or change and will sacrifice other elements to maintain those "prized" ideas.
Now, I don't totally dislike NS2. I was beginning to enjoy parts of it and willing to accept that, circa 201/205, was an unfinished product, but despite the many elements that were ALREADY INCORPORATED in to the game, NS2 did not really do it for me. I feel like NS2 is going through an identity crisis at which point I just tell myself it is still in development.
<b><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->kabab<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>, while I don't fully appreciate the overall tone of harshness that comes about your writing, I sympathize with you wholeheartedly. NS1 was simple and straight to the point. For me, NS1 was like a good basketball or football game.. complexities arose from simple mechanics.
Oh one last thought.. if Alien commander is so asymmetrical, then why celebrate the fact that successful alien commanders do not dedicate the whole game to that role? To me, if it is acceptable that someone bails out of that position regularly in order to be successful, then maybe something is wrong with that mechanic. I'd like to see a gorge evolve to a "commanding role" just as a skulk evolves to a gorge. This commanding role directly effects players to a degree at which point can de-evolve to a gorge/skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with those two posts.
<!--quoteo(post=1959155:date=Aug 8 2012, 04:59 PM:name=NolSinkler)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NolSinkler @ Aug 8 2012, 04:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959155"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also I miss my gorge webs :'(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I miss them too. :( Clogs are a horrible replacement.
I only have a hash tone because for years myself and countless other have been nicely giving feedback and supporting NS2 doing what we can to make it successful..
All we get in return is the dev team saying yes we are listening to feedback and implementing changes but in realilty they ignore a lot of community feedback and then only make changes when it becomes embarrasingly obvious that the change was completely wrong...
i really dislike how some people want to talk in the name of others (the whole/vast majority/ns1/veterans etc. community). Isn't it enough to say "in my opinion, as a ns1 vet, i think .... , many others i talked to think so too."? Maybe ask if the the whole/vast majority/ns1/veterans etc. community agrees before stating they do....
For the sake of politeness people, speak for yourselves!
I hate when people want to speak for me generally. It's bad mannered and disingenuous.
Just read through years of forum history it is there for everyone to see..
They really should add a poll feature and survey players the guild wars 2 beta had a nice little in game survey that people could fill out on different aspects of the game as they completed them...
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1959158:date=Aug 8 2012, 04:14 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Aug 8 2012, 04:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959158"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just as a recent example, how is the lerk ever supposed to work as a fragile 30 res full melee lifeform? How is it going to play out against any decent aimer if the performance goes up?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It is a mystery.
As the lerk only has melee attacks on 1 hive, shotguns represent a near-hard counter to lerks until the second hive is up. This problem is exacerbated by the relatively no-downside option for the marines to research fast shotguns, meaning the marine team can, and often is, kitted out with shotguns several minutes before the first alien can even accumulate enough res to evolve to lerk. Once hive2 is up and spikes are researched, the lerk can fortunately hold its own, although this may change when/if performance improves.
<!--quoteo(post=1959195:date=Aug 8 2012, 05:13 PM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Aug 8 2012, 05:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959195"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Last time I checked, pancaking was still effecting in NS2. I mean, woe is me that you might need to use <i>skill</i> to effectively play lerk ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Pancaking is somewhat less effective (lower speed cap) and bite DPS is lower than even the humble gorge spit.
Long time lurker, NS1 player and "the-moment-it-was-buyable"-NS2 player here.
Very unsatisfied. I have heard the argument 'the game will be better next year' for the past 2 years :D
I'm very sorry Flayra but NS2 is just not fun (FOR ME). I can't really put it in words but I really wish this would be a 1:1 remake of NS1. I'll try to list a few points:
- Free Marine relocation in NS1 (unbalanced maybe but FUN - and when you do pull of that Alien win - awesome!) - Performance ( server & client - you know when the 15th player joins it's GG server-cpu wise, don't get me startet on client performance (although it has gotten better) - Alien Commander (completely boring for me - I don't know how someone can play this role and say it's fun, while the NS1 gorgefest was FUN)
Like I said, it's hard to actually put in words but ... somehow the gameplay-'flow' of NS2 is broken, I don't know.
