Well we're going to disagree on this NeoRussia, because I too have quite a bit of experience, and I've seen multitudes of people banned for loading up their copy of TF2 with gamemode or weapon adding plugins. VAC did not warn them or refuse to allow them access to servers, it simply banned them several weeks after they started. Note there's a difference between material/model edits and modifying the client to call new materials and models without replacing existing ones.
I want to know the truth! Give me the red pill! <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121197" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=121197</a>
That was probably a bug that happened some time ago. There is no way to run unregistered plugins in source games without hacking, currently. You cannot be banned for playing with a registered plugin since each plugin has its own signature. Server plugins running client side are not registered. The ban most likely happened because the user decided to run a server side plugin client side, and used an exploit/bug/hack to connect to a Valve server, where VAC picked up the code being exploited/hacked and eventually the user got banned. Valve would have picked up on it if it was an exploit, I'm not sure what their course of action was but it's not the fault of VAC itself but only that small bug. Also, Valve never tell anyone how their system actually catches the code, and unlike it says in their TOS they actually have VAC banned and lifted bans manualy before.
DghelneshiAims to surpass Fana in post edits.Join Date: 2011-11-01Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
I'm just gonna throw this in here FYI: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Anti-Cheat#False-positive_detections" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Anti-Ch...tive_detections</a>
Again, we're just going to have to disagree here. I've seen VAC's shortcoming firsthand, and I don't think you have the evidence or rhetoric to sway my beliefs. Likewise, you seem very confident in your understanding, and I don't think my anecdotes are going to have any major changes in your opinion.
I think VAC is problematic. It's a heavy-handed solution to a low-profile problem, and it isn't even effective against programs running in front of the client or processes which hotload right by it. Its enigmatic nature keeps people on eggshells about what they will and won't lose their entire library for, and skilled cheat makers already know what it does and how it checks anyway. That's just my opinion.
<!--quoteo(post=1978487:date=Sep 16 2012, 04:52 PM:name=SlamHannigan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SlamHannigan @ Sep 16 2012, 04:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1978487"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not sure where else to put it, so I'll put it here. I've gone back to playing after a month or so of not playing, and I come back to find two speedhackers. It's disheartening, and I'd like to know, what measures are being taken to prevent cheating in NS2?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please make a video next time :) Bandicam records 10 minutes and is freeware + filesize is tiny, so no long time uploading needed.
But if you think this is a speedhack if a marine run faster then a skulk, nope. i guessed people will think people are speedhacking, like the other guy's video, if you drop any weapon as marine, and then sprint, you are faster then a skulk thats right but not for ever and not if they use leap or cel. Oh and skulks can be beast, i play the game since the beta but today i found out how some people play that good. Celerity+Leap+jumping makes a skulk SUPER fast. You just leap and press jumping, you speed up so fast, its amazing. But i saw today a player which kill every alien, he has almost 12 kills and just 2 death, i realy wonder how he always turn so fast in every direction. I want spectate him next round and record, but to bad, he ragequit after the other team going to win (cheating don't means you win all time).
<!--quoteo(post=1979120:date=Sep 17 2012, 12:26 PM:name=MOOtant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MOOtant @ Sep 17 2012, 12:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979120"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't lose any library.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, because I haven't been nailed by VAC. People who get VAC banned on one game get banned on all of them, so if you get flagged for trying to play HL:DM with a bad mod installed you get locked out of L4D and TF2.
<!--quoteo(post=1979122:date=Sep 17 2012, 11:29 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Sep 17 2012, 11:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979122"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, because I haven't been nailed by VAC. People who get VAC banned on one game get banned on all of them, so if you get flagged for trying to play HL:DM with a bad mod installed you get locked out of L4D and TF2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, you don't. VAC works on a per engine basis for GoldSrc and Source. It works on a per game basis for later Source games (post L4D)[1].
<strike>Please stop spreading misinformation. </strike> Sorry for this comment.
<!--quoteo(post=1979137:date=Sep 17 2012, 12:57 PM:name=Darkster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Darkster @ Sep 17 2012, 12:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979137"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, you don't. VAC works on a per engine basis for GoldSrc and Source. It works on a per game basis for later Source games (post L4D)[1].
Please stop spreading misinformation.
[1] <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22782122&postcount=10" target="_blank">http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/show...mp;postcount=10</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> TF2, HL:DM, and L4D are all Source engine games, none of which are post-L4D. I'm not saying anything that isn't true, and I thank you to stop making egregious claims of misinformation against other posters.
