You just described different types of seige weapons, comparing them to Bile Bomb instead of the actual Gorge itself.
It terms of automatic defensive measures, Marines only have the Sentries. The thing to compare it to would be Whips and Hydras, both of which are superior to the Sentries.
Edit: And just because Marines have a bunch of different methods of siege doesn't mean that all of them are effective or efficient.
<!--quoteo(post=1976165:date=Sep 12 2012, 05:53 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Sep 12 2012, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976165"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding the balance changes, only real good one is -Fade eggs now cost 40 (up from 30). Onos eggs now cost 50 (up from 40).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I knew this was coming, hence abusing the onos pub strat to its fullest before time ran out!
<!--quoteo(post=1976145:date=Sep 12 2012, 04:30 PM:name=Jekt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jekt @ Sep 12 2012, 04:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976145"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Next step is to remove the power nodes, if you can't figure it out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree, you can get completely ruined by a couple of stealth power node attacks; especially if all your std rines get whacked and you're left with EXO's who can't ###### fix anything.
<!--quoteo(post=1976165:date=Sep 12 2012, 05:53 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Sep 12 2012, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976165"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding the balance changes, only real good one is -Fade eggs now cost 40 (up from 30). Onos eggs now cost 50 (up from 40).
The others are a bit rubbish and don't address the actual problems they were trying to address. The ammopack one is just stupid (i really don't know how else to say that nicer).
I for one will miss powerpacks. They were a sorely needed quick fix and workaround to all the clunkiness of the powernode system. Situational yes, but the option was there and the tres cost high enough to call it balanced. Power-sniping and obs-sniping with no counter seems to be the new legit strat.
*edit* Still waiting for drifter hp nerf.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Concur.
Game is coming along but I think the whole power system is bollocks and the ammo change is far too effective; sure make ammo packs give 2 clips maybe but to reload the entire amount is just daft. -Peppermint Nitemare
<!--quoteo(post=1976166:date=Sep 12 2012, 11:01 AM:name=Kopikat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kopikat @ Sep 12 2012, 11:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976166"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You just described different types of seige weapons, comparing them to Bile Bomb instead of the actual Gorge itself.
It terms of automatic defensive measures, Marines only have the Sentries. The thing to compare it to would be Whips and Hydras, both of which are superior to the Sentries.
Edit: And just because Marines have a bunch of different methods of siege doesn't mean that all of them are effective or efficient.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also given the superior mobility of aliens over marines (except jetpackers) it's pretty silly that it is the marines who have less static defense capabilities. A single skulk usually has no problem getting behind the marine lines into their base or extractors. But a single marine is lucky to even get past the first metres of infestation before being whacked by a whip, shot by hydras or attacked by a newly spawned skulk. This means that a single skulk is much more valuable than a single marine in this kind of behind the enemy lines use.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2012
I like the Sentry changes. They feel quite balanced, and more cost effective than in the previous build.
Lerk Spike damage still feels too low to be effective. It is also impractical with the Lerk's current flight model. Aiming the Spikes is very difficult while flying.
I've tested (with perfect aim) shooting spikes at a 0 upgrade marine, from a 10m distance. It took 4 to 5 seconds to kill the marine (30 to 40 DPS).
In actual combat, a Lerk has a greater chance of being hit by a marine, than landing spikes on one. I've tried dueling Marines with Spikes alone, only to find out after dying, that only 1 or 2 of my spikes hit them.
Also, Lerk Bite attack rate could be a bit faster. Even when a Lerk ambushes a group of Marines from behind, it's almost impossible to land a bite on more than one marine. (Which is a very dangerous maneuver and should be rewarded.)
Overall, this build brought many positive changes.
AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
<!--quoteo(post=1976165:date=Sep 12 2012, 05:53 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Sep 12 2012, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976165"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->um. because marines have now 4 different types of gorges to deal with building spam 1) gorges with miniguns that can shoot everything. 2) gorges that shoot through walls 3) gorges that throw explosives and only cost 1 tres to resupply fully (dumb ammopack change) 4) gorges that are arguably still rubbish but are being intentionally designed to kill buildings as of this build. Heck, even a vanilla marine can deal with structure spam. Can a vanilla skulk deal with sentry spam? no i didn't think so.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> OH NO. SO MANY GORGES. gotta make a mod for this, turn marines into gorges, but turn the gorge on aliens into a marine. SECRET BACKUP SPY ENABLED. ===================================================== <!--quoteo(post=1976165:date=Sep 12 2012, 05:53 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Sep 12 2012, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976165"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding the balance changes, only real good one is -Fade eggs now cost 40 (up from 30). Onos eggs now cost 50 (up from 40).
