i didn't know you can shoot the lowest clog to destroy the wall. thanks for that tip. i know that you could chase a gorge through ocs in ns1 if your commander helped, or the gorge didn't shoot well. That's what i want to have in ns2 as well. i just had the feeling this wasn't possible, but i'll have to check it out, now that i know about the clogs. A lot of players don't seem to know about this as well, otherwise i think i'd see gorgewalls and gorges destroyed more frequently.
what do you think about the idea of remote detonated cysts for the gorge? That was what i actually wanted to suggest. The clog idea was related to this, since it bugged me early game.
edit: mustn't be cysts, could be exploding goo bombs as wel :)
edit 2: just read the rest of your post botchiball, and i have to agree, that it's a pain for the gorge and the khamm, that the gorge is so vital in getting structures up, especially RTs and the hive. I don't know, but is it still possible to speed up building structures with mist? This could at least ease the situation a bit.
<!--quoteo(post=1960609:date=Aug 10 2012, 02:31 PM:name=3del!)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (3del! @ Aug 10 2012, 02:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960609"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->edit 2: just read the rest of your post botchiball, and i have to agree, that it's a pain for the gorge and the khamm, that the gorge is so vital in getting structures up, especially RTs and the hive. I don't know, but is it still possible to speed up building structures with mist? This could at least ease the situation a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, Misting a structure to build faster is what I'm leaning toward. The Gorge really just needs to separate himself from the equation.
<!--quoteo(post=1960585:date=Aug 10 2012, 01:41 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Aug 10 2012, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960585"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And if they aren't, the comm can give them advice and drop a nanoshield to help them break through.
It's part of learning the game. In NS1 it was often worth it to suicide and get a Gorge behind OCs, or just run past OCs. New players though would get stuck trying to shoot it down, wasting time and resources until they learned better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> If part of "learning the game" is to realize that a Gorge is actually completely worthless if you ignore his structures, then there is a problem.
the gorge needs to be defended if marines ignore his structures. Just as it was in NS1. That being said, there is a rather big problem with nano shield for all lifeforms.
<!--quoteo(post=1960641:date=Aug 10 2012, 12:30 PM:name=botchiball)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (botchiball @ Aug 10 2012, 12:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960641"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If part of "learning the game" is to realize that a Gorge is actually completely worthless if you ignore his structures, then there is a problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not completely worthless. It's a free way to slow down and deal damage to Marines. And if you ambush them with Skulks around the Gorge's encampment, you're almost assured to crush the Marines.
It's just a solo Gorge can't and should be able to hold up against 2-3 Marines. They can slow them down and give huge advantage of Aliens fighting in the area, but they shouldn't be able to block off half the map unsupported.
<!--quoteo(post=1960662:date=Aug 10 2012, 03:58 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Aug 10 2012, 03:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960662"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not completely worthless. It's a free way to slow down and deal damage to Marines. And if you ambush them with Skulks around the Gorge's encampment, you're almost assured to crush the Marines.
It's just a solo Gorge can't and should be able to hold up against 2-3 Marines. They can slow them down and give huge advantage of Aliens fighting in the area, but they shouldn't be able to block off half the map unsupported.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> *Can't and Shouldn't*? I agree, a Gorge should be able to set up defense which slows marines down - the more marines, the less the slowdown. The problem I have is with the enormous discrepancy in how much time the Gorge requires to put in compared to how little time it takes a lone marine to push past them. Takes a Gorge about 45 seconds to a 1 min 15 seconds to set up a "Gorge Fort" - but it takes a lone marine less than 10 seconds max to break through it in early game. In late game its all of 1 second. It should at least take half the time of setting up to make it through in the early game - and late game the Clogs should still provide SOME sort of bonus, else why even have them?
Whats worse, since Clogs don't auto-kill themselves, if you leave Clogs across the map or if Marines push you out of your fort, you are at a loss of Clogs until they are destroyed, or the player dies and waits to go Gorge again. It simply should not be this way, it is illogical and annoying.
I wanted to make sure my times above were accurate, so I went and played for a bit. Happened to be in a location where there were 3 Gorges (myself included) who were able to keep the hallway blocked at Control from Server for quite a long time - essentially blocking half the map for the Marines. So whatever the massive guts to the Gorge did, it didn't help with the OP of multiple Gorges.