Still, I wish you (NS2 developement team) the best of luck with this game, you deserve some money (because you made NS1 *G*) - I'm gonna check this game from time to time, see if it's fun yet :D
Sorry for my bad english, it's not my first language :)
blindJoin Date: 2010-04-17Member: 71437Members, Squad Five Gold
Since the alien commander and symmetric res model seems to be most discussed change from Cory's viewpoint, I'll pick that one up.
What I find quite disappointing is that there is almost no alien lifeform strategies left for players as a result of the new res model.
In NS1 you had to put roles amongst your team, fast lerk, fast fade, hive/2nd fade, chambers, rts etc. In NS2 the tactics go like "1 gorge, 1 lerk, rest save for fade/onos" for example. This ends up with a long gameplay with skulks, entering the midgame with a lerk, and suddenly 3-4 fades popup in the later game. Unless marines overpower you. Like 90% of all lost alien rounds I played so far we didn't even get to fades since the game went bad and we F4'ed at the 10 min mark or so - without any fade ever entering the battle field. Even when absolutely getting dominated in NS1, you almost always at least got the fade out.
Those roles and strategies about it were heavily important, as it was important to listen to your captain on what to do with your res. In NS2 gathers you don't even need to listen as long as you aren't chosen to be the gorge. Just look at the minimap, do the usual teamwork thingy and when you hit 50 res go fade. I won't start putting examples of what you had to diverse in NS1 with the res managment, coming with all the strategic thinking behind, because I could write books about it. Now it's just the kham and the lifeforms. And the kham role seems to be pretty boring besides.
Alot of lost depth in strategies imo. Although it has positive features, too, of course. I like buying a weapon on my own now, even when I hated it at start. And it's not always the same people chosen for the carry roles (SG/lerk/fade) as it turned out in NS1 competitive. And you don't need to yell in pubs because everyone is res whoring while sitting on 1 rt. I don't even know how I'd have decided as responsible game designer in this, so I do respect the decision UWE made. So much for the over-criticized alien comm and symmetrical res models.
But that's just one observation, there is many more. To answer the thread opener, I have to say yes and no. I feel NS1 was way more fluent and fun to play (MOVEMENTS: I feel sooo slow and clumsy now!) than NS2, but I see where many changes come from. If they end up in a higher player base and an very active competitive community I shall be happy. And it's not like I don't have fun playing NS2 - I prefer it over any other multiplayer FPS (except NS1), so it can't be so bad at all, can it?
<!--quoteo(post=1959229:date=Aug 8 2012, 10:29 AM:name=blind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blind @ Aug 8 2012, 10:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since the alien commander and symmetric res model seems to be most discussed change from Cory's viewpoint, I'll pick that one up.
What I find quite disappointing is that there is almost no alien lifeform strategies left for players as a result of the new res model.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While very true, I personally feel the new res model works better due to it being much easier to scale for larger games. Having an inherent disadvantage as your team got bigger was a big annoyance for the Aliens while the Marines still maintained their flexible spending nature.
I think if we add in a few more ways for Aliens to help spend their PRes we'd be in good shape.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1959057:date=Aug 8 2012, 03:35 AM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Aug 8 2012, 03:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959057"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->300,000 people played and loved NS1 that is 300,000 low hanging fruit fans you can extract $35 from or $10,500,000 if you had 300k active players right now how much more do you think this game would grow??? Currently the amount of people on servers is well a big worry... Instead of searching for this mystical customers that may not exist pay attention to ones that put all that money in your bank accounts and made the game possible...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm a bit curious where you got the 300k NS1 player numbers. I have no doubt that 300k players played NS1 at one time over the past 10 years, but the active playerbase was always a fraction of that from what I recall. I suspect that there were quite a few people that installed NS1, got frustrated with it, and left, since it was a bit of a hard game to get into.
For comparison, it only takes an active playercount of about 750 to make <a href="http://store.steampowered.com/stats/" target="_blank">Steams top 100</a> of actively played games. That's roughly 42, full 18 player servers, which I think NS2 can reasonably achieve, since my count of the current playercount (via <a href="http://hypernovadesign.co.uk/nanogrid/" target="_blank">Nanogrid</a>) gives me the equivalent of roughly 17 full servers.
