Ns2 Woppido !
Kimpan
Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19307Members
Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19307Members
So i tried the game again now after buying it like 1 year ago. And what can you say.
im sorry but what a disappointment.
The movement mechanics are horrible. When you play as a skulk you feel like running with broken legs. No flow whatsoever. Bunny hopping was essential.. Since it really added depth to the game. You could have a crap skulk coming for you slow and shoot him off like nothing. and then you could get a pro skulk on your ass, Making you shake in your boots trying to keep up with hes movement. Pure gameplay win
And i suppose that is the reason they give fayde cloak when blinking, Since the blinking is so off and clumpsy. you get stuck everywhere.
Its really sad.. It was always nice to see them blink in and out of fights and so on. Also its good in fights to use faydes to blink around the room. And the marines would shoot after him, while skulks move in and kill them, tactic. And playing as a marine and having faydes poof poof poof around with cloak just feels so cheap.
And i cant even doubble leap as skulk -_-
Alien Flaslight is also very annoying.
Overall the game needs to be alot faster.
And new alien commander just make the game so mutch more casual, And removes so mutch depth from the alien team. Takes away alot fun gameplay mechanics for no reason. But hey why not... Casual gaming, slice that ######.
Marine commander, Stripped away from gun management is also very bad. It REMOVES CORE strategy gameplays. Rescource management and gun management, Could win and lose games. for marines and were crucial. Once again slice that ######.
Basicly you guys are going to ruin this game... you might get a few players from Youtube N2HD and totalbiscuiite or what his name is. But they wont stay for long. And your ns1 fanbase will play a short while, becuse they want it to be good. But it will not be what they want. And the game will be dead very fast. Look at Red orchestra 2.
I even dare to say you guys are in total denial. Stop with the new youtube trend videos... And stop trying to please people that will move from this game after 1 month. And concentrate on pleasing the people that love this game. /Swedish NubTardo ^^
im sorry, But it feels like this game have been stripped of everything that made it the best.
im sorry but what a disappointment.
The movement mechanics are horrible. When you play as a skulk you feel like running with broken legs. No flow whatsoever. Bunny hopping was essential.. Since it really added depth to the game. You could have a crap skulk coming for you slow and shoot him off like nothing. and then you could get a pro skulk on your ass, Making you shake in your boots trying to keep up with hes movement. Pure gameplay win
And i suppose that is the reason they give fayde cloak when blinking, Since the blinking is so off and clumpsy. you get stuck everywhere.
Its really sad.. It was always nice to see them blink in and out of fights and so on. Also its good in fights to use faydes to blink around the room. And the marines would shoot after him, while skulks move in and kill them, tactic. And playing as a marine and having faydes poof poof poof around with cloak just feels so cheap.
And i cant even doubble leap as skulk -_-
Alien Flaslight is also very annoying.
Overall the game needs to be alot faster.
And new alien commander just make the game so mutch more casual, And removes so mutch depth from the alien team. Takes away alot fun gameplay mechanics for no reason. But hey why not... Casual gaming, slice that ######.
Marine commander, Stripped away from gun management is also very bad. It REMOVES CORE strategy gameplays. Rescource management and gun management, Could win and lose games. for marines and were crucial. Once again slice that ######.
Basicly you guys are going to ruin this game... you might get a few players from Youtube N2HD and totalbiscuiite or what his name is. But they wont stay for long. And your ns1 fanbase will play a short while, becuse they want it to be good. But it will not be what they want. And the game will be dead very fast. Look at Red orchestra 2.
I even dare to say you guys are in total denial. Stop with the new youtube trend videos... And stop trying to please people that will move from this game after 1 month. And concentrate on pleasing the people that love this game. /Swedish NubTardo ^^
im sorry, But it feels like this game have been stripped of everything that made it the best.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Personally, I am awaiting for the solid mechanics and tactics that would define NS2. I am already miffed at the "accessibility"/Combat mantra that has seeped in to the game, but I spent 7 years( 3 of which was competitive ) playing this game so I figure I ought to give it a chance.