<!--quoteo(post=1979145:date=Sep 17 2012, 12:08 PM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Sep 17 2012, 12:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979145"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->TF2, HL:DM, and L4D are all Source engine games, none of which are post-L4D. I'm not saying anything that isn't true, and I thank you to stop making egregious claims of misinformation against other posters.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> HL:DM isn't Source, it's GoldSrc. Unless you are talking about HL2:DM, or HLS:DM both of which are not HL:DM. L4D <i>is</i> included as post-L4D.
1) There was an hl:dm before HL2? Guess that was my bad then, but I don't think it was fair of you to assume my statement was misinformation instead of correct.
<!--quoteo(post=1979114:date=Sep 17 2012, 11:21 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Sep 17 2012, 11:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think VAC is problematic. It's a heavy-handed solution to a low-profile problem, and it isn't even effective against programs running in front of the client or processes which hotload right by it. Its enigmatic nature keeps people on eggshells about what they will and won't lose their entire library for, and skilled cheat makers already know what it does and how it checks anyway. That's just my opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Low-profile problem? I've seen how the absence of VAC can truly destroy a game. I'm talking about SupCom 2. Perhaps that's compounded by a publisher or developer who don't give a damn about the game anymore, but it's gotten to the point where the cheat engine table for a common research exploit (among a multitude of others) was even posted on the steam forums, then removed a few months ago. I've now seen it hosted on websites which are spammed ingame by people who want the game dead (I guess?). With a p2p setup, you can never know that you're not paired against a cheater on a daily basis, and moreover you can't do anything about it because neither Valve nor the developer care.
So, server admins' decisions (mind you, without even a first-person spectate) are a better solution? That sounds quite ridiculous.
Also, I've been playing VAC games for several years without any issues. I don't like running mods though, and I never do. Maybe people who like to run .dll and .exe-altering mods are sometimes affected, in which case maybe people should be careful where they're installing mods from, or take it up with Valve. I don't think mods installed through an official mod manager like with NS2 will be a problem though.
People complaining about getting banned because they try to mod ###### into a game and play in VAC servers? Sounds like a pretty obvious reason for getting banned.
I have NEVER heard of a single instance where vac banned people making legitimate plugins for legitimate reasons where it was not found in error and reverted.. Every single time i have heard about the plugins that get people banned it was always doing something that was obviously cheating the game or had the potential to be used for cheating.. Or trying to load admin plugins on the client which has that EXACT potential...
VAC is arguably the most passive of all the anti-cheats out there and imo is something neccessary for this game to do well, it adds real consequence to cheating.
Yeah VAC cleaned up house and made a huge positive difference. In the late 90's and early 2000's it was very common to find servers with someone using aimbots, speed hacks, and wall hacks. Servers that didn't have active admins emptied quickly as soon as one or more jerks would turn their hack on.
<!--quoteo(post=1979187:date=Sep 17 2012, 04:06 PM:name=Mr R0YB0T 0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr R0YB0T 0 @ Sep 17 2012, 04:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979187"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah VAC cleaned up house and made a huge positive difference. In the late 90's and early 2000's it was very common to find servers with someone using aimbots, speed hacks, and wall hacks. Servers that didn't have active admins emptied quickly as soon as one or more jerks would turn their hack on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anybody remember the good old days of punkbuster servers? lol oh the good old days.
Anyhow, I think the introduction of steam workshop in the case of NS2 mods would make the whole being banned because of a mod thing, much less of an issue.
<!--quoteo(post=1979187:date=Sep 17 2012, 08:06 PM:name=Mr R0YB0T 0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr R0YB0T 0 @ Sep 17 2012, 08:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979187"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah VAC cleaned up house and made a huge positive difference. In the late 90's and early 2000's it was very common to find servers with someone using aimbots, speed hacks, and wall hacks. Servers that didn't have active admins emptied quickly as soon as one or more jerks would turn their hack on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Playing CS pre 1.6 on my old box was a complete joke, I would say roughly 1/5th of everyone who played that game had some sort of vision/speed hack going on, hell even I had a "reverse lighting" "modification" I used to see in the dark lmao. Soft hacks (such as the reverse lighting, or wireframes) were so common. The flat out "spin 1000x and instant head shot everyone" hacks were prevalent too, although were more obvious to fix when there were active server admins.
All of that vanished when VAC Came out, see before even if they caught you, there was so many servers to choose from that you could just hop onto a new one. Well VAC changed that, that is for sure. You get caught once on any vac game, and you are done like dirt for good, from ALL vac games. It is fantastic.
Techercizer, I think you exaggerate. I believe you, that there may be some wrong positive VAC banns. But this is the very minority of cases. You sound like, you want to reject VAC only because there may be some rare cases where it didn't work right, and you didn't see all the good that system has done for every normal player that hasn't tried to alter the game exe.