Also, I seem to be the odd one out, but when I'm alien comm, I stay in the hive for the majority of the time, only stepping out to help repel attacks and drop/heal as gorge. I think people are vastly underestimating the value of - Minimizing the accumulation of TRes (imo, you should never accumulate more TRes than your next upgrade and never anything over the most expensive structure/upgrade value of 40 TRes) - Undervaluing the usefulness of gathering and providing timely info from the comm view
The last one is particularly important for me, because the existing feedback (minimap/pop up warnings) are particularly woeful and slow imo. For example, I can usually tell where and how many marines are in a location just by listening for the footsteps while hovering over a location. Also, determining the number and weapon type of marines attacking a location is very important for determining how many and what type of aliens should be sent as a response (one lmg marine shooting the hive gets a different response than 5 GL marines). While you can do some of this by only part-time comming, you're leaving yourself at risk to missing important factors such as a GL or JP rush on a hive.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1959229:date=Aug 8 2012, 06:29 PM:name=blind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blind @ Aug 8 2012, 06:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unless marines overpower you. Like 90% of all lost alien rounds I played so far we didn't even get to fades since the game went bad and we F4'ed at the 10 min mark or so - without any fade ever entering the battle field. Even when absolutely getting dominated in NS1, you almost always at least got the fade out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agree with the rest of your post, but this right here is a very important observation. When the aliens are behind, chances are they'll lose the round before they can afford any fades. The exact reason why this is happening is hard to pinpoint, but I think it is a combination of the following:
1. No res for kills (the single most important factor). Without RFK, aliens are absolutely dependant on their harvesters to get enough res for a hive.
2. Small maps/fast marine respawn times/sprint/etc; basically everything that's contributing to the extremely frantic nature of NS2 gameplay at the moment. This has a significant impact on alien resflow because the short amount of time it takes for successive marine assaults to travel from their spawn queue to the alien harvesters mean that aliens have a much harder time keeping said harvesters alive.
3. No pres gain while in the spawn queue. This is one of the silliest features currently in NS2 and it's having detrimental effects on gameplay across the board. In this case it simply serves as a sandbag for alien pres accumulation.
4. Less pres for each alien at the start of the round. Obviously this means it's going to take longer until any one player can accumulate the 50 pres needed to evolve to fade, subsequently giving marines more time to kill alien harvesters...
The end result of all this is that aliens typically see their first fade hatch at between 8-14 minutes into the game, depending on the strategy, when they're ahead in the early game. If the aliens are behind in the early game, however, it can take as long as 20+ minutes, which also happens to be longer than many games last. Compare that to NS1 (6v6), where you'd typically see fades hatch between 3-5 minutes into the game if the aliens were ahead and between 4-8 minutes if the aliens were behind.
Considering how important the fade is for the alien team's success, it's clear that something is rotten in the state of Kharaamark.
<!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Please leave judgement of attitudes to forum moderators. Attacking people for being upset is not helpful.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Other than that, carry on, everyone.
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
I just want to make this point. I remember I first started playing in NS v. 2.0.
When I first came to the forum, there were <i>tons</i> of complaints about how NS had gone in the wrong direction since NS v. 1.04. And when 3.0 happened, people complained that with the fixed alien hitboxes, now the aliens were way to easy to kill. I seem to remember somebody referring to the 3.0 fade as a "paper tiger". Regardless, always complaints. It's as if the developers should never have changed anything since the very first build!
So I'm just glad to see that the community hasn't changed a bit. :D
<!--quoteo(post=1959293:date=Aug 8 2012, 03:29 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Aug 8 2012, 03:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959293"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. No pres gain while in the spawn queue. This is one of the silliest features currently in NS2 and it's having detrimental effects on gameplay across the board. In this case it simply serves as a sandbag for alien pres accumulation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
true. perhaps the full pres amount should be awarded per tick & then distributed among the living. so there is no net loss of pres for just being in the queue. but that would still stagger the res to prevent an explosion of fades or whathaveyou.
SecurityJoin Date: 2005-01-07Member: 33133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1959229:date=Aug 8 2012, 07:29 PM:name=blind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blind @ Aug 8 2012, 07:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Since the alien commander and symmetric res model seems to be most discussed change from Cory's viewpoint, I'll pick that one up.
What I find quite disappointing is that there is almost no alien lifeform strategies left for players as a result of the new res model.