First of all with the skulk movement, a lot has changed since the NS days. The walls are a lot more detailed and can have a lot more uneven geometry than it used to be in NS1. Part of the reason I think bunnyhopping was included in the first place for NS1 was just because there weren't enough nooks and crannies for the skulks to hide in and ambush from. Geometry in the first game was very basic and flat, so naturally it will feel a lot more wonky when it gets detail and becomes more bumpy.
Fade movement will also improve over time. Remember when it was originally teleport in the rough stages of the beta? That was very disorienting for the fade to suddenly be in one place and suddenly another, and they tuned it to be a lot more intuitive and easier to understand.
The rest is a lot of personal preference in my eyes. Personally, I love how marines don't need to rely entirely on the commander to drop them weapons anymore. Now it is up to the marines which gun they can choose. Generally a good commander in NS would have just dropped all weapons and tech in their own little respective piles and allowed the marines to choose how they went about doing things. This just makes it a bit more automated and allows the commander to concentrate on other issues.
edit: oh crap you edited your lame post to ";)" an hour afterward, I better do the same or I'll look like a fool!
Impressive.
<!--quoteo(post=1960854:date=Aug 10 2012, 09:05 PM:name=Blasphemy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blasphemy @ Aug 10 2012, 09:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960854"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Part of the reason I think bunnyhopping was included in the first place for NS1 was just because there weren't enough nooks and crannies for the skulks to hide in and ambush from<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hiding and ambushing are extremely low-skill activities that bad players hide behind when they play FPS games
games that focus on them are doing so because they lack real skill-indexed mechanics like bunnyhopping
your move.
he told you how
why are you participating in the beta if you're afraid to discuss the issues he raised, but content to dismiss him because the game is fun for you?
why are you participating in the beta if you're afraid to discuss the issues he raised, but content to dismiss him because the game is fun for you?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why are you even on these forums internetexplorer?
While I do agree that bunnyhopping, or anything requiring careful input with timing and precision would involve a lot more practice than an ambush, I don't believe that is was an intended mechanic in NS1. I mean, most of us can agree that the skulk is an ambusher class. That is why he has spikes for feet. To climb walls. If he were intended to be a bunnyhopping skirmisher, shouldn't he have springs for feet instead?
because it's fun to call out people who don't know what a beta is and just want to play a game for half the cost of retail
also, because every confused newbie who loves this game comes back crying about it 2 weeks later when they stop dreaming
<!--quoteo(post=1960864:date=Aug 10 2012, 09:34 PM:name=Blasphemy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blasphemy @ Aug 10 2012, 09:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960864"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now hold on. Why does a skulk waiting to ambush have to be a bad player? Is it not an effective strategy to wait for your enemy to move, and spring your trap on him? Just because I can jump around on really thin vertical scaffolding backwards as a scout, killing pursuers, doesn't mean I think a spy hiding around a corner waiting for a quick backstab is a bad player. What works, works.
While I do agree that bunnyhopping, or anything requiring careful input with timing and precision would involve a lot more practice than an ambush, I don't believe that is was an intended mechanic in NS1. I mean, most of us can agree that the skulk is an ambusher class. That is why he has spikes for feet. To climb walls. If he were intended to be a bunnyhopping skirmisher, shouldn't he have springs for feet instead?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the idea is that when you ambush, the entire situation hinges on the other person and how they play
you're doing something where you hope to get a kill or deal damage essentially for free (without having to do what the bunnyhopping guy does), but the opponent can see it coming a mile away because all the hiding spots are brutally obvious to anyone who has played a given map before, can count enemy players as they travel the map and so on
which is why spies in the TF games don't succeed by camping except against the most distracted, careless players
it's the same idea as 'cheese' in an RTS game - you hope they don't scout your 6 pool before it's too late, but if they do you're as dead as the skulk who backed himself into a corner
the fact that skulks can scale walls doesn't mean bunnyhopping is out of the question (in fact, it's not in this game for even more pathetic reasons) ... the aliens are supposed to be about movement in general, and there's no one correct way to implement that. It's painfully obvious to people who have played NS, quake3 and so on that walljumping is simply not as fun and not as versatile. Not only will the players not last X months after release, but the mechanics won't hold up for the people who stick around (and end up modding the game to be fun)
coming from ns1, totally understand. but ns2 is going for broad commercial appeal, most of the changes are an attempt to do that. and uwe believes the game will be more successful with them. all your points have been debated endlessly here. edit: will add that the debate has been useful in get some changes in NS2 which make it a better game.