You shouldn't reject an idea because it isn't perfect and in exchange stick with a much much worse solution.
<!--quoteo(post=1979191:date=Sep 18 2012, 07:17 AM:name=bcraig10488)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bcraig10488 @ Sep 18 2012, 07:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979191"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anybody remember the good old days of punkbuster servers? lol oh the good old days.
Anyhow, I think the introduction of steam workshop in the case of NS2 mods would make the whole being banned because of a mod thing, much less of an issue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I still have fond memories of Cheating Death...rainbow 6 RVS I think was last game I played that used that..or was it operation flashpoint?
<!--quoteo(post=1979183:date=Sep 18 2012, 06:47 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Sep 18 2012, 06:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979183"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Having lived through the pre-VAC online gaming days, I can say that VAC has done wonders to making online gaming playable again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> +1
<!--quoteo(post=1979187:date=Sep 18 2012, 07:06 AM:name=Mr R0YB0T 0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr R0YB0T 0 @ Sep 18 2012, 07:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979187"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah VAC cleaned up house and made a huge positive difference. In the late 90's and early 2000's it was very common to find servers with someone using aimbots, speed hacks, and wall hacks. Servers that didn't have active admins emptied quickly as soon as one or more jerks would turn their hack on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes and any sort of competitive game play was done with CD PB and/or fraps or similar screen captures. Even now with punkbuster BF3 has all sorts of hackers (sad as pb used to do such a good job)..ever wanted to be knifed by a player still in their spawn? VAC has worked and cut down the hackers...sure there are still some out there...always will be...but VAC makes it as hard for them as possible.
<!--quoteo(post=1979473:date=Sep 18 2012, 04:58 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Sep 18 2012, 04:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979473"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Techercizer, I think you exaggerate. I believe you, that there may be some wrong positive VAC banns. But this is the very minority of cases. You sound like, you want to reject VAC only because there may be some rare cases where it didn't work right, and you didn't see all the good that system has done for every normal player that hasn't tried to alter the game exe.
You shouldn't reject an idea because it isn't perfect and in exchange stick with a much much worse solution.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I never said I rejected VAC. I said it had problems.
Comments
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121197" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=121197</a>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Anti-Cheat#False-positive_detections" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valve_Anti-Ch...tive_detections</a>
I think VAC is problematic. It's a heavy-handed solution to a low-profile problem, and it isn't even effective against programs running in front of the client or processes which hotload right by it. Its enigmatic nature keeps people on eggshells about what they will and won't lose their entire library for, and skilled cheat makers already know what it does and how it checks anyway. That's just my opinion.
Please make a video next time :)
Bandicam records 10 minutes and is freeware + filesize is tiny, so no long time uploading needed.
But if you think this is a speedhack if a marine run faster then a skulk, nope.
i guessed people will think people are speedhacking, like the other guy's video, if you drop any weapon as marine, and then sprint, you are faster then a skulk thats right but not for ever and not if they use leap or cel.
Oh and skulks can be beast, i play the game since the beta but today i found out how some people play that good.
Celerity+Leap+jumping makes a skulk SUPER fast.
You just leap and press jumping, you speed up so fast, its amazing.
But i saw today a player which kill every alien, he has almost 12 kills and just 2 death, i realy wonder how he always turn so fast in every direction.
I want spectate him next round and record, but to bad, he ragequit after the other team going to win (cheating don't means you win all time).
Sorry for my english...im out of training.
Yeah, because I haven't been nailed by VAC. People who get VAC banned on one game get banned on all of them, so if you get flagged for trying to play HL:DM with a bad mod installed you get locked out of L4D and TF2.
No, you don't. VAC works on a per engine basis for GoldSrc and Source. It works on a per game basis for later Source games (post L4D)[1].
<strike>Please stop spreading misinformation. </strike> Sorry for this comment.
[1] <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22782122&postcount=10" target="_blank">http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/show...mp;postcount=10</a>
Please stop spreading misinformation.
[1] <a href="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22782122&postcount=10" target="_blank">http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/show...mp;postcount=10</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
TF2, HL:DM, and L4D are all Source engine games, none of which are post-L4D. I'm not saying anything that isn't true, and I thank you to stop making egregious claims of misinformation against other posters.
HL:DM isn't Source, it's GoldSrc. Unless you are talking about HL2:DM, or HLS:DM both of which are not HL:DM. L4D <i>is</i> included as post-L4D.
2) How on earth is L4D classified as post-L4D?