In NS1 you had to put roles amongst your team, fast lerk, fast fade, hive/2nd fade, chambers, rts etc. In NS2 the tactics go like "1 gorge, 1 lerk, rest save for fade/onos" for example. This ends up with a long gameplay with skulks, entering the midgame with a lerk, and suddenly 3-4 fades popup in the later game. Unless marines overpower you. Like 90% of all lost alien rounds I played so far we didn't even get to fades since the game went bad and we F4'ed at the 10 min mark or so - without any fade ever entering the battle field. Even when absolutely getting dominated in NS1, you almost always at least got the fade out.
Those roles and strategies about it were heavily important, as it was important to listen to your captain on what to do with your res. In NS2 gathers you don't even need to listen as long as you aren't chosen to be the gorge. Just look at the minimap, do the usual teamwork thingy and when you hit 50 res go fade. I won't start putting examples of what you had to diverse in NS1 with the res managment, coming with all the strategic thinking behind, because I could write books about it. Now it's just the kham and the lifeforms. And the kham role seems to be pretty boring besides.
Alot of lost depth in strategies imo. Although it has positive features, too, of course. I like buying a weapon on my own now, even when I hated it at start. And it's not always the same people chosen for the carry roles (SG/lerk/fade) as it turned out in NS1 competitive. And you don't need to yell in pubs because everyone is res whoring while sitting on 1 rt. I don't even know how I'd have decided as responsible game designer in this, so I do respect the decision UWE made. So much for the over-criticized alien comm and symmetrical res models.
But that's just one observation, there is many more. To answer the thread opener, I have to say yes and no. I feel NS1 was way more fluent and fun to play (MOVEMENTS: I feel sooo slow and clumsy now!) than NS2, but I see where many changes come from. If they end up in a higher player base and an very active competitive community I shall be happy. And it's not like I don't have fun playing NS2 - I prefer it over any other multiplayer FPS (except NS1), so it can't be so bad at all, can it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Just out of interest, are the 'in-depth discussions' referring to some PT-Dev vent talk or something? I've always felt there's more than enough of dev-community talk in general, but always felt that the deeper discussion is missing big time.
And how many of those were made by a team of < 10?
Really unfair comparision TBH, while im sure everyone would love NS2 to become that popular on release its highly unlikely just due to the nature of the game... Thats not to say given time post 1.0 that the game wont grow to be a e-sport, but expecting instant success on that scale is just crazy, and downright ignorant.
I really hope that people do not think every old NS1 player thinks this way...
So you either hit it out of the ball park on release or fade into oblivion...
There are only a handful of big e-sport games and most of them came from mods / small teams and are now massive franchises..
Even SWRTOR failed hard after $300 mil development cost and massive marketing because the game play was meh and they didn't listen to their customers...
Over half the Playtesters and Map Testers are veterans from NS1, both public and competitive. UWE hears on a daily basis just as many thoughts and points of view from us as they do from the forums (only in internal chat rooms and TeamSpeak Discussions). A lot of the time the voices are in unison about a lot of things, others not so much (just like in this thread). Ultimately, we give UWE thoughts ideas and choices but it's up to them to show us the path for NS2.
Did Dota 2 have < 10 people working on the game?
How many years did it take Starcraft to become the game it is today?
Any game can fail no matter how many people work on it and no matter how much money is thrown at it... That has no real relevancy to NS2 however.
The point here (in this thread) is to try to bring more attention to some of the things that made NS1 great, and that they are missing in NS2... not to try and tear NS2 apart for some of the new mechanics like alien commander.
What do I love about NS2?
I love the lerk. Seriously. But I've always loved lerk.
Power nodes. Yeah, I'm crazy, nobody else likes them. I think it adds a new element of strategy.
Infestation. It's a cool concept and one that needs to be in the game. Definitely an improvement over NS1.
Playing as an alien. Playing as a marine. Honestly I just like the game.
What could be changed?
Obviously there needs to be improvement in performance.
I think the gorge should be able to do more. Which isn't to say that the alien commander is bad. I like it. I just think the gorge should be able to do more. Perhaps more structures. Perhaps creating cysts. Gorge and commander should work hand in hand. There is already a lot of synergy between the commander and gorge and I think that this should only be increased. Also I miss my gorge webs :'(
Metabolize for fade. I think this would be a good addition. Or something else. I don't like that the fade has only three attacks.
New attack for onos. Something else.
But overall I like the game and think it has great potential. I've successfully gotten a friend to buy into the beta and he loves it. So yeah. It looks good.
