Cheating?
KnightOwl
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9189Members
Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9189Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Just a newb with a question...</div> Okay, so I'm the only person left on the earth who dosen't own a copy of Half Life (I did but I lost my CD key.. woe is me). And after all the rampant cheating that started going on in Counter Strike I decided it wasn't worth it to rebuy the game. But now I'm starting to hear things about this Natural Selection game. And seeing as how Aliens is one of my most favorite movies of all time (and the fact I think the sweetest movie of all time would involve ALOT of marines against ALOT of aliens...) I think it might be finally worth it to become one of the 'norms' who all own (you all did PURCHASE it right? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ) Half Life. My only concern is cheating. I hate it, and I refuse to do it. I refuse to play games where it's rampant. So to all the old timers out there is cheating an issue with NS? I won't ask you whether or not its worth it to buy HL to play NS because I'm sure I already know your answers but I am curious about cheating.
Comments
So, to answer your question. No cheating isn't that bad (as of now). This is also the type of game where if someone is cheating it's very hard to notice it and easy to ignore. It's just as easy for a marine to mow down a skulk without a cheat as it could be with a cheat. So don't worry about it.
So yes, a few good IPs would be appreciated. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm guessing it stands for Valve Anti Cheat or something. ;p
Hehe.. Terminal Services kicks **obscenity**. Already got my home computer downloading the HL patch and the client install. Now I just gotta run over to the local EB and pickup a copy...
btw any recommended places to play?
try not to join a server with a WHOLE WHACK of NSPlayer, NSPlayer(1) .... u need a few 'veterans' to show u the ropes.
try to join a relatively smaller server (better lag), as in 4-12. and often easier/better teamwork.
sidenote: it's SOOO worth buying HL for this. whoo boy. wouldn't say the same for a whack of mods that have recently graced the scene. not only is it a fantastic game, but there really is no alternative if you want this sorta hybrid gameplay <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
good luck, my fellow homonym! =;oD
Do not use the desktop icon ! Use Start > Programs > Natural Selection > Launch Natural Selection icon instead.
Everything «should» work fine.
Any questions ? Post and I'll be glad to answer you !
The first was on a server called The Spirit Realm. There were two bad games in a row on this server.The first game the marines got off to a bad start and the Admin decided to just change the map so he'd have a chance of winning.
The second game was a one with very few players. For most of the game it was just me and one other alien on our team. The marines had about 3 or 4 guys. Every so often people would join and the teams would increase in size by a couple of players. The Marines always had an advantage in numbers, however..after an hour or so of playing the small alien team was clearly winning. Then I started to see things like Reverend has used Admin_kill on me and or that I was Admin_slapped. I had no idea what that meant but it became clear that the Admin was using his ability to kill me to cheat.
Then even though the marine team increased in size dramatically, the alien team which now numbered only 4 was about to finish them off. That is when Ethereal the server admin called a vote to change the map. Of course all the marines who had just joined a game they were clearly going to lose voted to change the map. So Ethereal cheated us of our win after almost two hours of hard work.
I was upset but I used no profanity nor was I abusive in any way. I simply said Ethereal you are a cheater and that is no way to win. That is when I was banned from the server.
The second experience I had with Admin abuse was on the server...
NS v1.02 - ns2.lanvancouver.com (208.181.81.13:27015)
It was quite a large game with about 10 players on each team. I was commander and we were working extremely hard. After about one and a half hours the marines under my command had secured the entire map save one hive. The game would not have gone on more that another five minutes.
Now a little aside here...Anyone who has commanded knows that there are always marines yelling at you, many using profanity and abusive language. You learn to ignore that stuff while trying to accomodate all of your teams needs and still achieve the objectives you set yourself to win the game for your team.
Because we were so clearly winning after some close calls people started to leave the Alien team. That is when the admin said that if we didnt balance the teams he would start to boot marines. I typed that we were winning fairly and that it would be a poor way to win if the admin changed the teams artificially.
After that I started to see that I was being Admin_slapped and something like Admin slapped me with max damage or something...
Then out of the blue somone typed this COMMANDER RECYCLE ALL THAT **** IN THE MAIN BASE YOU DONT NEED ALL THAT **** YOU ****ING IDIOT YOUVE GOT LIKE 20 ****ING TURRETS IN THERE IT IS LAGGING THE GAME TO ****
Well I was winning the game for my team and so I typed back "We're winning aren't we?"
So then he typed "RECYCLE THAT **** OR I WILL BOOT YOU IT IS LAGGING THE GAME
I thought he was saying that he ws going to start a vote to eject the Commander and I knew my team was happy with me as not only were we 4 minutes from finishing off the last hive but I had been commander in a game just before that we won handily because I knew the map so well and the team worked so well with me.