for the ns1 vets, there will likely be a standard community mod that will address those concerns.
Works okay in ns2 too, with proper use of the walljumping mechanic... movement is <u>not</u> perfect, but this is just exaggerated. (like somebody that plays ns2 for 5min gets owned and the makes a post in the forums)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And i suppose that is the reason they give fayde cloak when blinking, Since the blinking is so off and clumpsy. you get stuck everywhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So not having bunnyhop is the reason why fade got cloak while blinking? Im confused.
I<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ts really sad.. It was always nice to see them blink in and out of fights and so on. Also its good in fights to use faydes to blink around the room. And the marines would shoot after him, while skulks move in and kill them, tactic. And playing as a marine and having faydes poof poof poof around with cloak just feels so cheap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fade takes full damage while blinking, also they are not really invisible - since you see this glowing stuff. 2-3 proper shotgun hits poof 50res gone. (not saying that blink and shadowstep couldnt be improved)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And new alien commander just make the game so mutch more casual, And removes so mutch depth from the alien team. Takes away alot fun gameplay mechanics for no reason. But hey why not... Casual gaming, slice that ######.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So what was that much better with having gorges instead? (im not approving or denying anything really - i would just like to see proper arguments instead of whine that everything was better back in the days)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marine commander, Stripped away from gun management is also very bad. It REMOVES CORE strategy gameplays. Rescource management and gun management, Could win and lose games. for marines and were crucial. Once again slice that ######.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It doesnt remove the management, its just different, since its the player that has to choose what he does... if they make wrong choices it can also mean win or loss.
Are you really asking? I thought it was well documented that the splitting of the NS1 gorge-role into a NS2 gorge- & kham-class made both of these classes feel shallow and unsatisfying.
(at least thats the only thing i remember as really fun about the gorge)
(at least thats the only thing i remember as really fun about the gorge)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agh no, gorging was so much better than that. Finding clever places to put MCs & SCs, making judgement-calls on where and when to drop RTs, securing critical junctions by placing an MC behind a wall, an OC in the middle and with the help of 1 or 2 skulks lock down that section of the map for as long as you can, crazy hive-drops (with or without the help of lerk-lift), et cetera. Good perma-gorges really made a difference, and it was bloody fun to be one.
When speaking to game designers you have to explain why you feel this way, and "Because NS1 did it better" is not an explanation, it's a comparison to a different game. Explain why NS1 did it better in a way that a person who has never played either game can appreciate the differences based on the facts given.
Avoid too many buzzwords too, many players are aware of these and they tend to dampen the credibility of an argument when they're abused. Words like "skill" or "tactical" or "casual." These words alone aren't bad, and can have use, but when they're thrown in purely to try and persuade people, e.g. "If it were like this it would require more skill and tactics, and would be less casual, because casual is bad." It's just pure rhetoric. You aren't explaining why it requires more skills or tactics, even if you feel it's so obvious everybody should be able to see it, and you don't explain why its better to have these skills/tactics than any current skill/tactics that would be nullified by the new design. Also, the use of "casual" as a negative buzzword for essentially "wannabe-gamers that are intruding on our turf and messing with our hardcore game design," isn't really a good excuse to change something on its own.
