Unfortunately multiple gorge's can't save a hive from destruction from 2 marines anymore, if your team is dead and waiting to respawn or trying to get back, 2 marines can screw your hive, bad change on heal spray, didn't think gorge's would get nerfed for protecting their hive :/
Progress bar for welding / building is more confusing, I was told it was a placeholder currently? Couldn't we just get the new model / old one back, whether it be by player option or server option? Made more sense to see the Health of the building and the Build % than a progression bar that you'd see when there is nothing else to use / something you'd use for testing, not gameplay :(
<!--quoteo(post=1960268:date=Aug 9 2012, 11:52 PM:name=MisterNubs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Aug 9 2012, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960268"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You gave a gorge enough time to set up clogs and hydras?
You can't kill the gorge with 4 marines?
Hmm...
I laughed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Setting up clogs and hydras take all of 10 seconds. It was too good. Gorges were healing through focused marine fire on hydras and hives. They were also healing buildings far too fast in general.
<!--quoteo(post=1960291:date=Aug 10 2012, 02:50 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Aug 10 2012, 02:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960291"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Setting up clogs and hydras take all of 10 seconds. It was too good. Gorges were healing through focused marine fire on hydras and hives. They were also healing buildings far to fast in general.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yup. You could even outheal large numbers of ARCS ^^
AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
Gotta love the leet pro players, think they are the best in the world. Anyway, i'm seeing a bit of disapointment, no return of energy (misleading changelog), turrets are still useless. once again, bad balance patch, but a good performance patch. sighsickles.
<!--quoteo(post=1960297:date=Aug 10 2012, 12:57 AM:name=AuroN2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AuroN2 @ Aug 10 2012, 12:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960297"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gotta love the leet pro players, think they are the best in the world. Anyway, i'm seeing a bit of disapointment, no return of energy (misleading changelog), turrets are still useless. once again, bad balance patch, but a good performance patch. sighsickles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
dushanBreaker of GamesJoin Date: 2011-10-30Member: 130202Members, NS2 Developer, Squad Five Blue, Pistachionauts
The raw input option allows you to bypass standard Windows mouse processing (acceleration, smoothing) and let the game read the mouse state via a lower level API.
People with super high DPI mice and aversion to any kind of math between their twitchy mouse hand and the game prefer this input mode, most casual users will probably be quite happy with the standard Windows mouse (especially as it works out of the box without having to tweak a bunch of obscure mouse settings).
<!--quoteo(post=1960307:date=Aug 10 2012, 01:35 AM:name=dushan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dushan @ Aug 10 2012, 01:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960307"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The raw input option allows you to bypass standard Windows mouse processing (acceleration, smoothing) and let the game read the mouse state via a lower level API.
People with super high DPI mice and aversion to any kind of math between their twitchy mouse hand and the game prefer this input mode, most casual users will probably be quite happy with the standard Windows mouse (especially as it works out of the box without having to tweak a bunch of obscure mouse settings).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Appreciate the response, makes sense now.
<!--quoteo(post=1960309:date=Aug 10 2012, 01:40 AM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ Aug 10 2012, 01:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960309"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game still does not recognize my mouse buttons 4 and 5, is anyone else having this problem?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My game registers my Mouse 4/5 buttons. I'm using a steel series.
The gorge was completely out of control in the last build. Anyone who would now argue otherwise, having seen it in action, I question their ability to pass sound judgement on any aspect of this game at all.
1) The armory should not heal armour, I enjoy the frantic calls for welding players, its a nice touch. Energy to heal though is a great idea.
2) JP start sound need to be changed, I still look for a skulk as soon as some1 takes to the sky (it sounds too much like a skulk bite).
3) Progressbar is, as some says, not consistent with the feel of the game. Building progress should only be displayed on the builder device and welder for immersion, be it with bars or percentage OR make it very clear that its info in the marine HUD (with additional markings and info about the structure, think "terminator" HUD). For aliens thats more of problem to get right. Sound only wont do, animations can be hard to pick up on (ie. wounded structures flailing about or sagging). If the gorge could have a red mist or red outline around wounded structures that lets you have an idea about health levels perhaps, and the same for other aliens BUT only in alien-vision mode (=flashlight). That would reduce clutter but still leave players with an option to see which areas to defend.
4) No exo yet I guess. :(...