The others are a bit rubbish and don't address the actual problems they were trying to address. The ammopack one is just stupid (i really don't know how else to say that nicer).
I for one will miss powerpacks. They were a sorely needed quick fix and workaround to all the clunkiness of the powernode system. Situational yes, but the option was there and the tres cost high enough to call it balanced. Power-sniping and obs-sniping with no counter seems to be the new legit strat.
*edit* Still waiting for drifter hp nerf.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1 to everything but drifter nerf, drifters aren't op enough, need to be buffed to 500 hp and add a 5000 dmg bonus to them, make their cloak be permanent and make it so that they move 100% faster.
<!--quoteo(post=1976183:date=Sep 12 2012, 06:37 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Sep 12 2012, 06:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976183"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the Sentry changes. They feel quite balanced, and more cost effective than in the previous build.
Lerk Spike damage still feels too low to be effective. That is further hampered by the Lerk's current flight model, with very limited air-strafing.
I've tested (with perfect aim) shooting spikes at a 0 upgrade marine, from a 10m distance. It took 4 to 5 seconds to kill the marine (30 to 40 DPS).
In actual combat, a Lerk has a greater chance of being hit by a marine, than landing spikes on one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> last build i could dodge lerk spikes without moving, this build i have to move a pixel to the left so they dont hit me! op change renerf them! turrets are frustratingly still useless, just remove them already, they do ABSOLUTELY GODDAMNED NOTHING. And at that note, remove all alien statics. because nobody wants to play vs ai in a strategy game, oh no way. .... Srsly.
1. Powerpacks: I think powerpacks should stay, they are fine, as they don't make powernodes pointless. The only reason to remove them is the extra layer of defense they add to ips and pg's, but as they are fairly high cost, i think they're mostly used for this purpose in the lategame and imo are not op there. I'd argue that they even add to the atmosphere. When the powernode is destroyed, and only the ips are still working.
2. Sentries: I agree with most posters here, that sentries should be anti player structures. I think the concept of a sentry-like structure used to destroy structures isn't bad per se, but they shouldn't replace sentries. Actually i really liked the way sentries were implemented until now. They were a res dump, didn't really decide any battle, were easy to clear and still helped defending an area by distracting and dealing mild damage. Maybe they needed to get a slight hp/armor buff, but other than that, i think they were fine.
3. Ammo packs: They should at most give 2 clips. Resupplying marines is one of the core abilities of the commander, and he should always have to decide weather to resupply with ammo packs / med kits, drop a support structure (armory) or let the marine(s) die. Personally i think 1 clip is enough. It makes the comm more strategic, in that he will have to communicate to the marines how much pressure the team can apply.
Suggestion: Let the comm see the ammunition marines are carrying, so he can prioritize resupplying.
AdambeanCardiff, South WalesJoin Date: 2005-06-03Member: 53038Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fixed bug causing footsteps to be too quite in some cases.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Do you mean <u>quiet</u>?
Robo lab needs to be cheaper for the incentive to buy EXOs, also sentrys require this as well do they not? Otherwise JPs will always be favoured over EXOs.
I also agree with the above poster, sentrys being more anti-structure is weird. I really think their use as 'corridor' blocker rather than being in rooms would be best. Forcing aliens to take the longer paths. Will have to see how they are used in game first, but it sort of seems like the ARC already has this role.
Okay - first I must say, I also liked the power packs, even as an alien.
BUT: I had an idea how to enable marines to ninja tactics without it:
What if the WELDER can act as a handheld powersource as well? So, you build the phasegate, send 2-3 rines there, one keeps using the welder on it (secondary attack). As long as he does, it is powered and others can phase through. If they are being attacked, he can decide to defend it or keep it powered to let reinforcements phase through - at the cost of being helpless himself.
Maybe the welder can charge up for 2 seconds to give the structure with one click enough power for one use. This way, when a base power node is destroyed and the aliens attack, a marine could charge the infantry portals up to allow one spawn and still be able to fight in the meantime.
