Hive/Com chair sight Discussion.

antacidantacid Join Date: 2007-08-07 Member: 61821Members, NS2 Playtester
edited August 2012 in NS2 General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">How do you feel about this feature?</div>The concept is simple, when somebody on the team sees a hive or a comm chair, it creates a red Icon that is visible to every player on the team for the rest of the game.

This icon is meant to "guide" new players as to the location of the hive / comm chair, and to give an idea of how many hives there are.

So what are your thoughts on this added feature?

The official UW stance on this feature is

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Glowing red hives and cc icon's are here to stay, sorry. They will probably be decreased a bit in size and maybe made a little less intense, but they are necessary for players to know where to go, and what the objective is. Every FPS game has something like this. Maybe it will be added as an option to turn off later.

--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What are your thoughts?
«1

Comments

  • JektJekt Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Glowing red hives and cc icon's are here to stay, sorry. They will probably be decreased a bit in size and maybe made a little less intense, but they are <b>necessary for players to know where to go</b>, and what the objective is. Every FPS game has something like this. Maybe it will be added as an option to turn off later.

    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You'd think the maps were randomly generated, and that the average playing time is going to be about a minute and a half. It's clutter that disorientates more than it clarifies.

    Every FPS game doesn't have a an RTS component either, although this one seems to be forgetting it. Way points? Voice chat? Hello?
  • elodeaelodea Editlodea Join Date: 2009-06-20 Member: 67877Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1961238:date=Aug 12 2012, 06:05 AM:name=Jekt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jekt @ Aug 12 2012, 06:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1961238"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's clutter that disorientates more than it clarifies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Exactly my thoughts. If i don't use the C map and instead use the icons as 'intended'.

    Oh, there's an objective i need to go to over there in elevator transfer?
    <img src="http://i.imgur.com/DN9Tg.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Wait a second... is it in repair room?
    <img src="http://i.imgur.com/8NUcr.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    The same problem happens even more obviously in summit where you are at one techpoint and can't tell whether the CC/hive icon is in crossroads or the other side of the map.
  • CobraCommanderCobraCommander Join Date: 2012-07-30 Member: 154472Members
    Wtf, seriously?

    So what's the mini-map for if you could have that hive info in the mini-map instead of having more junk on your screen?

    Please give us a toggle option.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1961241:date=Aug 11 2012, 01:13 PM:name=CobraCommander)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CobraCommander @ Aug 11 2012, 01:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1961241"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please give us a toggle option.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This is all that it probably needed at this point.
  • Raza.Raza. Join Date: 2004-01-24 Member: 25663Members, Constellation
    Can't agree with Cory.

    - "they are necessary for players to know where to go"
    The map does a much better job at that. After all it actually shows the path to the hive or cc, the icons don't.

    - ", and what the objective is."
    First of all, going straight to the hive or cc is rarely a good idea. Players should follow the team's strategy. Secondly, it takes not more than 5 games of NS2 to realize that hives and ccs are spawn points and therefore important objectives. So the icons become useless clutter after a very short time.

    - "Every FPS game has something like this."
    Not really.
  • LocklearLocklear [nexzil]kerrigan Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151403Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Give us an option to turn it off, and there will be no problems. Seriously.
  • JuCCiJuCCi Join Date: 2011-08-08 Member: 114961Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited August 2012
    I had a better idea. I dunno how many have played ...... CoD but there was one good thing about it for new people. While you would load it would give you lil hints about the game. Instead of clusterfacking our HUD why not get rid of the concept art and do nice hints.

    eg. This is a hive and a comm chair, you must find and destroy all of these to win teh round / press "C" to use the mini map to find your way around the map. You get teh point. I know your trying to help the noob learn. But its not like we are playing with 7 years olds that need help whipping there as s e s. You learn with time played, if you even want to learn.
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    People are up in arms about a small 100x100 red block on their screen? Seriously?

    Who the hell cares?
  • JuCCiJuCCi Join Date: 2011-08-08 Member: 114961Members, NS2 Map Tester
    <!--quoteo(post=1961284:date=Aug 11 2012, 06:44 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Aug 11 2012, 06:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1961284"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People are up in arms about a small 100x100 red block on their screen? Seriously?