5) The weapon and armour upgrades for rines should get a new "feel". For aliens there is a distinct upgrade that does something obvious and the feedback is direct. For instance, carapace and regeneration. Good game design - meaningfull choices and feedback = fun. For rines however you have level 1-3. Understandable but boring. I propose the following: diversify those upgrades and make it possible to choose. The effect of those upgrades dont change really but they are made to do it in other ways. And the commander should be able to choose one of two upgrades and the third unlocks when the two first are researched. The cost for each would have to be equalled out though with the third being much higher. <b>Example for weapons: </b>Nanodic dispersion - (unlocked after the other two) each attack is infused with nanoprobes increases damage per attack for all weapons. Experimental high load weaponry - increases ammo loads for all by perhaps 10% but also the rate of fire for MG (shows 55 in ammo counter, theres some direct feedback 4 ya :) ), the flowrate and rate of damage per second for the flamer and amount of pellets in a cartridge in the shotgun, the blastradius of the GL. Smart ammo - In effect making it easier to hit by making targets take damage from near hits. A bit difficult to implement as an actual feature perhaps but a hit box size increase might do the trick? <b>Example for armour: </b>ARNR (R&R) - adaptive response nano repair. Reduces damage done to armour, perhaps a small regen bonus. Primary combatant care system - reduces health reduction when wounded, perhaps a small regeneration bonus. Wimbledon high performance body armour (last level, unlocked by other two) - general boost to armour. Basically when all three are researched the rines would have the approximate effect of the regular upgrades but with the possibility to make choices and get immediate feedback from that choice (=fun). 1,2,3 is not that fun, my heart sinks every time I build that damn research module, it means boring upgrades...
6) Perhaps reduce damage on self from GL grenade just a wee bit, grenades have some weird ###### collision detection and bouncing at the moment.
7) Big issue: turrets are crap. Give them 360 degrees and reduce tracking time needed by at least 50%. They wont even start to spin after the aliens have already gone. Some1 in game said that it's a game between players and not buildings. I disagree, Counter-Strike is a game between players. The integration of buildings and fortification was fun as hell in NS1, I'd very much would like to see that in NS2. Someone is bound to make a NS2 remake of the NS1 Combat-mode for those who disagree. I want my game to take some time, I like building and slowly push enemies back.
8) Set number of hydras to 3 or 4 PER PLAYER and connected to that player instead of 3 per gorge. Hydras should stick around when a player is not gorge anymore but die when they leave the game. It's still a great cost to evolve to gorge, build and then evolve again to warrant keeping the hydras. That way you can build a defense and mess it up for the rines. The goo clogs die of easily enough, those are fine, although web was much more fun, perhaps add those as well? As a 3 hive ability? Good against exos. However, a hydra whos "parent" is not gorge at the moment gets a heal deficiancy and only reacts to say 50% of incoming healspray.
<!--quoteo(post=1960304:date=Aug 9 2012, 10:31 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Aug 9 2012, 10:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960304"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What didn't you like about the balance changes?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just ignore Auron tbh.
Anyways, I like a lot of the changes except I think the new parasite is really dumb the way it is now. Not sure what you have up your sleeve UWE but I thought it was perfect before.
<!--quoteo(post=1960304:date=Aug 10 2012, 03:31 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Aug 10 2012, 03:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960304"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What didn't you like about the balance changes?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited August 2012
We're lowering the skill ceiling again? This indicator showing what is under attack and its health in real time only hurts the players with awareness, gives the commander even less to do and discourages sneaky play.
If commanding in this game is suppose to be about leading people, not ai. Then let the commander lead them, not cluttered indicators and banners. Would like to see an ability for the alien commander that sets egg spawning preference instead of having it completely out of player control (use the old nutrient mist animation).
Other than that, good patch. Keep the performance fixes coming!
This build is amazing but one thing need more explaination. Is it normal to see command Center or Hive in red when it's building ? I hope it's a bug ,if it's not it's bull... Aliens depend more on hive number than marines and make an opening to a 2nd hive is a strategy choice , why say to marines hey guys i build a new hive come on to kill it now!!! it's stupid...
Please tel me it's a bug and not a feature, i dont find it on the changelog. The game doesn't need more gameplay help just people to learn to play. Have a good day :)
The hive/CC icons are horrid, distracting, and of no value in actually navigating the map, and unnecessary to anyone who has discovered there is an easily accessible button to pull up a map. They aren't going to help anyone, and they are an eyesore. At best they can actually have a negative impact on new players by encouraging them to run in wherever they want instead of listening to the commander.