Of course there is disagreement between the developers and the hardcore NS1 community in regards to what we believe needed to be changed. Alien commander, obviously a huge controversial change, is one area where we have voiced our reasons why it was added, time and time again, but is often listed as one of the "worst" changes in NS2. We probably can't change people's minds on that who believe it was a mistake, all we can say is that we deeply believe it was the right and necessary change to make.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it makes zero sense to remove the working ideas, and replace them with things you still improving which doesn't work. Forcing things to work only shows you learned nothing from ns1 over the years. Removing working ideas (worked for years), adding more ways to limit players and forcing bad ideas to work....
And most recent change to gorges by charlie, how would that solve the gorge problem? the class feels so hollow compared how he used to be. If you say you listen to the community, how is the recent change remotely reflect on opinions in this thread, and countless others people made?
"we wanted to take up the daunting challenge of creating a sequel that could respect what came before, but build on it and improve on it, and make it something new. "
how are you respecting ns1 by changing things that used to work fine. How are you improving something with ideas that do not work, and forcing them to work.
it doesn't feel you understood your own community on what used to work, what people loved and what the game is missing if you're telling us your current ideas actually suppose to be an improvement from ns1 ideas.
I had no intention of questioning the competence of PTs or anything like that, I know very few people from that group. What I was mostly trying to say is that whatever in depth discussion there has been, it doesn't really end up showing outside the inner circle. I still have no clue on what's the plan on many things and I have no idea what is the purpose or intention with multitude of features and decisions.
Just as a recent example, how is the lerk ever supposed to work as a fragile 30 res full melee lifeform? How is it going to play out against any decent aimer if the performance goes up?
With alterations to the damage and hp of the lerk if necessary, brought in to balance as performance increases over the next few builds :)
But increasing the health of a melee lifeform unbalances them in defensive/ambush situations... It needs the option to stay at range when necessary.
Increase the Lerk's HP to where it can survive multiple close-range point-blank shotgun-shots to the face? Because that is what Bacillus is referring to when performance increases and people can actually start to aim properly.
I'm not sure what the problem is. Lerk was melee in NS1 except for his spores. Spores now are nigh impossible to see through so it works out. Also there are spikes. Spikes are not melee. Spikes are good for killing marines.
I was a competitive player and I had looked forward to NS2 like.. just about everyone back in the day. I was aware that NS2 was going to be an evolution and I hold on to something Charlie said he read in some game/developer book:
it was something along these lines: "For a successful sequel, you need to retain some 70% of the original game and 30% of new ideas"
I am left with the impression that there are some ideas that UWE are not willing to let go or change and will sacrifice other elements to maintain those "prized" ideas.
Now, I don't totally dislike NS2. I was beginning to enjoy parts of it and willing to accept that, circa 201/205, was an unfinished product, but despite the many elements that were ALREADY INCORPORATED in to the game, NS2 did not really do it for me. I feel like NS2 is going through an identity crisis at which point I just tell myself it is still in development.
<b><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->kabab<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>, while I don't fully appreciate the overall tone of harshness that comes about your writing, I sympathize with you wholeheartedly. NS1 was simple and straight to the point. For me, NS1 was like a good basketball or football game.. complexities arose from simple mechanics.
Oh one last thought.. if Alien commander is so asymmetrical, then why celebrate the fact that successful alien commanders do not dedicate the whole game to that role? To me, if it is acceptable that someone bails out of that position regularly in order to be successful, then maybe something is wrong with that mechanic. I'd like to see a gorge evolve to a "commanding role" just as a skulk evolves to a gorge. This commanding role directly effects players to a degree at which point can de-evolve to a gorge/skulk.
And most recent change to gorges by charlie, how would that solve the gorge problem? the class feels so hollow compared how he used to be. If you say you listen to the community, how is the recent change remotely reflect on opinions in this thread, and countless others people made?
"we wanted to take up the daunting challenge of creating a sequel that could respect what came before, but build on it and improve on it, and make it something new. "
how are you respecting ns1 by changing things that used to work fine. How are you improving something with ideas that do not work, and forcing them to work.
it doesn't feel you understood your own community on what used to work, what people loved and what the game is missing if you're telling us your current ideas actually suppose to be an improvement from ns1 ideas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1959171:date=Aug 8 2012, 05:36 PM:name=MrRadicalEd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MrRadicalEd @ Aug 8 2012, 05:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959171"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm a NS1 "old timer". Personally, I stopped playing around 201 because of performance reasons. There were other reasons why I jumped ship; however, I am familiar with this process and I just told myself begrudgingly that everything will settle in place by the final release at which point I will take another stab.
