I agree that movement is a huge part, if not the most important part of the mod.. but making it exactly like NS1 isnt the only, nor the best answer currently. To accurately re-create a FPS based movement system in a way thats non fps based, in a completely different engine/language takes time, especially with the way NS2 currently handles player collisions. While work could be done to correct the collisions in lua, it would be quite slow and eat into the already minuscule server overhead. Ideally in the end thats exactly how I want the movement to be however, with just an option to still hold w/having it ignored, and re-creating NS1's movement as closely as possible.
Yes ideally the classic mod would hope to attract the old NS1 vets, but arguably if thats the best it can ever hope to achieve, I doubt it will have much lasting time. Just like NS2 it needs to make certain aspects easier initially, there's plenty of ways to lower the learning curve, and even raise the skill ceiling at the same time, not just with making bunnyhopping easier.
Having the same behavior while holding or not w in the air would make some sense, you can't really accelerate in the air anyway.
Having two different behaviors however allows to have finner controls. If I remember correctly in warsow when you release w you can look left and right without affecting your velocity direction, so you can shoot stuff that are perpendicular to your direction. Not really useful in NS2 though.
is it normal to hit something and lose your momentum and then need to get back your speed to be able to jump, otherwise your doing like little useless jumps and not going anywhere.
I find this pretty bad in combat for a skulk soon as you hit a marine you have to run for 2 secs till u get your speed back up then you can start to jump. it makes you an easy target.
We can all agree that movement is not perfect yet but as stated before its being worked on. It will take time before we can make it feel perfect. We do hope to be able to have both bhop versions working later (holding w or not) if that is possible. But as for now having it accessible matters more. It takes about 15 minutes to get used to it if you know how to bhop in ns1.
During the beta I had a lot of discussions with players and I got very positive responese about the current bhop. Players could practice it during game without dropping down to near 0 speed, holding w allows them to keep their base speed even if they don't manage to get the strafing right. This allows players to learn bunnyhoping without dying constantly until they get the speed up.
You should be able to yes. Just make sure under mods you have ns2c set to active, then start your own local server and once in the game, open console with ~ and type cheats 1 Assuming you have done everything correctly you should be able to try everything out.
<!--quoteo(post=2014688:date=Nov 8 2012, 12:15 AM:name=[R8]DJBourgeoisie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ([R8]DJBourgeoisie @ Nov 8 2012, 12:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2014688"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> You should be able to yes. Just make sure under mods you have ns2c set to active, then start your own local server and once in the game, open console with ~ and type cheats 1 Assuming you have done everything correctly you should be able to try everything out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't feel like GoldSrc movement.. I tried peeking at the source, but it seems that the core movement is now a black box? The Player.lua references a mixin that isn't supplied with the game. I saw a big chunk of quake/goldsrc-looking movement code being swapped out for a 1-liner in one of the recent commits.
Can someone shed some light on this? I have a ###### ton of knowledge about quake/goldsrc movement code, but if we can't access the movement code then it doesn't really matter...
The mixins are included with the game in the core folder off of your main NS2 installation, core/lua/mixins/GroundMoveMixin or BaseMoveMixin most likely is what your referring to.
Regarding the gldsrc movement code change that most likely was just me moving a file that has some of the gldsrc movement code into a different sub folder within in the mod.
Is it your goal to also recreate the goldSrc movement feel, or just the gameplay?
Personally I have no problem with bunny hopping without jump timing and letting people just hold W, but IMO it's important that the strafing A/D bunnyhop still feels authentic.
I think the goal should be to first replicate goldSrc movement as closely as possible and expand from there. As of right now I think it still needs a lot of work, it feels way too fast in some places.
The goal would be to re-create it without the forward restriction and preferably a configurable jump queue system where you can hold space/queue space/old NS1 style jump.
I am probably going to take a look at porting PM_MOVE and the requirements.
Its nice to see you're looking at porting the movement. For the current movement system if it helps the major movement problems seem to be losing speed in mid air when jumping, and strafing in air moving you sideways. The jumping might have been a bit floaty too. I haven't looked at the code but I found it interesting that if you wigglewalk and hold down jump you gain speed, but you can't gain speed normally from strafing at and angle like in ns1 so it works in a different way and it only works while jumping. Marine double jump isn't being forgotten about right?