I actually do like the hive/CC health being displayed at the bottom, because previously there was no way to know what the hive health was when you were in the room but firing at it from a distance.
Was the 3 upgrades only really necessary? By the time the Aliens have 4 hives they should either have already won or in the process of doing so. I just got out of a ridiculously long game due to a Marines turtle. Regen with Cara, or Adren with Celerity would have helped a LOT. Fades wouldn't have to go back to the hive every time they need to heal and Gorges could run in and spam bile bomb and finish the game.
I'm not looking forward to long Marine turtles. It's just not fun.
It was amusing in 215 when the alien team <b>over</b>exploited the early game power of the gorge. Once a gorge wall is built, one gorge can hold of many marines. The limiting factor for marines is usually ammo (the dps and total damage is pretty ok I think). The fact that the gorge can healspray and replace hydras & clogs for free exacerbate the ammo problems. And of course if (somehow) the gorgewall fails the gorge can often retreat to the next choke point and start putting up a new wall. I suspect the gorge will continue to be highly effective at walling off sections of the map until hydras cost pRes, but I welcome the other gorge changes and I'm glad to see pRes for hydras is coming.
However, I currently like a lot of the above mechanic because there is a <i>response</i> to be found in marine tech: GLs. The amusing thing I referred to earlier was about how the alien team would often exploit early game gorge mechanics to the <u>extreme</u>, then complain about how effective GLs were. GLs trump gorge. Compounded by: more gorges means less things threatening GLs.
I continued typing stuff here but I've split that off in to <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119978" target="_blank">another thread</a> because I think I was getting off-topic...
Gorges are so effective because most marines sit and shoot the hydras instead of just running past them and killing the gorge.
I will agree that the gorges ability to wall off sections of the map needed to be addressed but this nerf to the gorge makes it suck at everything else too. I think another solution that should have been tried is clogs needing time to grow, this would prevent a gorge from quickly building a wall anywhere, added hydras costing pres and the gorge wouldn't be able to hold off a marine push solo like it used to but wouldn't nerf the other aspects of the class.
Its good that the gorge healing is nerfed again. I would still like to see clogs and general structure blocking out of the game though. We learned that wall of lame is bad a decade ago, yet still its added into the game again.
oldassgamersJoin Date: 2011-02-02Member: 80033Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited August 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1960199:date=Aug 10 2012, 03:43 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Aug 10 2012, 03:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960199"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You've written about this numerous times but you never actually bothered to verify that it's true. CCs/Hives don't show up until someone finds them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh come on ! Its the same point which I wrote! It takes about 10 second to find it and then it shows throughout the entire game. How much more specific do I have to be.
•Disabled % text on builder / welder (is shown as progress bar / crosshair text).
Hate this soo much. It was much better before as far as information to the player and looked alot better displayed as a % instead of this ghastly bar.
Other things to note from my playtime with 216 is that i'm having alot of artifacting problems now. I think that is the correct term atleast, a quick alt-tab out and back in seem to fix it but it's the first time i've experienced it in NS2. The screen going red while injured still kills fps down to 5 or less which makes things unplayable. Red hives/cc visable through the map which I assume is a bug? The new blur to the background of the map is horrible but more importantly it kills my frame rate. Just can't use the map at all now.
DghelneshiAims to surpass Fana in post edits.Join Date: 2011-11-01Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Adjust Monkeys to loss of game-name in OnConnectionPacket protocol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Finally an implementation of the <a href="http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2795.txt" target="_blank">IMPS</a>! I've always wondered why noone ever used this awesome protocol.
Dunno, i feel like i get some extra graphic glitches this patch...
Having flickering textures in some maps/places was and still is very common, but this patch i get flickering shadows every now and then, also something strange happened to my flashlight in one game. (cant remember if i alt tabbed at any point, guess i wont be able to reproduce it)
The red hive & com station really, really, sucks. It deems stealth for hives completely useless, we don't need them when we have the map, there is no problem at all about opening the map to see where you are going, who needs help etc
Comments
Progress bar for welding / building is more confusing, I was told it was a placeholder currently? Couldn't we just get the new model / old one back, whether it be by player option or server option? Made more sense to see the Health of the building and the Build % than a progression bar that you'd see when there is nothing else to use / something you'd use for testing, not gameplay :(
Am i seeing a sort 'o renewal of structure energy? Huzzah!
You can't kill the gorge with 4 marines?