I was a competitive player and I had looked forward to NS2 like.. just about everyone back in the day. I was aware that NS2 was going to be an evolution and I hold on to something Charlie said he read in some game/developer book:
it was something along these lines: "For a successful sequel, you need to retain some 70% of the original game and 30% of new ideas"
I am left with the impression that there are some ideas that UWE are not willing to let go or change and will sacrifice other elements to maintain those "prized" ideas.
Now, I don't totally dislike NS2. I was beginning to enjoy parts of it and willing to accept that, circa 201/205, was an unfinished product, but despite the many elements that were ALREADY INCORPORATED in to the game, NS2 did not really do it for me. I feel like NS2 is going through an identity crisis at which point I just tell myself it is still in development.
<b><!--coloro:#FF00FF--><span style="color:#FF00FF"><!--/coloro-->kabab<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>, while I don't fully appreciate the overall tone of harshness that comes about your writing, I sympathize with you wholeheartedly. NS1 was simple and straight to the point. For me, NS1 was like a good basketball or football game.. complexities arose from simple mechanics.
Oh one last thought.. if Alien commander is so asymmetrical, then why celebrate the fact that successful alien commanders do not dedicate the whole game to that role? To me, if it is acceptable that someone bails out of that position regularly in order to be successful, then maybe something is wrong with that mechanic. I'd like to see a gorge evolve to a "commanding role" just as a skulk evolves to a gorge. This commanding role directly effects players to a degree at which point can de-evolve to a gorge/skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with those two posts.
<!--quoteo(post=1959155:date=Aug 8 2012, 04:59 PM:name=NolSinkler)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NolSinkler @ Aug 8 2012, 04:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959155"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also I miss my gorge webs :'(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I miss them too. :(
Clogs are a horrible replacement.
All we get in return is the dev team saying yes we are listening to feedback and implementing changes but in realilty they ignore a lot of community feedback and then only make changes when it becomes embarrasingly obvious that the change was completely wrong...
Isn't it enough to say "in my opinion, as a ns1 vet, i think .... , many others i talked to think so too."?
Maybe ask if the the whole/vast majority/ns1/veterans etc. community agrees before stating they do....
For the sake of politeness people, speak for yourselves!
I hate when people want to speak for me generally. It's bad mannered and disingenuous.
They really should add a poll feature and survey players the guild wars 2 beta had a nice little in game survey that people could fill out on different aspects of the game as they completed them...
It is a mystery.
As the lerk only has melee attacks on 1 hive, shotguns represent a near-hard counter to lerks until the second hive is up. This problem is exacerbated by the relatively no-downside option for the marines to research fast shotguns, meaning the marine team can, and often is, kitted out with shotguns several minutes before the first alien can even accumulate enough res to evolve to lerk. Once hive2 is up and spikes are researched, the lerk can fortunately hold its own, although this may change when/if performance improves.
<!--quoteo(post=1959195:date=Aug 8 2012, 05:13 PM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Aug 8 2012, 05:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959195"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Last time I checked, pancaking was still effecting in NS2. I mean, woe is me that you might need to use <i>skill</i> to effectively play lerk ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pancaking is somewhat less effective (lower speed cap) and bite DPS is lower than even the humble gorge spit.
Very unsatisfied. I have heard the argument 'the game will be better next year' for the past 2 years :D
I'm very sorry Flayra but NS2 is just not fun (FOR ME). I can't really put it in words but I really wish this would be a 1:1 remake of NS1. I'll try to list a few points:
- Free Marine relocation in NS1 (unbalanced maybe but FUN - and when you do pull of that Alien win - awesome!)
- Performance ( server & client - you know when the 15th player joins it's GG server-cpu wise, don't get me startet on client performance (although it has gotten better)
- Alien Commander (completely boring for me - I don't know how someone can play this role and say it's fun, while the NS1 gorgefest was FUN)
Like I said, it's hard to actually put in words but ... somehow the gameplay-'flow' of NS2 is broken, I don't know.