Why is something more accessible less good in this case. And accessibility is not always indirectly proportionate to skill. If a game menu for a fantasy class used words in elvish and a layout that fits the lore of the race, and the designers changed it to a more standard menu that was clearer to understand so that more people can intuitively pick it up on their first play, that doesn't mean it's worse just because older players had to learn how to use the menu as a lore piece and blame the "casual" market for ruining something so exclusive. It could possibly be worse for other reasons, but you'd have to explain why. Luckily, in such a scenario you could probably convince the devs to have a menu toggle for preference.
Bunnyhopping, less so, because it changes the dynamic of play for a class, so you'll have to convince the devs why relatively easy to pick up Bunnyhopping is the better choice to standardised movement with wall-jumping, erratic (wall) movement, and later use of leaping, and you'll have to do so without relying on buzzwords that sometimes work when discussing stuff with other gamers who just want to express opinions, but who don't make core game design choices.
I don't mean to be rude, it's just people in here were talking about how Betas are for game design, not early play of a video game. Yes, but such discussion is only useful if it's actually backed up with persuasive facts and analysis, not democratic vote to have something changed back to a "better" system, with nothing really trying to explain why other than subjective opinion and a nostalgic preference for another game.
Are you sure you're not imagining all that stuff?
<!--quoteo(post=1960881:date=Aug 10 2012, 10:26 PM:name=Shadrouge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shadrouge @ Aug 10 2012, 10:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's the problem with your arguments. Asserting that something is "well documented" because a few people, including yourself, feel it's bad and might have brought it up in past complaints, does not make something a fact. Regardless of whether this is an issue or not, you won't be convincing anybody that has the power to change things that "This is bad because it's more shallow and less satisfying for me! Fix it!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's more shallow and less satisfying for a lot of people, in posts that are searchable on these forums. Perhaps if you hadn't joined 5 days ago you could relate. Luckily, you don't need to because you're special.
<!--quoteo(post=1960881:date=Aug 10 2012, 10:26 PM:name=Shadrouge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shadrouge @ Aug 10 2012, 10:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When speaking to game designers you have to explain why you feel this way, and "Because NS1 did it better" is not an explanation, it's a comparison to a different game. Explain why NS1 did it better in a way that a person who has never played either game can appreciate the differences based on the facts given.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The OP and I both explained in terms of skill-indexing and replayability how "ns1 did it better." I've been doing that for like a year on these forums, and very few people 'get it' because the voices of dimwit fanboys drown us out 10:1
How about you explain how designing the aliens in ns2 to have slow, predictable, linear movement is a good idea compared to how ns1 did it? Or how about splitting the gorge (which was agreed upon as 'not a problem') into several things that are both described as boring in virtually every post about them on these forums (again, searchable)?
<!--quoteo(post=1960881:date=Aug 10 2012, 10:26 PM:name=Shadrouge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shadrouge @ Aug 10 2012, 10:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Avoid too many buzzwords too, many players are aware of these and they tend to dampen the credibility of an argument when they're abused. Words like "skill" or "tactical" or "casual." These words alone aren't bad, and can have use, but when they're thrown in purely to try and persuade people, e.g. "If it were like this it would require more skill and tactics, and would be less casual, because casual is bad." It's just pure rhetoric. You aren't explaining why it requires more skills or tactics, even if you feel it's so obvious everybody should be able to see it, and you don't explain why its better to have these skills/tactics than any current skill/tactics that would be nullified by the new design. Also, the use of "casual" as a negative buzzword for essentially "wannabe-gamers that are intruding on our turf and messing with our hardcore game design," isn't really a good excuse to change something on its own.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you want, I will sit down and define all the terms I use (like 'skill indexing', 'skill ceiling', 'replayability') and so on. We can do that, or you can accept the fact that some people are domain experts and use the language corresponding to their domain. I can't explain important design concepts without the reader having some basic understanding and ability to relate. Again, being able to relate is important. This is why I mentioned that it's fun to call out people who don't belong in a beta and just want to gush over a $35 game.