So: welder secondary attack: hold on structures to keep them powered OR charge for 2 seconds while not at a structure, then "fire" it at the structure, to enable it for one use (no marine required then).
<!--quoteo(post=1976096:date=Sep 12 2012, 07:31 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Sep 12 2012, 07:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976096"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I personally don't like this direction.. if they wanted more use out of sentries they could have made them cheaper and limited per room to prevent spamming. Ever since the day that sentries got nerfed (out of left field) with their HP its been a wild ride ..
The thing i dont get is: if power packs didnt make sense and they wanted them gone...wth is this battery thing? <i>its the same issue! </i>Taking out the power nodes no longer effect sentry farms.... that used to be one of the biggest purposes behind them, remember? Oh and.. theyre meant to be used offensively.. but somehow i just see this being used defensively no matter what. because a marine is mobile and targets better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Completely agree.
This "offensive sentry with batteries" nonsense is quite silly. it also goes against the design of "all marine buildings require power nodes".
Power packs should just become batteries that last 1 or 2 minutes as was suggested. Sentries should just be limited per power node(be it 2 or 3), and not made of glass. I'm fine with them costing 10 res of they're not paper.
Currently, I see a lot of "OP alien wins" when fades start camping gates. Marines phase, everyone loses his shotgun, then they lose the hive, then it's too late.
2-3 sentries guarding the gate would give them just enough time to jump in and have a small chance at saving it.
<!--quoteo(post=1976212:date=Sep 12 2012, 11:17 AM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Sep 12 2012, 11:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976212"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Robo lab needs to be cheaper for the incentive to buy EXOs, also sentrys require this as well do they not? Otherwise JPs will always be favoured over EXOs.
I also agree with the above poster, sentrys being more anti-structure is weird. I really think their use as 'corridor' blocker rather than being in rooms would be best. Forcing aliens to take the longer paths. Will have to see how they are used in game first, but it sort of seems like the ARC already has this role.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you would think a game developer who lacks ideas/motivation/vision when it comes to a feature such as sentries ... he would go off and do some research and get some inspiration from games who have done similar features well. It seems like none of that has happened, and the result is this steamy pile of dog#$%^
<!--quoteo(post=1976235:date=Sep 12 2012, 12:21 PM:name=piratedave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (piratedave @ Sep 12 2012, 12:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976235"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you would think a game developer who lacks ideas/motivation/vision when it comes to a feature such as sentries ... he would go off and do some research and get some inspiration from games who have done similar features well. It seems like none of that has happened, and the result is this steamy pile of dog#$%^<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Careful here. I'm sure they have some reasons, we just need to find out what reasons. :)
<!--quoteo(post=1976228:date=Sep 12 2012, 07:47 PM:name=WhiteWolf22)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WhiteWolf22 @ Sep 12 2012, 07:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976228"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Okay - first I must say, I also liked the power packs, even as an alien.
BUT: I had an idea how to enable marines to ninja tactics without it:
What if the WELDER can act as a handheld powersource as well? So, you build the phasegate, send 2-3 rines there, one keeps using the welder on it (secondary attack). As long as he does, it is powered and others can phase through. If they are being attacked, he can decide to defend it or keep it powered to let reinforcements phase through - at the cost of being helpless himself.
Maybe the welder can charge up for 2 seconds to give the structure with one click enough power for one use. This way, when a base power node is destroyed and the aliens attack, a marine could charge the infantry portals up to allow one spawn and still be able to fight in the meantime.
So: welder secondary attack: hold on structures to keep them powered OR charge for 2 seconds while not at a structure, then "fire" it at the structure, to enable it for one use (no marine required then).
What do you think?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dope, but go further; make it built in to the end of the axe. Like some sort of common industrial tool on the planets they mine or some ######. So you use it as a melee! Secondary attack is its intended use of the tool.
Providing power! Decentralized power FTW. It would be easy to write some lore around this ######.
WAIT OMG> It's a kinetic absorber, USING IT LIKE A WEAPON CHARGES IT UP!!!
Kill some skulks with it so you can ninja a gate- tellin' you ###### would be off the hook.
I think the only reason they have removed power packs is to prevent confusing new marine commanders with the power node system, you only have to look at TotalBiscuits commander perspective video to see what I'm talking about. He was placing them everywhere thinking they were needed to power stuff.