Still, I wish you (NS2 developement team) the best of luck with this game, you deserve some money (because you made NS1 *G*) - I'm gonna check this game from time to time, see if it's fun yet :D
Sorry for my bad english, it's not my first language :)
Back to lurking!
What I find quite disappointing is that there is almost no alien lifeform strategies left for players as a result of the new res model.
In NS1 you had to put roles amongst your team, fast lerk, fast fade, hive/2nd fade, chambers, rts etc. In NS2 the tactics go like "1 gorge, 1 lerk, rest save for fade/onos" for example. This ends up with a long gameplay with skulks, entering the midgame with a lerk, and suddenly 3-4 fades popup in the later game. Unless marines overpower you. Like 90% of all lost alien rounds I played so far we didn't even get to fades since the game went bad and we F4'ed at the 10 min mark or so - without any fade ever entering the battle field. Even when absolutely getting dominated in NS1, you almost always at least got the fade out.
Those roles and strategies about it were heavily important, as it was important to listen to your captain on what to do with your res. In NS2 gathers you don't even need to listen as long as you aren't chosen to be the gorge. Just look at the minimap, do the usual teamwork thingy and when you hit 50 res go fade. I won't start putting examples of what you had to diverse in NS1 with the res managment, coming with all the strategic thinking behind, because I could write books about it. Now it's just the kham and the lifeforms. And the kham role seems to be pretty boring besides.
Alot of lost depth in strategies imo. Although it has positive features, too, of course. I like buying a weapon on my own now, even when I hated it at start. And it's not always the same people chosen for the carry roles (SG/lerk/fade) as it turned out in NS1 competitive. And you don't need to yell in pubs because everyone is res whoring while sitting on 1 rt. I don't even know how I'd have decided as responsible game designer in this, so I do respect the decision UWE made. So much for the over-criticized alien comm and symmetrical res models.
But that's just one observation, there is many more. To answer the thread opener, I have to say yes and no. I feel NS1 was way more fluent and fun to play (MOVEMENTS: I feel sooo slow and clumsy now!) than NS2, but I see where many changes come from. If they end up in a higher player base and an very active competitive community I shall be happy. And it's not like I don't have fun playing NS2 - I prefer it over any other multiplayer FPS (except NS1), so it can't be so bad at all, can it?
What I find quite disappointing is that there is almost no alien lifeform strategies left for players as a result of the new res model.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
While very true, I personally feel the new res model works better due to it being much easier to scale for larger games. Having an inherent disadvantage as your team got bigger was a big annoyance for the Aliens while the Marines still maintained their flexible spending nature.
I think if we add in a few more ways for Aliens to help spend their PRes we'd be in good shape.
<a href="http://poll.pollcode.com/m8w9" target="_blank">http://poll.pollcode.com/m8w9</a>
I'm a bit curious where you got the 300k NS1 player numbers. I have no doubt that 300k players played NS1 at one time over the past 10 years, but the active playerbase was always a fraction of that from what I recall. I suspect that there were quite a few people that installed NS1, got frustrated with it, and left, since it was a bit of a hard game to get into.
For comparison, it only takes an active playercount of about 750 to make <a href="http://store.steampowered.com/stats/" target="_blank">Steams top 100</a> of actively played games. That's roughly 42, full 18 player servers, which I think NS2 can reasonably achieve, since my count of the current playercount (via <a href="http://hypernovadesign.co.uk/nanogrid/" target="_blank">Nanogrid</a>) gives me the equivalent of roughly 17 full servers.
Also, I seem to be the odd one out, but when I'm alien comm, I stay in the hive for the majority of the time, only stepping out to help repel attacks and drop/heal as gorge. I think people are vastly underestimating the value of
- Minimizing the accumulation of TRes (imo, you should never accumulate more TRes than your next upgrade and never anything over the most expensive structure/upgrade value of 40 TRes)
- Undervaluing the usefulness of gathering and providing timely info from the comm view
The last one is particularly important for me, because the existing feedback (minimap/pop up warnings) are particularly woeful and slow imo. For example, I can usually tell where and how many marines are in a location just by listening for the footsteps while hovering over a location. Also, determining the number and weapon type of marines attacking a location is very important for determining how many and what type of aliens should be sent as a response (one lmg marine shooting the hive gets a different response than 5 GL marines). While you can do some of this by only part-time comming, you're leaving yourself at risk to missing important factors such as a GL or JP rush on a hive.