So I typed "Then boot me you big meany hehe"
The next thing I knew I was off the server.
I logged back on and although quite upset I never use profanity. I just typed that that was a really rotten thing that he did to me and that he should apologize. He ignored me. Finally I said that it was just like the first situation where an Admin had changed the map seconds before the win for my team which was cheating.
That was when he banned me from the server.
The Admin's name was Prodigy.Iv
I must also say that there was no perceptible lag during the game and that noone had complained about lag.
Had there been a problem I might have been looking for ways to reduce the lag. In this case the claim that the turrets I had built in the base were ruining the game was completely unfounded.
Also there is no map max in NS as in Starcraft. There was no way I could have known that i was not to build 15 turrets in my base or even more.
I can handle other players abuse. I do get tired of hearing words like raped and owned and **obscenity** and on and on. I can accept the fact that in pickup games where you dont know who you're playing with until the game starts you will have people on your team that dont know how to get ammo etc. You will also find people who scream for heavy armor and grenade launchers before you even have the infantry portal built.
Whether I am commander or soldier I always try to help people, to teach what I know and to make friends.
It is very sad to me that I could be banned from two servers for outplaying the opposing team.
The second server mentioned was my favourite as there are often large games there that are quite exciting.
I don't know how it works in the NS community, to what extent the creators and players get involved with keeping the game honorable. I just hope that in some way these two admins could be chastised for abusing their power and demonstrating poor sportsmanship.
Well those are my experiences with cheating so far. There are plenty of other places to play so I can still have fun with NS. It is true however that I am less inclined to put two hours into an epic game when the possibility that the admin will just grab victory from my team at the last minute is always there.
Enjoy the game! It is a wonderful Mod and I hope it has a long life <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <b>[/B][B]</b>[B]
I admin a NS server that is open at the moment, will be invite only soon, you could try it if you want:
207.44.134.127:27015
However, be warned.
I kick/ban for:
Profanities
Abusive language (ie: flaming)
Whining
Unbalancing teams
Exploiting game flaws/bugs
Not acting in your teams best interest (for example going Gorg against your teams wishes or taking COMM even if you don't know how to command).
By reading your post I don't think that following those rules will be a problem for you though. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The first was on a server called The Spirit Realm. There were two bad games in a row on this server.The first game the marines got off to a bad start and the Admin decided to just change the map so he'd have a chance of winning.
The second game was a one with very few players. For most of the game it was just me and one other alien on our team. The marines had about 3 or 4 guys. Every so often people would join and the teams would increase in size by a couple of players. The Marines always had an advantage in numbers, however..after an hour or so of playing the small alien team was clearly winning. Then I started to see things like Reverend has used Admin_kill on me and or that I was Admin_slapped. I had no idea what that meant but it became clear that the Admin was using his ability to kill me to cheat.
Then even though the marine team increased in size dramatically, the alien team which now numbered only 4 was about to finish them off. That is when Ethereal the server admin called a vote to change the map. Of course all the marines who had just joined a game they were clearly going to lose voted to change the map. So Ethereal cheated us of our win after almost two hours of hard work.
I was upset but I used no profanity nor was I abusive in any way. I simply said Ethereal you are a cheater and that is no way to win. That is when I was banned from the server.
The second experience I had with Admin abuse was on the server...
NS v1.02 - ns2.lanvancouver.com (208.181.81.13:27015)
It was quite a large game with about 10 players on each team. I was commander and we were working extremely hard. After about one and a half hours the marines under my command had secured the entire map save one hive. The game would not have gone on more that another five minutes.
Now a little aside here...Anyone who has commanded knows that there are always marines yelling at you, many using profanity and abusive language. You learn to ignore that stuff while trying to accomodate all of your teams needs and still achieve the objectives you set yourself to win the game for your team.
Because we were so clearly winning after some close calls people started to leave the Alien team. That is when the admin said that if we didnt balance the teams he would start to boot marines. I typed that we were winning fairly and that it would be a poor way to win if the admin changed the teams artificially.
After that I started to see that I was being Admin_slapped and something like Admin slapped me with max damage or something...
Then out of the blue somone typed this COMMANDER RECYCLE ALL THAT **** IN THE MAIN BASE YOU DONT NEED ALL THAT **** YOU ****ING IDIOT YOUVE GOT LIKE 20 ****ING TURRETS IN THERE IT IS LAGGING THE GAME TO ****
Well I was winning the game for my team and so I typed back "We're winning aren't we?"
So then he typed "RECYCLE THAT **** OR I WILL BOOT YOU IT IS LAGGING THE GAME
I thought he was saying that he ws going to start a vote to eject the Commander and I knew my team was happy with me as not only were we 4 minutes from finishing off the last hive but I had been commander in a game just before that we won handily because I knew the map so well and the team worked so well with me.
