Is Ramboing too viable?
Samus1111111
Join Date: 2012-08-07 Member: 154930Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2012-08-07 Member: 154930Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">you know we all hate it</div>Ok, the question I pose to you is whether or not it is too easy for a marine to sneak into an alien hive and with the help of a scan, take out everything of value in it before aliens can respond.
The reason this question comes to mind is that almost every game I've khammed since 216 (and some before), we've lost mainly due to 1 or 2 marines using jetpacks (sometimes not even), pushing past all the defenses we've set up (hydra/clogs, whips, shades) and using 1-2 scans to ignore the shade and destroy hundreds of res worth of mutations before the aliens can even get back from where they were. As khamm, I can't even nano-shield or something to defend. Dropping more whips equates to a loss of 15 res since they are destroyed instantly.
I know that UWE has said that jetpacks are OP in the current build, but even without jetpacks, marines are able to waltz into the hive and take out the mutations. With the current alien tech tree, mutations are the heart of the alien's power. Without mutations, the alien team may as well be a piece of paper between the upgraded marines and the hive.
TBH, I don't know what could be done since this isn't just a problem of jetpacks. It may be a combination of sprint/jetpacks/and some other stuff I can't think of atm, but the question stands. Is Ramboing too viable?
The reason this question comes to mind is that almost every game I've khammed since 216 (and some before), we've lost mainly due to 1 or 2 marines using jetpacks (sometimes not even), pushing past all the defenses we've set up (hydra/clogs, whips, shades) and using 1-2 scans to ignore the shade and destroy hundreds of res worth of mutations before the aliens can even get back from where they were. As khamm, I can't even nano-shield or something to defend. Dropping more whips equates to a loss of 15 res since they are destroyed instantly.
I know that UWE has said that jetpacks are OP in the current build, but even without jetpacks, marines are able to waltz into the hive and take out the mutations. With the current alien tech tree, mutations are the heart of the alien's power. Without mutations, the alien team may as well be a piece of paper between the upgraded marines and the hive.
TBH, I don't know what could be done since this isn't just a problem of jetpacks. It may be a combination of sprint/jetpacks/and some other stuff I can't think of atm, but the question stands. Is Ramboing too viable?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
At the same time though, at least aliens have viable static defense options. If it wern't for phase gates marines would be a whole lot worse off.
Maybe alien teleporting needs to be brought back in similar to NS1 movement chambers?
add to this the fact that everything marines have or do is instanly, you have phasegate instantly arrive at location You want weapons you instantly buy them.
As alien after waiting for what feels like an age, you then have to spend time on evolving for sometimes minutes. and then you gotta move to the place where you need to go rofl.
- Cover them in clogs/hydras
- Put whips around them before the marine gets there
- Drop infestation spikes to slow the marine getting to them
- Jump out and kill the marine (presuming you put the upgrades near the hive your in)
- Spread out the upgrades between hives so they can't kill them all in one go
<!--quoteo(post=1962881:date=Aug 14 2012, 01:09 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Aug 14 2012, 01:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1962881"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think its that big of an issue. It just means you need to protect your upgrades better. You can:
- Cover them in clogs/hydras <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->This will work but then what does the gorge do while waiting for a marine to show up in hive? Plus you need at least 4 clogs to completly cover one upgrade.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
- Put whips around them before the marine gets there <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Then marines just shoots them from a distance<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
- Drop infestation spikes to slow the marine getting to them <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Can't see marines unless you have a drifter or player w/ LOS and if the marine is already axing it, I don't think you can drop spikes between them and force him away.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
- Jump out and kill the marine (presuming you put the upgrades near the hive your in) <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->This is probably the best option if you can kill him. But if you lose then you have no comm for 15-30 seconds<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
- Spread out the upgrades between hives so they can't kill them all in one go <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Doesn't solve anything, they still get sniped<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As was said, this is the most viable, but late game when marines have JP and improved weapons, an unmutated skulk jumping out of the hive would just be a free 5 points and (if no one else jumps in to khamm) would result in no khamm for 15-30 seconds.
Also, while the spawn timer is annoying and broken imho, I don't think that this is the problem here. All my aliens are out and about the map attacking the marines and defending other locations. Actually, if one was dead and in the queue, then he'd pop out at the hive being attacked and might be able to defend it. Imo, the problem is the inability of aliens to move quickly from one side of the map to the next. Marines have phasegates and beacons while aliens have nothing like that. I never played NS1, but the movement chambers sound like they could greatly help with this issue.
Alternatively, you can make drifters to scout undefended entrances.
Aliens have tools to deal with ninja marines.
...I feel ashamed that this never occurred to me before now.