Don't think they were game breaking at all, and I would like to see them return at some point, possibly after 1.0?
<!--quoteo(post=1976248:date=Sep 12 2012, 02:01 PM:name=Dusteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dusteh @ Sep 12 2012, 02:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976248"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the only reason they have removed power packs is to prevent confusing new marine commanders with the power node system, you only have to look at TotalBiscuits commander perspective video to see what I'm talking about. He was placing them everywhere thinking they were needed to power stuff.
Don't think they were game breaking at all, and I would like to see them return at some point, possibly after 1.0?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yet another reason to rename them to batteries and implement them with a timer.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1976097:date=Sep 12 2012, 06:35 AM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ Sep 12 2012, 06:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976097"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Phase gates need to be a unique self powered structure that can be built on infestation to help bring back more strats into the game...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This. The phase gate could push back infestation a few meters, with a fancy effect, to make it more obvious.
Turrets being changed to anti-structure is VERY questionable. Buildable on infestation? MAC rushing turretfarms into the hives? Are turrets meant to be lategame troll rushing hives with AI units? Or a viable base defense in mid-late game?
The turrets were already a bit too weak, and in result, underused. Now that they are anti-structure(not able to kill skulks, at all), they are totally worthless. You have tons of other tech that's much better at that job. And you're left with less choices in terms of marine defense, as turrets are clearly not a choice anymore.
Developers can you PLEASE take a look at this thread? <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=119348" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/ind...howtopic=119348</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1976255:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:15 AM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Sep 12 2012, 08:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976255"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This. The phase gate could push back infestation a few meters, with a fancy effect, to make it more obvious.
Turrets being changed to anti-structure is VERY questionable. Buildable on infestation? MAC rushing turretfarms into the hives? Are turrets meant to be lategame troll rushing hives with AI units? Or a viable base defense in mid-late game?
The turrets were already a bit too weak, and in result, underused. Now that they are anti-structure(not able to kill skulks, at all), they are totally worthless. You have tons of other tech that's much better at that job. And you're left with less choices in terms of marine defense, as turrets are clearly not a choice anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
maybe another tech upgrade after the research of phase gate (like self-powered phase gates)
and maybe a cooldown between phases that aren't powered by a power node
or an ability that commanders can power a structure for x seconds
<!--quoteo(post=1976117:date=Sep 11 2012, 11:59 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Sep 11 2012, 11:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976117"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sentries being effective against players is almost never fun for anyone,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you mean alien players, im sure marine players arent complaining when a turret takes down a skulk eating a needed phase gate.
what you mean to say is that its annoying for alien players to take out a turret farm. turrets are defensive, theyve always been defensive and will always be defensive. just nerf them as I dont even bother using them when im com anyway lol.
shotguns should be removed too, they are annoying to alien players.
MouseThe Lighter Side of PessimismJoin Date: 2002-03-02Member: 263Members, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><ul><li>John Madden pen tool. Right click to draw on the world, middle click to draw on the screen, backspace to erase drawings (Insight).</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It'd be cool if the comm could to do this on the full-screen map - paint battle plans that the marines can see on their own full-screen maps.
Sentry: EXOs, GLs, ARCs, any marine and now offensive sentrys vs structures....sounds retarded for me. How much more siege options marines need? We will see how it works.
Ammo packs: Increase the tres-cost to 2 or 3 and its fine.
Aliens spawn limit removed....I think possibly a tad vicious but helpful for aliens. Hopefully we dont need to add a variable limit down the track. Still seems like aliens take longer to respawn than marines..a hell of a lot better than before...seems about 5 seconds on average.
Lerk changes have helped but still think the spores need to be moved to ranged if you want to see lerks around once exo's are out. As others have said spike accuracy is an issue...I think bites fine as lerks should not really be trying to get that close. Which is why the current spores mean lerks will vanish and be replaced with more fades (starting to see a couple more Onos' but not sure thats just not sh1ts and giggles stuff). Not sure nerfing onos against LMG's was needed...will wait and see on that I guess....just hope it does not leave vanilla marines turtling last base too strong against the Onos.
Exo thrusters...I guess this is better than jumping but still think them jumping or flying is odd. Mappers either need to put up rails or Exo's watch where they are going. Jet packers being able to buy exo's..thank you was annoying to have to type kill or go on suicide run.
Some nice performance improvements..things seem to be running smoother and less jerky in the heat of a battle.
