No res while dead is horrible. Combined with horrible alien spawn, try have fun when you get killed and face a +20 second spawn queue with no res income.
I loved res for kills. Getting +1 pres per kill is hardly overpowering you, even if you got 10 kills more than everyone else you still aren't buying anything. But mentally, it was fun. Rewarding.
I think that the lack of this in ns2 has more to do with gamestyle than anything. It's kind of the same reason that there are not iron sights in the game, it just kinda wouldn't fit with the style of gameplay that UWE is trying to create. In my opinion of course.
Also another problem is that you'll make the game basically commander vs. commander rather than team vs. team
<b>OFF TOPIC</b>
I just realized that every post on a forum can be considered a free verse poem.
<!--quoteo(post=1959578:date=Aug 9 2012, 08:04 AM:name=elmo9000)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elmo9000 @ Aug 9 2012, 08:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959578"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, and if youre dying, youre already behind on the map control/resource tower count, and then you lose even more. Imo rewarding the better team rather than penalyzing(dunno if thats even a word) the already losing team, is in general a better idea. You can already see the cripling effect when you dont gain pres while dead. Especially on the alien side because as a skulk theres a big chance of dying during ambushes versus good marines. Of course gaining resforkills will get the winning team ahead(just like the current mechanic), but it wont directly cripple the losing team. If they would gain res even when dead, it would give them the chance of getting out lifeforms/equipment to save the day, even if theyre dying a lot, but atleast holding on in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not to mention passive players like gorges or "idlers" (ie. not good movement) gain and the ones who know where to be lose since they die more frequently.
<!--quoteo(post=1959752:date=Aug 9 2012, 10:15 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Aug 9 2012, 10:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1959752"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about nothing ?
Hidden modifiers and random pres shuffling left-and-right are bad, m'kay? We don't need them, m'kay?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed. NS2 has alot of them already, we don't want more.
Commanders are barely aware of all the hidden modifiers, if you have something thats:
1) hidden 2) player responsible 3) commander impacting
It will just lead to commanders raging at anyone who dies, and player raging when they don't get upgrades. Moan all you want about people being casual with their deaths - its fun. Its fun to charge in with little care for your life, only concern with the objective (kill an rt, clear a room, save the hive etc). Playing conservative is boring, and makes games boring to watch and play.
Esports is all about visceral combat, high skill ceilings and teamwork. This change would give the 3rd point at the cost of the first.
^ i admit to some baby splitting, which ns2 has too much of already. but should total pres on the field over time be based on the number of players OR the number of players that happen to be alive at the time of the tick? the latter is certainly more random and penalizes the team (less total pres) for lots of aggression.
perhaps this is fine as is, but it was brought up as one reason for slowing adv life forms & making it harder to recover when behind.
AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
Not currently a good time to try to implement something like this. especialy if you crash, or swap teams to ballance, you have 0 res afterwards. SO you would essentialy be unable to spawn, painfully so.
You can make spawning cost tres, but only if tres is allowed to go negative. Otherwise, you get into situations where a team can't spawn when they "should" be able to.
If the goal is to create a 'sudden death' situation when one team's macro is lacking (i.e. no res towers under control, spending to stay in the game) then limiting the resources given by each node (ala Starcraft) is the way to do it.
If the goal is to simply include 'player deaths' in how the teams are scoring, tres/pres is not the way to record those numbers. As an example: in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_Industry" target="_blank">Science & Industry</a>, the team's overall score (which is not 'spent' for in-game resources) is decreased by $750 each time a player spawns (the cost of cloning). In an otherwise-even game, the team that fought less effectively will lose, but they still get to play for the whole 20 minute round, with the opportunity to 'catch up' in the aggregate KDR race.
As for splitting up/sticking together, what you see in SC2 happens by design: the AI forces units to stick together into clumps ("deathball"), and very few units are actually good when used sparsely (usually things like dropships, DTs, infestors etc). The difference in NS2 is that any one player (analogous to a marine/zergling/roach/...) can be VERY effective with the right personal actions and circumstances. The effectiveness of players is capped, but not the same way it is for units in an RTS. People spreading out in NS2 doesn't necessarily mean they're ignorant of resource efficiency...it just means they're confident they can get something important done away from the main front.
Comments
Hidden modifiers and random pres shuffling left-and-right are bad, m'kay? We don't need them, m'kay?
Hidden modifiers and random pres shuffling left-and-right are bad, m'kay? We don't need them, m'kay?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you dont like current pres overflow?
I loved res for kills. Getting +1 pres per kill is hardly overpowering you, even if you got 10 kills more than everyone else you still aren't buying anything. But mentally, it was fun. Rewarding.
It's kind of the same reason that there are not iron sights in the game,
it just kinda wouldn't fit with the style of gameplay that UWE is trying to create.
In my opinion of course.
Also another problem is that you'll make the game basically commander vs. commander rather than team vs. team
<b>OFF TOPIC</b>
I just realized that every post on a forum can be considered
a free verse poem.
Not to mention passive players like gorges or "idlers" (ie. not good movement) gain and the ones who know where to be lose since they die more frequently.
Hidden modifiers and random pres shuffling left-and-right are bad, m'kay? We don't need them, m'kay?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed. NS2 has alot of them already, we don't want more.
Commanders are barely aware of all the hidden modifiers, if you have something thats:
1) hidden
2) player responsible
3) commander impacting
It will just lead to commanders raging at anyone who dies, and player raging when they don't get upgrades. Moan all you want about people being casual with their deaths - its fun. Its fun to charge in with little care for your life, only concern with the objective (kill an rt, clear a room, save the hive etc). Playing conservative is boring, and makes games boring to watch and play.
Esports is all about visceral combat, high skill ceilings and teamwork. This change would give the 3rd point at the cost of the first.
perhaps this is fine as is, but it was brought up as one reason for slowing adv life forms & making it harder to recover when behind.
Because currently, aliens are losing more pres as they stay dead longer thanks to wave spawning / broken egg spawning in large games.
SO you would essentialy be unable to spawn, painfully so.
If the goal is to create a 'sudden death' situation when one team's macro is lacking (i.e. no res towers under control, spending to stay in the game) then limiting the resources given by each node (ala Starcraft) is the way to do it.
If the goal is to simply include 'player deaths' in how the teams are scoring, tres/pres is not the way to record those numbers. As an example: in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_Industry" target="_blank">Science & Industry</a>, the team's overall score (which is not 'spent' for in-game resources) is decreased by $750 each time a player spawns (the cost of cloning). In an otherwise-even game, the team that fought less effectively will lose, but they still get to play for the whole 20 minute round, with the opportunity to 'catch up' in the aggregate KDR race.
As for splitting up/sticking together, what you see in SC2 happens by design: the AI forces units to stick together into clumps ("deathball"), and very few units are actually good when used sparsely (usually things like dropships, DTs, infestors etc). The difference in NS2 is that any one player (analogous to a marine/zergling/roach/...) can be VERY effective with the right personal actions and circumstances. The effectiveness of players is capped, but not the same way it is for units in an RTS. People spreading out in NS2 doesn't necessarily mean they're ignorant of resource efficiency...it just means they're confident they can get something important done away from the main front.