So I typed "Then boot me you big meany hehe"
The next thing I knew I was off the server.
I logged back on and although quite upset I never use profanity. I just typed that that was a really rotten thing that he did to me and that he should apologize. He ignored me. Finally I said that it was just like the first situation where an Admin had changed the map seconds before the win for my team which was cheating.
That was when he banned me from the server.
The Admin's name was Prodigy.Iv
I must also say that there was no perceptible lag during the game and that noone had complained about lag.
Had there been a problem I might have been looking for ways to reduce the lag. In this case the claim that the turrets I had built in the base were ruining the game was completely unfounded.
Also there is no map max in NS as in Starcraft. There was no way I could have known that i was not to build 15 turrets in my base or even more.
I can handle other players abuse. I do get tired of hearing words like raped and owned and **obscenity** and on and on. I can accept the fact that in pickup games where you dont know who you're playing with until the game starts you will have people on your team that dont know how to get ammo etc. You will also find people who scream for heavy armor and grenade launchers before you even have the infantry portal built.
Whether I am commander or soldier I always try to help people, to teach what I know and to make friends.
It is very sad to me that I could be banned from two servers for outplaying the opposing team.
The second server mentioned was my favourite as there are often large games there that are quite exciting.
I don't know how it works in the NS community, to what extent the creators and players get involved with keeping the game honorable. I just hope that in some way these two admins could be chastised for abusing their power and demonstrating poor sportsmanship.
Well those are my experiences with cheating so far. There are plenty of other places to play so I can still have fun with NS. It is true however that I am less inclined to put two hours into an epic game when the possibility that the admin will just grab victory from my team at the last minute is always there.
Enjoy the game! It is a wonderful Mod and I hope it has a long life <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <b>[/B][B]</b>[B]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was playing on a server where I built a large wall of offensive turrets backed up by a wall of defensive turrets, shutting off 1 exit from the marine base. We did the same for another exit. The marines had enough resources and built a crapload of seige turrets which, because of the defensive turrets, could not destroy any buildings. After 1 too many seieg turrets, the game crashed.
When I admin an FA server, my "job" is to make sure everyone is having fun. If one side is about to lose, I'll let them finish the map. But if its blown out of proportion (e.g. 10 marine on 4 alien with the marines about to win) I will want the teams evened. I have been on the alien team numerous times where we lost all the hives, there were 1 or 2 aliens left, and an alien built another hive, and came back to win the map.
If you have a problem with an admin, take it up with the head admin, server op, or server owner. If the person who banned you is the server owner, too bad. Its his server, he can do what he wants with it. if you want to be unbanned, send an email, or, if an admin/op/owner vistits these forums, make a thread in the server forum requesting to be unbanned in a MATURE, RESPECTABLE manner. I say MATURE and REPECTABLE because there have been countless times where I viewed a thead and a player is claiming that I banned him because he "was owning the server" and that I "don't like ant good players playing there because they own [me]." This usually gets the player banned on more servers instead of geting unbanned.
Also, VAC is crap. There are still many ways around it that any scriptkiddie who knows how to code can make the cheat undectable. In my opinion, Cheating-Death is much better since it just doesn't allow cheats to work (aside from the wallhack in OGC(which is not of much benefit)). You do not need to worry about aimbots since there are no headshot bonuses. (I looked that the models, yes there are head hitboxes, they just don't give the X ammount multiplier.
I just wanted the community to hear about it so that if it continues to happen eventually they will become known. If they dont do it to anyone else well thats great.
Maybe I shouldnt have posted. I would rather post about positive experiences I've had. It seems though that it was important not to let it go on if it is something that might become common.
As you said it does happen that all hives can be lost or at least they can be down to one hive and the Aliens can come back strong. That is precisely why I had no intention of removing the defences from my home base. Again, the game had not crashed nor was it lagging.
It was like this a lot for me in cs . In some servers everytime i killed the admin he would slay me ... fun ? not really,. well maybe for him ... but all it does is ruin the game ... and very lame.
Because of those two commands , admin_slay and admin_slap if i were to make a hl mod, i would put anti- admin - mod code into it.
they are useful as an alternative to kicking people, basically it's a way to warn them, but as soon as it's used for the admin's pleasure and not to reinforce the rules of the server they become ever so lame.
BTW, the instance with the wall of def chambers being able to heal multiple seige attacks is a bug. even with 10 def chambers a seige can still kill a wall of off chambers by itself. There is, however, a bug that makes seige do 0 dammage insted of it's usual 280 (or whatever).
The map was changed when people actually joined the server, since I'd been slay_team ing the aliens, and it wasn't exactly a "clean" game. Ethereal (the server op) did warn me about this, presumably someone complained to him after I left. No one other than Ethereal brought this up with me, so I didn't think it was a problem - I was under the impression that the Aliens KNEW I was just screwing around.