Hmm...
I laughed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Setting up clogs and hydras take all of 10 seconds. It was too good. Gorges were healing through focused marine fire on hydras and hives. They were also healing buildings far too fast in general.
Yup. You could even outheal large numbers of ARCS ^^
Anyway, i'm seeing a bit of disapointment, no return of energy (misleading changelog), turrets are still useless. once again, bad balance patch, but a good performance patch. sighsickles.
Anyway, i'm seeing a bit of disapointment, no return of energy (misleading changelog), turrets are still useless. once again, bad balance patch, but a good performance patch. sighsickles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What didn't you like about the balance changes?
People with super high DPI mice and aversion to any kind of math between their twitchy mouse hand and the game prefer this input mode, most casual users will probably be quite happy with the standard Windows mouse (especially as it works out of the box without having to tweak a bunch of obscure mouse settings).
People with super high DPI mice and aversion to any kind of math between their twitchy mouse hand and the game prefer this input mode, most casual users will probably be quite happy with the standard Windows mouse (especially as it works out of the box without having to tweak a bunch of obscure mouse settings).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Appreciate the response, makes sense now.
<!--quoteo(post=1960309:date=Aug 10 2012, 01:40 AM:name=Sops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sops @ Aug 10 2012, 01:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960309"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game still does not recognize my mouse buttons 4 and 5, is anyone else having this problem?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My game registers my Mouse 4/5 buttons. I'm using a steel series.
Best change ;P, even though I used the mod which enabled that.
A few thoughts though...
1) The armory should not heal armour, I enjoy the frantic calls for welding players, its a nice touch. Energy to heal though is a great idea.
2) JP start sound need to be changed, I still look for a skulk as soon as some1 takes to the sky (it sounds too much like a skulk bite).
3) Progressbar is, as some says, not consistent with the feel of the game. Building progress should only be displayed on the builder device and welder for immersion, be it with bars or percentage OR make it very clear that its info in the marine HUD (with additional markings and info about the structure, think "terminator" HUD). For aliens thats more of problem to get right.
Sound only wont do, animations can be hard to pick up on (ie. wounded structures flailing about or sagging).
If the gorge could have a red mist or red outline around wounded structures that lets you have an idea about health levels
perhaps, and the same for other aliens BUT only in alien-vision mode (=flashlight). That would reduce clutter but still
leave players with an option to see which areas to defend.
4) No exo yet I guess. :(...
5) The weapon and armour upgrades for rines should get a new "feel".
For aliens there is a distinct upgrade that does something obvious and the feedback is direct.
For instance, carapace and regeneration. Good game design - meaningfull choices and feedback = fun.
For rines however you have level 1-3. Understandable but boring.
I propose the following: diversify those upgrades and make it possible to choose. The effect of those upgrades dont change really but they are made to do it in other ways. And the commander should be able to choose one of two upgrades and the third unlocks when the two first are researched. The cost for each would have to be equalled out though with the third being much higher.
<b>Example for weapons: </b>Nanodic dispersion - (unlocked after the other two) each attack is infused with nanoprobes increases damage per attack for all weapons.
Experimental high load weaponry - increases ammo loads for all by perhaps 10% but also the rate of fire for MG (shows 55 in ammo counter, theres some direct feedback 4 ya :) ), the flowrate and rate of damage per second for the flamer and amount of pellets in a cartridge in the shotgun, the blastradius of the GL.
Smart ammo - In effect making it easier to hit by making targets take damage from near hits. A bit difficult to implement as an actual feature perhaps but a hit box size increase might do the trick?
<b>Example for armour: </b>ARNR (R&R) - adaptive response nano repair. Reduces damage done to armour, perhaps a small regen bonus.
Primary combatant care system - reduces health reduction when wounded, perhaps a small regeneration bonus.
Wimbledon high performance body armour (last level, unlocked by other two) - general boost to armour.
Basically when all three are researched the rines would have the approximate effect of the regular upgrades but with the possibility to make choices and get immediate feedback from that choice (=fun).
1,2,3 is not that fun, my heart sinks every time I build that damn research module, it means boring upgrades...
6) Perhaps reduce damage on self from GL grenade just a wee bit, grenades have some weird ###### collision detection and bouncing at the moment.