Low-profile problem? I've seen how the absence of VAC can truly destroy a game. I'm talking about SupCom 2. Perhaps that's compounded by a publisher or developer who don't give a damn about the game anymore, but it's gotten to the point where the cheat engine table for a common research exploit (among a multitude of others) was even posted on the steam forums, then removed a few months ago. I've now seen it hosted on websites which are spammed ingame by people who want the game dead (I guess?). With a p2p setup, you can never know that you're not paired against a cheater on a daily basis, and moreover you can't do anything about it because neither Valve nor the developer care.
So, server admins' decisions (mind you, without even a first-person spectate) are a better solution? That sounds quite ridiculous.
Also, I've been playing VAC games for several years without any issues. I don't like running mods though, and I never do. Maybe people who like to run .dll and .exe-altering mods are sometimes affected, in which case maybe people should be careful where they're installing mods from, or take it up with Valve. I don't think mods installed through an official mod manager like with NS2 will be a problem though.
I have NEVER heard of a single instance where vac banned people making legitimate plugins for legitimate reasons where it was not found in error and reverted.. Every single time i have heard about the plugins that get people banned it was always doing something that was obviously cheating the game or had the potential to be used for cheating.. Or trying to load admin plugins on the client which has that EXACT potential...
VAC is arguably the most passive of all the anti-cheats out there and imo is something neccessary for this game to do well, it adds real consequence to cheating.
In the late 90's and early 2000's it was very common to find servers with someone using aimbots, speed hacks, and wall hacks. Servers that didn't have active admins emptied quickly as soon as one or more jerks would turn their hack on.
In the late 90's and early 2000's it was very common to find servers with someone using aimbots, speed hacks, and wall hacks. Servers that didn't have active admins emptied quickly as soon as one or more jerks would turn their hack on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anybody remember the good old days of punkbuster servers? lol oh the good old days.
Anyhow, I think the introduction of steam workshop in the case of NS2 mods would make the whole being banned because of a mod thing, much less of an issue.
In the late 90's and early 2000's it was very common to find servers with someone using aimbots, speed hacks, and wall hacks. Servers that didn't have active admins emptied quickly as soon as one or more jerks would turn their hack on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Playing CS pre 1.6 on my old box was a complete joke, I would say roughly 1/5th of everyone who played that game had some sort of vision/speed hack going on, hell even I had a "reverse lighting" "modification" I used to see in the dark lmao. Soft hacks (such as the reverse lighting, or wireframes) were so common. The flat out "spin 1000x and instant head shot everyone" hacks were prevalent too, although were more obvious to fix when there were active server admins.
All of that vanished when VAC Came out, see before even if they caught you, there was so many servers to choose from that you could just hop onto a new one. Well VAC changed that, that is for sure. You get caught once on any vac game, and you are done like dirt for good, from ALL vac games. It is fantastic.
You sound like, you want to reject VAC only because there may be some rare cases where it didn't work right, and you didn't see all the good that system has done for every normal player that hasn't tried to alter the game exe.
You shouldn't reject an idea because it isn't perfect and in exchange stick with a much much worse solution.
Anyhow, I think the introduction of steam workshop in the case of NS2 mods would make the whole being banned because of a mod thing, much less of an issue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still have fond memories of Cheating Death...rainbow 6 RVS I think was last game I played that used that..or was it operation flashpoint?
<!--quoteo(post=1979183:date=Sep 18 2012, 06:47 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Sep 18 2012, 06:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979183"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Having lived through the pre-VAC online gaming days, I can say that VAC has done wonders to making online gaming playable again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
<!--quoteo(post=1979187:date=Sep 18 2012, 07:06 AM:name=Mr R0YB0T 0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr R0YB0T 0 @ Sep 18 2012, 07:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1979187"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah VAC cleaned up house and made a huge positive difference.
In the late 90's and early 2000's it was very common to find servers with someone using aimbots, speed hacks, and wall hacks. Servers that didn't have active admins emptied quickly as soon as one or more jerks would turn their hack on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes and any sort of competitive game play was done with CD PB and/or fraps or similar screen captures.
Even now with punkbuster BF3 has all sorts of hackers (sad as pb used to do such a good job)..ever wanted to be knifed by a player still in their spawn?
VAC has worked and cut down the hackers...sure there are still some out there...always will be...but VAC makes it as hard for them as possible.
You sound like, you want to reject VAC only because there may be some rare cases where it didn't work right, and you didn't see all the good that system has done for every normal player that hasn't tried to alter the game exe.
You shouldn't reject an idea because it isn't perfect and in exchange stick with a much much worse solution.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never said I rejected VAC. I said it had problems.