Comments
You just described different types of seige weapons, comparing them to Bile Bomb instead of the actual Gorge itself.
It terms of automatic defensive measures, Marines only have the Sentries. The thing to compare it to would be Whips and Hydras, both of which are superior to the Sentries.
Edit: And just because Marines have a bunch of different methods of siege doesn't mean that all of them are effective or efficient.
-Fade eggs now cost 40 (up from 30). Onos eggs now cost 50 (up from 40).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I knew this was coming, hence abusing the onos pub strat to its fullest before time ran out!
Agree, you can get completely ruined by a couple of stealth power node attacks; especially if all your std rines get whacked and you're left with EXO's who can't ###### fix anything.
<!--quoteo(post=1976165:date=Sep 12 2012, 05:53 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Sep 12 2012, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976165"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding the balance changes, only real good one is
-Fade eggs now cost 40 (up from 30). Onos eggs now cost 50 (up from 40).
The others are a bit rubbish and don't address the actual problems they were trying to address. The ammopack one is just stupid (i really don't know how else to say that nicer).
I for one will miss powerpacks. They were a sorely needed quick fix and workaround to all the clunkiness of the powernode system. Situational yes, but the option was there and the tres cost high enough to call it balanced. Power-sniping and obs-sniping with no counter seems to be the new legit strat.
*edit*
Still waiting for drifter hp nerf.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Concur.
Game is coming along but I think the whole power system is bollocks and the ammo change is far too effective; sure make ammo packs give 2 clips maybe but to reload the entire amount is just daft.
-Peppermint Nitemare
It terms of automatic defensive measures, Marines only have the Sentries. The thing to compare it to would be Whips and Hydras, both of which are superior to the Sentries.
Edit: And just because Marines have a bunch of different methods of siege doesn't mean that all of them are effective or efficient.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also given the superior mobility of aliens over marines (except jetpackers) it's pretty silly that it is the marines who have less static defense capabilities. A single skulk usually has no problem getting behind the marine lines into their base or extractors. But a single marine is lucky to even get past the first metres of infestation before being whacked by a whip, shot by hydras or attacked by a newly spawned skulk. This means that a single skulk is much more valuable than a single marine in this kind of behind the enemy lines use.
Lerk Spike damage still feels too low to be effective. It is also impractical with the Lerk's current flight model. Aiming the Spikes is very difficult while flying.
I've tested (with perfect aim) shooting spikes at a 0 upgrade marine, from a 10m distance. It took 4 to 5 seconds to kill the marine (30 to 40 DPS).
In actual combat, a Lerk has a greater chance of being hit by a marine, than landing spikes on one. I've tried dueling Marines with Spikes alone, only to find out after dying, that only 1 or 2 of my spikes hit them.
Also, Lerk Bite attack rate could be a bit faster. Even when a Lerk ambushes a group of Marines from behind, it's almost impossible to land a bite on more than one marine. (Which is a very dangerous maneuver and should be rewarded.)
Overall, this build brought many positive changes.
1) gorges with miniguns that can shoot everything.
2) gorges that shoot through walls
3) gorges that throw explosives and only cost 1 tres to resupply fully (dumb ammopack change)
4) gorges that are arguably still rubbish but are being intentionally designed to kill buildings as of this build.
Heck, even a vanilla marine can deal with structure spam. Can a vanilla skulk deal with sentry spam? no i didn't think so.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OH NO.
SO MANY GORGES.
gotta make a mod for this, turn marines into gorges, but turn the gorge on aliens into a marine. SECRET BACKUP SPY ENABLED.
=====================================================
<!--quoteo(post=1976165:date=Sep 12 2012, 05:53 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Sep 12 2012, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976165"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding the balance changes, only real good one is
-Fade eggs now cost 40 (up from 30). Onos eggs now cost 50 (up from 40).
The others are a bit rubbish and don't address the actual problems they were trying to address. The ammopack one is just stupid (i really don't know how else to say that nicer).
I for one will miss powerpacks. They were a sorely needed quick fix and workaround to all the clunkiness of the powernode system. Situational yes, but the option was there and the tres cost high enough to call it balanced. Power-sniping and obs-sniping with no counter seems to be the new legit strat.
*edit*
Still waiting for drifter hp nerf.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1 to everything but drifter nerf, drifters aren't op enough, need to be buffed to 500 hp and add a 5000 dmg bonus to them, make their cloak be permanent and make it so that they move 100% faster.