If you have a problem with an admin, bring it up with the admin FIRST. If the admin continues to give you a problem, then go to the Server Operator. If someone had said "Hey, I don't like that," then I would have stopped doing it. Remember, we're admins, NOT mind readers. Just because you have a problem with something we do doesn't mean that we're doing it just to ruin the game for you, or to "cheat"
I take serious offense to seeing this posted in the NS forum, and if it had been taken up with me in-game, this wouldn't even be an issue. The Spirit Realm is a great server, and I've given serious leeway to even the most annoying people who have joined.
During a game which lasted an inordinate amount of time, I even (finally) gave in to someone's repeated requests to turn on Disco mode (heh), and saw everyone using "glow" within a minute of enabling it. You'd never see this on a server without active admins, and especially not a server where admins are "afraid" of doing anything that might possibly offend someone.
I've used admin_slay once before during a game in which the Aliens were at an extreme disadvantage, since I don't currently have access to execclient to even teams, and only after repeated requests to even the teams (and only then to even the teams to within the standard +2/-2 levels). I'm often on one team or the other (usually Aliens, everyone seems to love the Marines) at a disadvantage of two players, and often end up on the losing side.
I just want to reiterate here the importance of TELLING the admin when something he/she does seems to ruin the game for you, and not just going out and posting on a forum so people can judge the situation without hearing both sides of the story. Even worse is that you apparently didn't wait for the server operator to deal with the situation.
*Edit*
I should also say here that, in addition to often ending up on the side with fewer players, I also find myself switching teams two or three times during games just to keep the teams even. I'll assume that this isn't the 'normal' behavior of an admin who uses adminmod to cheat.
*Re-Edit*
I just noticed he said that Ethereal booted him, after he said Eth was 'cheating.' If the text said "foo slapped you", then "foo" slapped you, or slayed you, or whatever. Don't blame it on another admin. That's why he booted Dayngr, not because he complained. This also falls under 'find out what the other side is.'
My real beef was with Ethereal who booted me for being upset that he changed the map to keep from losing. I logged back on and tried to talk to him about it. I was polite and just asked for an apology. He then banned me from the server without answering me in any way. If I am banned from the server how do I "take it up with the admin". I tried to log on and get it straightened out in a friendly way. I was banned from the server.
Of course you dont want to see it posted here on the NS site. If i knew another way to deal with it I would have used it. It doesnt change the fact that you shouldnt just kill people when you are losing and that if the game isnt going your way you shouldnt just change the map. It is all very silly to get upset about one game and I wouldnt even have posted if that had been the end of it. But to add to that being banned from the server? .... well Ethereal should just take his lumps swallow his pride and say sorry.
Reverend there were two games. The one where you were using your admin powers against us and the one where Ethereal changed the map to keep from losing. Any confusion about the team balance should be cleared up by realizing that.
From your post Reverend it sounds like you take pride in your self, your reputation and the reputation of your server. That is what I was counting on to end up with a good end result. I hope you can take something from this thread that is positive. Learn that admin_slay is something you might play around with when among friends not when people who dont know you are trying to play with you.
Do I sound mean or petulant? I am neither. If you want to have the Moderators remove this thread that is fine with me. I don't enjoy having my name associated with bad feelings. I hope you guys at The Spirit Realm can admit, at least to yourselves, that you were wrong and avoid seeing other posts like this. I wish you all the best in the NS community. Really . I just wanted you to see that when you push people around as Ethereal did to me there is a bit of Karma involved and you might not have the last word after all.
Who knows, maybe he had a realy bad day dealing with players who were abusive or petulant or disruptive. I was'nt like that, never have been.
If you read your post you will notice that you didn't say you were sorry at any time. You tried to justify what you did. Think about it.
NS v1.02 - ns2.lanvancouver.com (208.181.81.13:27015)
<snip>
That was when he banned me from the server.
The Admin's name was Prodigy.Iv
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Yeah, Daynger, I've been kicked by Prodigy for even less.
He changed two maps in a row because he was losing, while he was playing on Kharaa (and I happened to be on Marines). Both times, some people said it wasn't cool, there was booing, etc, but nothing happened. Some time later, he left. Some time later, he came back. By then I was on Kharaa, and he joined Marines, as they were headed downhill. So, they end up being in a state of proximate loss. So I say "Hey Prodigy, your team is losing. Isn't this where you change the map?" I got kicked. This was, of course, taunting the admin, but he had been setting up a pattern. And getting kicked off a server where the admin is abusing things is fine.
Conclusion: Prodigy has a tendency to abuse his power, in at least two cases. That's fine, don't play on his server.