<!--quoteo(post=1960881:date=Aug 10 2012, 10:26 PM:name=Shadrouge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shadrouge @ Aug 10 2012, 10:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why is something more accessible less good in this case. And accessibility is not always indirectly proportionate to skill. If a game menu for a fantasy class used words in elvish and a layout that fits the lore of the race, and the designers changed it to a more standard menu that was clearer to understand so that more people can intuitively pick it up on their first play, that doesn't mean it's worse just because older players had to learn how to use the menu as a lore piece and blame the "casual" market for ruining something so exclusive. It could possibly be worse for other reasons, but you'd have to explain why. Luckily, in such a scenario you could probably convince the devs to have a menu toggle for preference. Bunnyhopping, less so, because it changes the dynamic of play for a class, so you'll have to convince the devs why relatively easy to pick up Bunnyhopping is the better choice to standardised movement with wall-jumping, erratic (wall) movement, and later use of leaping, and you'll have to do so without relying on buzzwords that sometimes work when discussing stuff with other gamers who just want to express opinions, not makes core game design choices.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The OP isn't about accessibility. It's about mechanics that made all the great FPS games what they were, and how they're missing in NS2 because of trendwhoring and attempts at mass appeal. Posts like yours make it about accessibility, because you can't answer his concerns directly.
If people "just want to express their opinions", a discussion forum is not usually the best place to do it. No one here is 'making core game design choices' either - it's much too late for that. It would be cool if someone had actually made those choices from the perspective of a <i>designer</i>, rather than a <i>producer of content</i>, in creating ns2.
Welp.
Seriously? People have been going on about the bad gorge-comm dynamics since forever, especially how terrible the gorge is at the moment. But you're just talking to a wall, it makes no difference, you simply aren't being listened to at all. Don't ask people to re-iterate what has been said for so long and so often, go do a forum-search, there's plenty of material available (which has remained unused as is evident by the current terrible gorge-gameplay).
verb (used without object)
1. to lie or keep in hiding, as for some evil reason: The thief skulked in the shadows.
2. to move in a stealthy manner; slink: The panther skulked through the bush.
World English Dictionary
skulk (skÊŒlk)
— vb
1. to move stealthily so as to avoid notice
2. to lie in hiding; lurk
Im not to sure but i dont see bunnyhopping around at high speeds anywhere close to the description of a skulk.
Yes, seriously.
Backing up your argument with "other people have already given evidence to this many times over, go out and find it or I won't argue with you" is a cop-out. Present your facts, analysis, and opinions in one location if you truly wish to try and change anything. Perhaps this is why all this "material available" has remained unused, because it's just a scattered opinion in a sub-set of the community?
If you truly want to try and see change, bring the entire discussion up. Start a thread with the express intent of re-initializing bunnyhopping (to keep things simple - later threads can address other concerns) and collect all the brought up facts and opinions into one place and make a headstrong case for why you want this changed.
Devs don't have time to go search through forum archives and scrounge up your argument for you. As it stands, you're blowing hot air, and complaining won't convince anybody to fix any of your problems for you.
It's a beta, after-all. Things can be tweaked (though less easily than they might have if this was argued strongly during the alpha stage, perhaps). Even post-release entire systems can be over-halled if it's deemed necessary. If this is just a complaint thread, with no actual care to see the problems realised or rectified, then it's nothing more than a place for collective rants, which, unless they have formulated intent behind them, will do little more than help you vent/blow off steam.
verb (used without object)
1. to lie or keep in hiding, as for some evil reason: The thief skulked in the shadows.
2. to move in a stealthy manner; slink: The panther skulked through the bush.