Used to love playing as a gorge in NS1 it, but when i bought NS2 and evolved into gorge... I was shocked! Everything that was fun in gorge is taken out... I miss ns1 system with no alien comm :(
How about let the gorge merge with buildings (crags, hydras etc..) and carry them on his back. Making the gorge a versitile mobile platform. And gain control of the buildings, like aiming the hydra spikes. Maybe with more hives let the gorge carry more stuff, but make him increasingly slower while doing so, making the gorge a crazy mutated blob by 4th hive :). Imaging a gorge with shade and few whips slowly crawling towards a unexpecting marine and whipping his ass. The possibilities are endless!
In NS1 I liked the gorges role and the lack of a khammander. IMO marines should be more organized and alien more zerg-like.
Comments
i know that you could chase a gorge through ocs in ns1 if your commander helped, or the gorge didn't shoot well. That's what i want to have in ns2 as well. i just had the feeling this wasn't possible, but i'll have to check it out, now that i know about the clogs. A lot of players don't seem to know about this as well, otherwise i think i'd see gorgewalls and gorges destroyed more frequently.
what do you think about the idea of remote detonated cysts for the gorge? That was what i actually wanted to suggest. The clog idea was related to this, since it bugged me early game.
edit: mustn't be cysts, could be exploding goo bombs as wel :)
edit 2: just read the rest of your post botchiball, and i have to agree, that it's a pain for the gorge and the khamm, that the gorge is so vital in getting structures up, especially RTs and the hive. I don't know, but is it still possible to speed up building structures with mist? This could at least ease the situation a bit.
Yeah, Misting a structure to build faster is what I'm leaning toward. The Gorge really just needs to separate himself from the equation.
<!--quoteo(post=1960585:date=Aug 10 2012, 01:41 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Aug 10 2012, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960585"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And if they aren't, the comm can give them advice and drop a nanoshield to help them break through.
It's part of learning the game. In NS1 it was often worth it to suicide and get a Gorge behind OCs, or just run past OCs. New players though would get stuck trying to shoot it down, wasting time and resources until they learned better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If part of "learning the game" is to realize that a Gorge is actually completely worthless if you ignore his structures, then there is a problem.
Not completely worthless. It's a free way to slow down and deal damage to Marines. And if you ambush them with Skulks around the Gorge's encampment, you're almost assured to crush the Marines.
It's just a solo Gorge can't and should be able to hold up against 2-3 Marines. They can slow them down and give huge advantage of Aliens fighting in the area, but they shouldn't be able to block off half the map unsupported.
It's just a solo Gorge can't and should be able to hold up against 2-3 Marines. They can slow them down and give huge advantage of Aliens fighting in the area, but they shouldn't be able to block off half the map unsupported.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Can't and Shouldn't*? I agree, a Gorge should be able to set up defense which slows marines down - the more marines, the less the slowdown. The problem I have is with the enormous discrepancy in how much time the Gorge requires to put in compared to how little time it takes a lone marine to push past them. Takes a Gorge about 45 seconds to a 1 min 15 seconds to set up a "Gorge Fort" - but it takes a lone marine less than 10 seconds max to break through it in early game. In late game its all of 1 second. It should at least take half the time of setting up to make it through in the early game - and late game the Clogs should still provide SOME sort of bonus, else why even have them?
Whats worse, since Clogs don't auto-kill themselves, if you leave Clogs across the map or if Marines push you out of your fort, you are at a loss of Clogs until they are destroyed, or the player dies and waits to go Gorge again. It simply should not be this way, it is illogical and annoying.
I wanted to make sure my times above were accurate, so I went and played for a bit. Happened to be in a location where there were 3 Gorges (myself included) who were able to keep the hallway blocked at Control from Server for quite a long time - essentially blocking half the map for the Marines. So whatever the massive guts to the Gorge did, it didn't help with the OP of multiple Gorges.
I miss ns1 system with no alien comm :(
In NS1 I liked the gorges role and the lack of a khammander. IMO marines should be more organized and alien more zerg-like.