    Who the hell cares?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I do. Why is it needed? All new players before TB found there way around.
  • GrimfangGrimfang Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13086Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    I have played some games, and I have learned to ignore it, so it's not that big a deal. But on the other hand, why put in something that players need to ignore? Even if they are meant to guide a player to an objective, most of us can't run through walls, so we would have to use the map anyway.

    Either an option to disable it, or remove it all together.
  • J2pcJ2pc Join Date: 2002-12-05 Member: 10485Members
    I can see why maybe you'd want to enable it initially for a couple of games, just to help people get around a bit easier.

    But after a couple of games, you get to know the maps, communicate properly (buy a mic!) and all and then it's just... distracting and (imho) takes away from the atmosphere.

    So, make it a toggle in the options menu or something, and we're all happy!
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->most of us can't run through walls<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'm not sure, but this fact might have been overlooked during the design of the red icons.
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    hate it. too much handholding. if you want to help newbies out, make it very obvious how to bring up the minimap, and then show pathing to "objectives" there. and for god's sake make it turn offable
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    I am not a fan. It is just clutter. I don't think it is helpful at all. Could we get some new people to add some input?
  • askerasker Join Date: 2012-01-29 Member: 142449Members, WC 2013 - Silver
    I'm of the opinion that UWE is trying too hard to hold the hand for players who never asked for it, even at the cost of compromising earlier design guidelines. As stated by others, the new icons are counter-productive by guiding new players to the enemy base as if it was the primary objective and clutters an otherwise consistent interface.

    <b>However</b>, this feature brings one good addition to the game. It informs the players that the location of an enemy stronghold has been found. I fully endorse other people's suggestions to make this a toggle but I wish to suggest a third option: Make the red icon show up briefly, 3 seconds maybe, make sure the player is made aware that a hive/CC has been found and then fade it out, only keeping it on the minimap (where it should ALWAYS be visible. I can not for the life of me understand why it isn't already).

    Also, UWE representatives; you shouldn't so lightly brush off suggestions of the people who play this game actively or even competitively. If they claim some recent addition detract from the fun of the game by changing some mechanic, intended or unintended, that really benefited the game's enjoyability, you should take note. I'm not only referring to your "It's here to stay, live with it" attitude towards the complaints on this issue, but also to the uproar from players testifying that the game lost a lot of team-orientation by having armories restore armor. With a reaction like this, it <i>is</i> possible that people aren't complaining just for the sake of complaining.
  • killer monkeykiller monkey Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Put it on the minimap instead its stupid to be on screen ALL THE TIME.
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    edited August 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1961289:date=Aug 11 2012, 11:50 PM:name=JuCCi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JuCCi @ Aug 11 2012, 11:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1961289"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do. Why is it needed? All new players before TB found there way around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Whether you think the hive and comm sight is good or bad is your own personal choice, I won't question that. I will, however, question the reasoning behind your choice. As far as I can see, there is absolutely no reason to be this up in arms about something so insignificant to experienced players.

    Ask yourself why you don't want it in the game, or why you demand the ability to disable it. You may learn something about yourself.

    Edit
    As for the explanation of "clutter", I find that laughable quite frankly. Its a small red icon that is placed behind everything except walls. You might as well just say that walls are clutter then.
  • JuCCiJuCCi Join Date: 2011-08-08 Member: 114961Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited August 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1961382:date=Aug 11 2012, 08:47 PM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Aug 11 2012, 08:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1961382"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whether you think the hive and comm sight is good or bad is your own personal choice, I won't question that. I will, however, question the reasoning behind your choice. As far as I can see, there is absolutely no reason to be this up in arms about something so insignificant to experienced players.

    Ask yourself why you don't want it in the game, or why you demand the ability to disable it. You may learn something about yourself.

    Edit
    As for the explanation of "clutter", I find that laughable quite frankly. Its a small red icon that is placed behind everything except walls. You might as well just say that walls are clutter then.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    . It does not truely show you where the hive/comm chair is. You have a mini map that it could be in. The game comes with 2 way to tell others where a hive is [enter key] = chat . [left alt] is for talking if you have a mic. If you can toggle it, its not a big deal. But if its always gonna be there it is. Like i said above, do people need to be shown how to wipe there asses in the morning, or where there mouth is??