While I hadn't thought of that (shame on me XD) and it's a good idea, it still doesn't stop marines from waltzing into your base, nor allow for a quick response from the alien team. Atm, gorge and hydra damage are rather laughable, especially if the Comm is dropping medpacks and ammopacks. Plus, I doubt that 1 gorge and 3 hydras would be able to slow down the marines enough for members of the alien team to arrive to help, let alone kill off the attacking marines, nor keep one of the upgrade buildings alive from even 1 marine. As soon as you're forced to duck into the hive, he focuses the building and it goes down in seconds (literally).
I can live with the fact that marines can waltz into the alien base (aliens can do it to the marine base), but the inability for a fast response by the aline team (thus costing the team a lot of tres) feels unbalanced to me. Basically, I feel hampered by the fact that (while this is an asymmetrical game by design) marines can instantly recall their team to their obs (via the use of tres and of which the can have more than 1), aliens have no such ability. Imagine if aliens could waltz into a marine base and take out the arms lab and protolab while the marine team was on the other side of the map and the marines didn't have beacon. The loss of those upgrades would be HUGE and probably cost them the game. At least the marine upgrade buildings have many more HP than the aline buildings and (iirc) when the arms lab is rebuilt, all of the upgrades would still be there and wouldn't cost additional tres and time to get back online.
As alien comm alot of how I combat these rambos is simply knowing the hiding spots for upgrades - places marines don't usually look. A whip or two never hurts, and while they rarely kill a marine they will keep him from immediately running up to the upgrades. He kills the whip first.
Also locklear, it isn't a fault o the team, they CAN'T be everywhere at once, it's just not possible, so saying "its the teams fault you have someone ramboing" Is just not a legitimate argument, kthxbai.
One marine in your hive room and you can kiss your 30 res spent on carapace goodbye. Quite frankly its bewildering how this can be viewed as acceptable.
Time taken to destroy structure with continuous bile bomb attack from single gorge
Armoury - 12 seconds
Upgraded Armoury - 20 seconds
Arms Lab - 15 seconds
Observatory - 10 seconds
Time taken to destroy mature shell by weapon
LMG - 9 seconds
Knife - 8 seconds
Shotgun - 5 seconds
Time taken to destroy mature spur by weapon
LMG - 6 seconds
Shotgun - 4 seconds
This is considering no adrenaline and no weapon upgrades, though it obviously requires that the alien team have 2 hives, and the bile bomb upgrade. Marines obviously need only the shotgun upgrade. And if you want to talk AOE, lets talk about the grenade launcher.
Also locklear, it isn't a fault o the team, they CAN'T be everywhere at once, it's just not possible, so saying "its the teams fault you have someone ramboing" Is just not a legitimate argument, kthxbai.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OMG, stop derailing posts with your complains of BB.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=120158" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=120158</a>
Also locklear, it isn't a fault o the team, they CAN'T be everywhere at once, it's just not possible, so saying "its the teams fault you have someone ramboing" Is just not a legitimate argument, kthxbai.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1963349:date=Aug 15 2012, 06:13 AM:name=AuroN2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AuroN2 @ Aug 15 2012, 06:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1963349"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One gorge can rip your whole base to shredds, which cost up to 100 or 200 res, how can this be viewed as acceptable?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So why doesn't the commander get out of the comm chair and fight the lone gorge?
Why don't you have one guy stay and defend or be near a phase gate to respond to these rambo gorges?
i think it's a little too easy to rambo bases on both sides atm.
So why doesn't the comm get out of the chair and kill the gorge?
Or why isn't there one marine defending the base and phase gate areas if this counter attack is so effective?
<strike>It takes 58 bilebombs to take out a powernode which is the same for the Advance Armory. (seems like a lot unless I'm reading it wrong)</strike>
Just tested it and it's about 17 BBs to take out a power node.
<strike>And according to Imbalanxd, it takes 20 seconds to take out the Advance Armory.</strike>
With my super high tech timer, I took out the PN in about 18 seconds.
<strike>I couldn't find the stats on how many BBs a gorge can fire per second but based on the above it appears to be about 3 per second which seem fast compared to actual gameplay.</strike>
It's right about 1 per second.
If this is all correct, I do not see a problem with 20 seconds for a gorge to take out a PN. It takes far less time for a marine to cripple alien upgrades which take much longer to rebuild than a single powernode.
Teamwork is such a popular term sad most cannot understand even the basics.
Teamwork is such a popular term sad most cannot understand even the basics.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds like elitist rambling from someone considered competitive only because his rig can handle the game in question.
I think you are missing the point here now.
I've started spamming drifters and it seems to work well against rambos. Plenty of time to react. Topic is null and void.