World English Dictionary
skulk (skÊŒlk)
— vb
1. to move stealthily so as to avoid notice
2. to lie in hiding; lurk
Im not to sure but i dont see bunnyhopping around at high speeds anywhere close to the description of a skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wow bro the lerk shouldn't move much either
thank you for this incredible useful post
(why did you bother?)
Are you sure you're not imagining all that stuff?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3SgOleq3Xw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3SgOleq3Xw</a>
Thats why i knew a rickroll post is the proper reply to this thread.
this accurately sums up my thoughts on the topic, thank you<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><i>!!!!!!!!!!</i></b><u></u><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Works okay in ns2 too, with proper use of the walljumping mechanic... movement is <u>not</u> perfect, but this is just exaggerated. (like somebody that plays ns2 for 5min gets owned and the makes a post in the forums)
</b>
Well it just feels off, cant say anything else.
<b>
So what was that much better with having gorges instead? (im not approving or denying anything really - i would just like to see proper arguments instead of whine that everything was better back in the days)
It doesnt remove the management, actually it makes it even harder since its the player that has to choose right ... if they make wrong choices it can also mean win or loss. (wsting too much res on mines and then getting stomped by fades etc)
</b>
Its is about roles and team play. A commander choice if he wants upgrades or guns. You cut the core of the commanding. The feel of managing the team in all aspects. especially as important as guns. When to drop, when to push. When to go all in and so on...
I am 1 of uws biggest fan, dont worry about that. I just dont see how this is going to work out. They can never make this game mw3 shooter game like. And by cutting out ns1 gameplay, they will end up with nothing instead.
hype it on youtube in the beginning. And have 2 active months. And after that the commercial audience is gone. hopefully im wrong. I wont be playing, but i wish them the best.
There have been plenty of threads where the developers basically blew off all of the constructive and decidedly good suggestions in favor of their own twisted ideas of what constitutes good gameplay. Asking me to type it all out again is tantamount to trolling me, perhaps you can find another guy to waste his time just for your personal edification.
[EDIT]
Oh, and I just had to quote this little gem:
<!--quoteo(post=1960886:date=Aug 11 2012, 02:33 AM:name=Shadrouge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shadrouge @ Aug 11 2012, 02:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960886"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Things can be tweaked (though less easily than they might have if this was argued strongly during the alpha stage, perhaps).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have absolutely no idea do you? Go navigate back to the 2010-threads. Go, do it, and read all that was pointed out and suggested way back then. The gorge\commander-combo wasn't liked then, and little has changed up to now. Would it be presumptuous of me to think you weren't around during the alpha-stage? Because it sounds a little like that.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=117309&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...=117309&hl=</a>
your move.
edit: sorry, I didn't collect every single fact and opinion about the topic only to see a bunch of braindead kids not read the post. maybe you can help me make a new one?
I guess it could be simply that you're so used how NS1 Skulks moved, and so the new system feels wrong/off, and that it might get easier with time. Or they could always tweak the system to make it feel more responsive.
They feel sorta slow if you don't have celerity, and especially slow if you have carapace. In game at one point, and I don't know what evolutions the skulks had, but I was keeping up with two skulks as a gorge as they headed down North Tunnels. Gorge has never really seemed the speedy type to me, but I'm pretty sure I wasn't even sliding at the time, so I don't know what was going on there.
I haven't got the hang of the wall jumping yet, so maybe it's more viable than it sounds once it's all working, as it's basically mechanically operated a bit like bunnyhopping except that you need to time it with wall jumps (which, on paper, sounds more skillful. Though I don't think momentum stacks.).
As NS2 plays currently, I'm not sure it really requires bunnyhopping speed though. Just as in, skulks tear up individual marines pretty hard once they get in close and if they're good. And it's easy enough to get in close as it is, let alone barrelling down the corridors with extra speed that makes it near impossible for the marines to hit at long distance before it closes the gaps. Then again, maybe this is just due to current frame-rate issues preventing many marines from making quicker shots against incoming, fast Skulks.