<!--quoteo(post=1976183:date=Sep 12 2012, 06:37 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Sep 12 2012, 06:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976183"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the Sentry changes. They feel quite balanced, and more cost effective than in the previous build.
Lerk Spike damage still feels too low to be effective. That is further hampered by the Lerk's current flight model, with very limited air-strafing.
I've tested (with perfect aim) shooting spikes at a 0 upgrade marine, from a 10m distance. It took 4 to 5 seconds to kill the marine (30 to 40 DPS).
In actual combat, a Lerk has a greater chance of being hit by a marine, than landing spikes on one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
last build i could dodge lerk spikes without moving, this build i have to move a pixel to the left so they dont hit me! op change renerf them!
turrets are frustratingly still useless, just remove them already, they do ABSOLUTELY GODDAMNED NOTHING.
And at that note, remove all alien statics. because nobody wants to play vs ai in a strategy game, oh no way.
....
Srsly.
2. Sentries: I agree with most posters here, that sentries should be anti player structures. I think the concept of a sentry-like structure used to destroy structures isn't bad per se, but they shouldn't replace sentries. Actually i really liked the way sentries were implemented until now. They were a res dump, didn't really decide any battle, were easy to clear and still helped defending an area by distracting and dealing mild damage. Maybe they needed to get a slight hp/armor buff, but other than that, i think they were fine.
3. Ammo packs: They should at most give 2 clips. Resupplying marines is one of the core abilities of the commander, and he should always have to decide weather to resupply with ammo packs / med kits, drop a support structure (armory) or let the marine(s) die. Personally i think 1 clip is enough. It makes the comm more strategic, in that he will have to communicate to the marines how much pressure the team can apply.
Suggestion: Let the comm see the ammunition marines are carrying, so he can prioritize resupplying.
Do you mean <u>quiet</u>?
I also agree with the above poster, sentrys being more anti-structure is weird. I really think their use as 'corridor' blocker rather than being in rooms would be best. Forcing aliens to take the longer paths. Will have to see how they are used in game first, but it sort of seems like the ARC already has this role.
BUT: I had an idea how to enable marines to ninja tactics without it:
What if the WELDER can act as a handheld powersource as well? So, you build the phasegate, send 2-3 rines there, one keeps using the welder on it (secondary attack). As long as he does, it is powered and others can phase through. If they are being attacked, he can decide to defend it or keep it powered to let reinforcements phase through - at the cost of being helpless himself.
Maybe the welder can charge up for 2 seconds to give the structure with one click enough power for one use. This way, when a base power node is destroyed and the aliens attack, a marine could charge the infantry portals up to allow one spawn and still be able to fight in the meantime.
So: welder secondary attack: hold on structures to keep them powered OR charge for 2 seconds while not at a structure, then "fire" it at the structure, to enable it for one use (no marine required then).
What do you think?
Ever since the day that sentries got nerfed (out of left field) with their HP its been a wild ride ..
The thing i dont get is: if power packs didnt make sense and they wanted them gone...wth is this battery thing? <i>its the same issue! </i>Taking out the power nodes no longer effect sentry farms.... that used to be one of the biggest purposes behind them, remember? Oh and.. theyre meant to be used offensively.. but somehow i just see this being used defensively no matter what. because a marine is mobile and targets better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Completely agree.
This "offensive sentry with batteries" nonsense is quite silly.
it also goes against the design of "all marine buildings require power nodes".
Power packs should just become batteries that last 1 or 2 minutes as was suggested.
Sentries should just be limited per power node(be it 2 or 3), and not made of glass.
I'm fine with them costing 10 res of they're not paper.
Currently, I see a lot of "OP alien wins" when fades start camping gates.
Marines phase, everyone loses his shotgun, then they lose the hive, then it's too late.
2-3 sentries guarding the gate would give them just enough time to jump in and have a small chance at saving it.
I also agree with the above poster, sentrys being more anti-structure is weird. I really think their use as 'corridor' blocker rather than being in rooms would be best. Forcing aliens to take the longer paths. Will have to see how they are used in game first, but it sort of seems like the ARC already has this role.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
Careful here. I'm sure they have some reasons, we just need to find out what reasons. :)
BUT: I had an idea how to enable marines to ninja tactics without it:
What if the WELDER can act as a handheld powersource as well? So, you build the phasegate, send 2-3 rines there, one keeps using the welder on it (secondary attack). As long as he does, it is powered and others can phase through. If they are being attacked, he can decide to defend it or keep it powered to let reinforcements phase through - at the cost of being helpless himself.