7) Big issue: turrets are crap. Give them 360 degrees and reduce tracking time needed by at least 50%. They wont even start to spin after the aliens have already gone. Some1 in game said that it's a game between players and not buildings. I disagree, Counter-Strike is a game between players. The integration of buildings and fortification was fun as hell in NS1, I'd very much would like to see that in NS2. Someone is bound to make a NS2 remake of the NS1 Combat-mode for those who disagree. I want my game to take some time, I like building and slowly push enemies back.
8) Set number of hydras to 3 or 4 PER PLAYER and connected to that player instead of 3 per gorge. Hydras should stick around when a player is not gorge anymore but die when they leave the game. It's still a great cost to evolve to gorge, build and then evolve again to warrant keeping the hydras. That way you can build a defense and mess it up for the rines. The goo clogs die of easily enough, those are fine, although web was much more fun, perhaps add those as well? As a 3 hive ability? Good against exos. However, a hydra whos "parent" is not gorge at the moment gets a heal deficiancy and only reacts to say 50% of incoming healspray.
That's it for now :) C U out there!
Just ignore Auron tbh.
Anyways, I like a lot of the changes except I think the new parasite is really dumb the way it is now. Not sure what you have up your sleeve UWE but I thought it was perfect before.
Oh and feign death on Fades /sigh.
That he can't spam turrets everywhere to win.
This indicator showing what is under attack and its health in real time only hurts the players with awareness, gives the commander even less to do and discourages sneaky play.
If commanding in this game is suppose to be about leading people, not ai. Then let the commander lead them, not cluttered indicators and banners.
Would like to see an ability for the alien commander that sets egg spawning preference instead of having it completely out of player control (use the old nutrient mist animation).
Other than that, good patch. Keep the performance fixes coming!
This build is amazing but one thing need more explaination. Is it normal to see command Center or Hive in red when it's building ? I hope it's a bug ,if it's not it's bull...
Aliens depend more on hive number than marines and make an opening to a 2nd hive is a strategy choice , why say to marines hey guys i build a new hive come on to kill it now!!! it's stupid...
Please tel me it's a bug and not a feature, i dont find it on the changelog. The game doesn't need more gameplay help just people to learn to play.
Have a good day :)
They aren't going to help anyone, and they are an eyesore. At best they can actually have a negative impact on new players by encouraging them to run in wherever they want instead of listening to the commander.
I actually do like the hive/CC health being displayed at the bottom, because previously there was no way to know what the hive health was when you were in the room but firing at it from a distance.
I'm not looking forward to long Marine turtles. It's just not fun.
However, I currently like a lot of the above mechanic because there is a <i>response</i> to be found in marine tech: GLs. The amusing thing I referred to earlier was about how the alien team would often exploit early game gorge mechanics to the <u>extreme</u>, then complain about how effective GLs were. GLs trump gorge. Compounded by: more gorges means less things threatening GLs.
I continued typing stuff here but I've split that off in to <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119978" target="_blank">another thread</a> because I think I was getting off-topic...
I will agree that the gorges ability to wall off sections of the map needed to be addressed but this nerf to the gorge makes it suck at everything else too. I think another solution that should have been tried is clogs needing time to grow, this would prevent a gorge from quickly building a wall anywhere, added hydras costing pres and the gorge wouldn't be able to hold off a marine push solo like it used to but wouldn't nerf the other aspects of the class.
I agree about the CC being red...
There is something about the aliens now that just does not feel 'alien'.. too much UI.
It's cheapening it.
Oh come on ! Its the same point which I wrote! It takes about 10 second to find it and then it shows throughout the entire game. How much more specific do I have to be.
Hate this soo much. It was much better before as far as information to the player and looked alot better displayed as a % instead of this ghastly bar.
Other things to note from my playtime with 216 is that i'm having alot of artifacting problems now. I think that is the correct term atleast, a quick alt-tab out and back in seem to fix it but it's the first time i've experienced it in NS2. The screen going red while injured still kills fps down to 5 or less which makes things unplayable. Red hives/cc visable through the map which I assume is a bug? The new blur to the background of the map is horrible but more importantly it kills my frame rate. Just can't use the map at all now.
Finally an implementation of the <a href="http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2795.txt" target="_blank">IMPS</a>! I've always wondered why noone ever used this awesome protocol.
Having flickering textures in some maps/places was and still is very common, but this patch i get flickering shadows every now and then, also something strange happened to my flashlight in one game. (cant remember if i alt tabbed at any point, guess i wont be able to reproduce it)
Maybe its just the nvidia betadriver (304.79)
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