<!--quoteo(post=1960890:date=Aug 11 2012, 12:40 PM:name=Kimpan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kimpan @ Aug 11 2012, 12:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960890"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its is about roles and team play. A commander choice if he wants upgrades or guns. You cut the core of the commanding. The feel of managing the team in all aspects. especially as important as guns. When to drop, when to push. When to go all in and so on...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know if this includes Khaara hives, but the bit you quoted mentioned them so:
I kind of liked the asymmetry of how one team has a commander the other team has a sort of community effort. I'm fine with how it is currently, but I do like how it was earlier too, provided the team can work together.
<!--quoteo(post=1960890:date=Aug 11 2012, 12:40 PM:name=Kimpan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kimpan @ Aug 11 2012, 12:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960890"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am 1 of uws biggest fan, dont worry about that. I just dont see how this is going to work out. They can never make this game mw3 shooter game like. And by cutting out ns1 gameplay, they will end up with nothing instead.
hype it on youtube in the beginning. And have 2 active months. And after that the commercial audience is gone. hopefully im wrong. I wont be playing, but i wish them the best.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, as it stands, I think there's still an ocean of Natural Selection gameplay in the game, and I haven't seen anybody really compare it to MW3-alike games. Especially when CoD players come in and start to get disoriented about lack of iron sights.
With the moddibility of NS2 though, I honestly would be surprised if a NS1 re-creation doesn't manage to be created at some point in the future, so you might still be able to play that if you're interested. =P No promises it'll happen, but it seems plausible.
[EDIT]
Oh, and I just had to quote this little gem:
You have absolutely no idea do you? Go navigate back to the 2010-threads. Go, do it, and read all that was pointed out and suggested way back then. The gorge\commander-combo wasn't liked then, and little has changed up to now. Would it be presumptuous of me to think you weren't around during the alpha-stage? Because it sounds a little like that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you considered keeping your arguments saved in a word document, and then copy pasting the explanation to enlighten people that haven't read the previous ones?
I browsed the forums back during alpha, though didn't bother to participate or stick around long, so no I probably have no idea. But guess what, there's been a huge influx of players recently (percentage increase in the thousands), so if you want to get your point across you're going to have to address all the new players who are learning how to use the current system, because you can't rely on your alpha audience any longer. I know re-arguing your point can be tedious and tiring, but that's how ongoing debates work in all other fields, across debates between science and religion, what exactly feminism and equality stand for, etc...
You have a new audience to address. If you can persuade their fresh, impressionable minds before they get too used to the current system, make use of it.
As with anything: The burden of proof is on you as the claim-maker. Welcome to game development (or any sort of rallying for change, really).
<!--quoteo(post=1960894:date=Aug 11 2012, 12:48 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Aug 11 2012, 12:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960894"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=117309&hl=" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...=117309&hl=</a>
your move.
edit: sorry, I didn't collect every single fact and opinion about the topic only to see a bunch of braindead kids not read the post. maybe you can help me make a new one?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you considered bumping that thread and keeping it updated, instead of starting threads without all that information? Or is that too much effort? It's only 3 pages long, and the last post was in late March.
yeah, I could necro a thread from march for a new guy who thinks he knows everything and won't search the forums
or I could make fun of you
######, where was I?
<!--quoteo(post=1960901:date=Aug 10 2012, 11:11 PM:name=Shadrouge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shadrouge @ Aug 10 2012, 11:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1960901"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As with anything: The burden of proof is on you as the claim-maker. Welcome to game development (or any sort of rallying for change, really).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's too bad my only proof is 17 years of quake-like FPS games succeeding, including the first NS game
If only I had a full mathematical model with a bunch of theorem proofs and case studies. Dang, I guess I'm just not cut out for this game design stuff. Can you teach me?