    and as for this "You may learn something about yourself."imba... I learned that i learned this game without it. "Mommy wow im a big kid now *song*"
  • TechuserTechuser Join Date: 2010-07-23 Member: 72719Members
    I don't like it.
    If a new player is so lost he can't use the map then knowing where the hive is, is the least of his problems, he can find his way around using the map and following other players. A red thing in the middle of the screen kinda looks like a waypoint, but he is not supposed to follow that and try to hit the hive alone anytime (which might be the reaction of a new player seeing that).
    I preffer to be able to toggle it between off, map, and overlay, being map the default.
  • ShakerShaker Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9582Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    It would be cool to add a "spot" feature for marines. Similar to the way parasite shows marines/structures on the map, it could do the same thing for marines.
  • MrRadicalEdMrRadicalEd Turrent Master Join Date: 2004-08-13 Member: 30601Members
    Here is another thing UWE will not reconsider.. yeah it is in other games, but that does not mean they were implemented properly. I look at BF3 as a shining example. Too many floating hud elements will confuse players.

    You have to think about indicators within the context of the situation!

    I propose this on screen indicator only come in to view when you are looking in the direction and fade out of view after "x" amount of seconds. Over time you will understand something interesting is at that looking angle and your muscle memory will start to take over in terms of orientation within the game field.
  • LPCLPC Join Date: 2002-04-07 Member: 384Members, Reinforced - Diamond
    edited August 2012
    Guys... READ: quote by Cory:

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe it will be added as an option to turn off later.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    why act so upset as if they never listen etc. bla bla bla, he said they might add an option to turn it off later.

    (if you ask me though, Im sure they will. Every single game that I know off allows you to turn of "new player hints and tips")
  • fmponefmpone Join Date: 2011-07-05 Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
    I'll throw this out there: is there anybody who DOES like this?
  • AngeluszAngelusz Harmonic entropist Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18072Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=1961600:date=Aug 12 2012, 12:34 PM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Aug 12 2012, 12:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1961600"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll throw this out there: is there anybody who DOES like this?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Doubt it.
  • LPCLPC Join Date: 2002-04-07 Member: 384Members, Reinforced - Diamond
    edited August 2012
    the concept in itself is not too bad, I just think the 'icon' is too big.

    p.s. of course I also agree that if it shows up a a 'hivesight' icon, it should also always be visible on the minimap. I think this was just looked over...
  • WormeckWormeck Join Date: 2012-08-12 Member: 155483Members
    From what I've seen, this change has definitely hurt several games I've been in since the update.

    In one game, only myself and one other marine were actually trying to secure anything (additional CCs and RTs). The remaining 5 players were all chain rushing the shiny hive icon on the minimap, which led to the alien Khamm taking over the entire map. The worst part is that with all the suicidal rushing they weren't even bothering to cap and hold the RT between Warehouse and Repair (despite having a constant 2-3 marines there).

    Considering most commanders will call out hive locations over voice/in chat even if the marine that finds the hive doesn't bother doing so, having that icon feels pretty useless. It takes even more teamplay away from the Commander since the game is providing this clear target for people. Why would I go to the other side of the map and built an RT when I could go this way to destroy the enemy hive? It's flawed logic in terms of how NS actually works, but that's how many people will/do see it.
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES&#33; FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS&#33; Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    I have one thing to say about this feature to UWE
    STOP HOLDING HANDS. I'm sick of this by the rails crap. stop holding hands and stop simplifying the game for the sake of new players! if they can't take the complexity of the game, they never will like it to begin with!
  • TquilaTquila Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70738Members, NS2 Playtester
    It's horrible.

    What about instead putting it on the map? I use the map a lot to see where action is in pub games (rts going down etc)[so not a big fan of the blur either], but if you HAVE to get somethign like this, then obviously it should be on the map.

    I guess the game Cory is referring to 'as all games has something like this' is battlefield 3 with the com-stations. Only difference is that those objectives are often more linear in their approach, where, as said, the NS2 maps often are circular/square which leads to confusion as to where the actual thing is.

    Get rid of it. And if you care about competative, make it toggle, so it can be removed. There's a reason people in SC2 play on lowest quality.
  • ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1961600:date=Aug 12 2012, 03:34 AM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Aug 12 2012, 03:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1961600"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll throw this out there: is there anybody who DOES like this?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I do like the concept. I just don't want it on my screen personally, hence the desire for an option to turn it off.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members
    I don't want an option. It's just bad, so I don't want new players to get it.
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