Agree with the rest of your post, but this right here is a very important observation. When the aliens are behind, chances are they'll lose the round before they can afford any fades. The exact reason why this is happening is hard to pinpoint, but I think it is a combination of the following:
1. No res for kills (the single most important factor). Without RFK, aliens are absolutely dependant on their harvesters to get enough res for a hive.
2. Small maps/fast marine respawn times/sprint/etc; basically everything that's contributing to the extremely frantic nature of NS2 gameplay at the moment. This has a significant impact on alien resflow because the short amount of time it takes for successive marine assaults to travel from their spawn queue to the alien harvesters mean that aliens have a much harder time keeping said harvesters alive.
3. No pres gain while in the spawn queue. This is one of the silliest features currently in NS2 and it's having detrimental effects on gameplay across the board. In this case it simply serves as a sandbag for alien pres accumulation.
4. Less pres for each alien at the start of the round. Obviously this means it's going to take longer until any one player can accumulate the 50 pres needed to evolve to fade, subsequently giving marines more time to kill alien harvesters...
The end result of all this is that aliens typically see their first fade hatch at between 8-14 minutes into the game, depending on the strategy, when they're ahead in the early game. If the aliens are behind in the early game, however, it can take as long as 20+ minutes, which also happens to be longer than many games last. Compare that to NS1 (6v6), where you'd typically see fades hatch between 3-5 minutes into the game if the aliens were ahead and between 4-8 minutes if the aliens were behind.
Considering how important the fade is for the alien team's success, it's clear that something is rotten in the state of Kharaamark.
Other than that, carry on, everyone.
I remember I first started playing in NS v. 2.0.
When I first came to the forum, there were <i>tons</i> of complaints about how NS had gone in the wrong direction since NS v. 1.04. And when 3.0 happened, people complained that with the fixed alien hitboxes, now the aliens were way to easy to kill. I seem to remember somebody referring to the 3.0 fade as a "paper tiger". Regardless, always complaints. It's as if the developers should never have changed anything since the very first build!
So I'm just glad to see that the community hasn't changed a bit. :D
true. perhaps the full pres amount should be awarded per tick & then distributed among the living. so there is no net loss of pres for just being in the queue. but that would still stagger the res to prevent an explosion of fades or whathaveyou.
What I find quite disappointing is that there is almost no alien lifeform strategies left for players as a result of the new res model.
In NS1 you had to put roles amongst your team, fast lerk, fast fade, hive/2nd fade, chambers, rts etc. In NS2 the tactics go like "1 gorge, 1 lerk, rest save for fade/onos" for example. This ends up with a long gameplay with skulks, entering the midgame with a lerk, and suddenly 3-4 fades popup in the later game. Unless marines overpower you. Like 90% of all lost alien rounds I played so far we didn't even get to fades since the game went bad and we F4'ed at the 10 min mark or so - without any fade ever entering the battle field. Even when absolutely getting dominated in NS1, you almost always at least got the fade out.
Those roles and strategies about it were heavily important, as it was important to listen to your captain on what to do with your res. In NS2 gathers you don't even need to listen as long as you aren't chosen to be the gorge. Just look at the minimap, do the usual teamwork thingy and when you hit 50 res go fade. I won't start putting examples of what you had to diverse in NS1 with the res managment, coming with all the strategic thinking behind, because I could write books about it. Now it's just the kham and the lifeforms. And the kham role seems to be pretty boring besides.
Alot of lost depth in strategies imo. Although it has positive features, too, of course. I like buying a weapon on my own now, even when I hated it at start. And it's not always the same people chosen for the carry roles (SG/lerk/fade) as it turned out in NS1 competitive. And you don't need to yell in pubs because everyone is res whoring while sitting on 1 rt. I don't even know how I'd have decided as responsible game designer in this, so I do respect the decision UWE made. So much for the over-criticized alien comm and symmetrical res models.
But that's just one observation, there is many more. To answer the thread opener, I have to say yes and no. I feel NS1 was way more fluent and fun to play (MOVEMENTS: I feel sooo slow and clumsy now!) than NS2, but I see where many changes come from. If they end up in a higher player base and an very active competitive community I shall be happy. And it's not like I don't have fun playing NS2 - I prefer it over any other multiplayer FPS (except NS1), so it can't be so bad at all, can it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True.