Maybe the welder can charge up for 2 seconds to give the structure with one click enough power for one use. This way, when a base power node is destroyed and the aliens attack, a marine could charge the infantry portals up to allow one spawn and still be able to fight in the meantime.
So: welder secondary attack: hold on structures to keep them powered OR charge for 2 seconds while not at a structure, then "fire" it at the structure, to enable it for one use (no marine required then).
What do you think?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dope, but go further; make it built in to the end of the axe. Like some sort of common industrial tool on the planets they mine or some ######. So you use it as a melee! Secondary attack is its intended use of the tool.
Providing power! Decentralized power FTW. It would be easy to write some lore around this ######.
WAIT OMG> It's a kinetic absorber, USING IT LIKE A WEAPON CHARGES IT UP!!!
Kill some skulks with it so you can ninja a gate- tellin' you ###### would be off the hook.
Don't think they were game breaking at all, and I would like to see them return at some point, possibly after 1.0?
Bored?! -.-
Don't think they were game breaking at all, and I would like to see them return at some point, possibly after 1.0?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yet another reason to rename them to batteries and implement them with a timer.
This.
The phase gate could push back infestation a few meters, with a fancy effect, to make it more obvious.
Turrets being changed to anti-structure is VERY questionable.
Buildable on infestation? MAC rushing turretfarms into the hives?
Are turrets meant to be lategame troll rushing hives with AI units? Or a viable base defense in mid-late game?
The turrets were already a bit too weak, and in result, underused.
Now that they are anti-structure(not able to kill skulks, at all), they are totally worthless.
You have tons of other tech that's much better at that job.
And you're left with less choices in terms of marine defense, as turrets are clearly not a choice anymore.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=119348" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/ind...howtopic=119348</a>
Thankyou
cant wait for the final Product!
keep the great updates coming
The phase gate could push back infestation a few meters, with a fancy effect, to make it more obvious.
Turrets being changed to anti-structure is VERY questionable.
Buildable on infestation? MAC rushing turretfarms into the hives?
Are turrets meant to be lategame troll rushing hives with AI units? Or a viable base defense in mid-late game?
The turrets were already a bit too weak, and in result, underused.
Now that they are anti-structure(not able to kill skulks, at all), they are totally worthless.
You have tons of other tech that's much better at that job.
And you're left with less choices in terms of marine defense, as turrets are clearly not a choice anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
maybe another tech upgrade after the research of phase gate (like self-powered phase gates)
and maybe a cooldown between phases that aren't powered by a power node
or an ability that commanders can power a structure for x seconds
you mean alien players, im sure marine players arent complaining when a turret takes down a skulk eating a needed phase gate.
what you mean to say is that its annoying for alien players to take out a turret farm. turrets are defensive, theyve always been defensive and will always be defensive. just nerf them as I dont even bother using them when im com anyway lol.
shotguns should be removed too, they are annoying to alien players.
It'd be cool if the comm could to do this on the full-screen map - paint battle plans that the marines can see on their own full-screen maps.
Jeff
Ammo packs: Increase the tres-cost to 2 or 3 and its fine.
Still seems like aliens take longer to respawn than marines..a hell of a lot better than before...seems about 5 seconds on average.
Lerk changes have helped but still think the spores need to be moved to ranged if you want to see lerks around once exo's are out.
As others have said spike accuracy is an issue...I think bites fine as lerks should not really be trying to get that close.
Which is why the current spores mean lerks will vanish and be replaced with more fades (starting to see a couple more Onos' but not sure thats just not sh1ts and giggles stuff).
Not sure nerfing onos against LMG's was needed...will wait and see on that I guess....just hope it does not leave vanilla marines turtling last base too strong against the Onos.
Exo thrusters...I guess this is better than jumping but still think them jumping or flying is odd. Mappers either need to put up rails or Exo's watch where they are going.
Jet packers being able to buy exo's..thank you was annoying to have to type kill or go on suicide run.
Some nice performance improvements..things seem to be running smoother and less jerky in the heat of a battle.