So far it looks like you already made a lot of progress. I haven't had a chance to play on a populated server yet but I'll try to later.
Lerk spores are already like NS1 mostly, mainly just a slightly shorter cloud duration with a slightly lower energy cost to encourage more active lerking.
Crouch on skulk should currently make you not stick to anything like NS1 also, but may have broken last minute when i was trying to fix the massive hitching on land.
<!--quoteo(post=2019285:date=Nov 11 2012, 07:21 AM:name=Trance420)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Trance420 @ Nov 11 2012, 07:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2019285"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if every server runs this mod then i would be in heaven<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I saw one server, but max of 5 People, im sure the problem is, that the game automatic filter everytime you search for servers. So "filter modded" is always marked...
I looked a bit at the skulk movement, the major difference with NS1 is the low acceleration, which makes the skulk feel fat. You should increase ground acceleration 1.5-2 times.
Air acceleration should be removed also, but I'm not sure how to do that without breaking the air strafe.
The wall jump is a bit off, in NS1 you gain speed in the direction you're looking at, and it has a decent reach.
I'll be pushing stuff to this fork I just made: <a href="https://github.com/maesse/NS2c/commits/Dev" target="_blank">https://github.com/maesse/NS2c/commits/Dev</a>
I suggest you do something like that, Yuuki, or it's too much trouble to see what changes you made.
Also, does anybody know if I can "hot-patch" NS2 without running the Decoda debugger attached? Or somehow bring down the overhead?
<!--quoteo(post=2013552:date=Nov 6 2012, 08:55 PM:name=tarshish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tarshish @ Nov 6 2012, 08:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2013552"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... Unless you literally have years of practice being bad at NS1 and holding +forward a lot ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Tarshish, have you played any games prior to HalfLife? Do you understand where strafe jumping came from and how it originally worked? (these are rhetorical questions of course) I believe xDragon is on the correct path for his current strafe jumping technique. Holding forward for strafe jumping should, in my opinion, stay in the game. It was a HUGE disappointment to find that the current devs destroyed the movement in NS2. To come across this mod and re-live the original movement was heaven!
Comments
Yes ideally the classic mod would hope to attract the old NS1 vets, but arguably if thats the best it can ever hope to achieve, I doubt it will have much lasting time. Just like NS2 it needs to make certain aspects easier initially, there's plenty of ways to lower the learning curve, and even raise the skill ceiling at the same time, not just with making bunnyhopping easier.
Having two different behaviors however allows to have finner controls. If I remember correctly in warsow when you release w you can look left and right without affecting your velocity direction, so you can shoot stuff that are perpendicular to your direction. Not really useful in NS2 though.
<a href="http://www.warsow.net/wiki/Movement" target="_blank">http://www.warsow.net/wiki/Movement</a>
I find this pretty bad in combat for a skulk soon as you hit a marine you have to run for 2 secs till u get your speed back up then you can start to jump. it makes you an easy target.
We do hope to be able to have both bhop versions working later (holding w or not) if that is possible. But as for now having it accessible matters more. It takes about 15 minutes to get used to it if you know how to bhop in ns1.
During the beta I had a lot of discussions with players and I got very positive responese about the current bhop. Players could practice it during game without dropping down to near 0 speed, holding w allows them to keep their base speed even if they don't manage to get the strafing right. This allows players to learn bunnyhoping without dying constantly until they get the speed up.
also after jumping it wouldnt let me cloak with a shade in the area
You should be able to yes. Just make sure under mods you have ns2c set to active, then start your own local server and once in the game, open console with ~ and type cheats 1 Assuming you have done everything correctly you should be able to try everything out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
works great thanks!
Is a link to all the source files for the custom models used in the game currently; if anyone should be so interested in looking at them.
Can someone shed some light on this? I have a ###### ton of knowledge about quake/goldsrc movement code, but if we can't access the movement code then it doesn't really matter...
Regarding the gldsrc movement code change that most likely was just me moving a file that has some of the gldsrc movement code into a different sub folder within in the mod.
Is it your goal to also recreate the goldSrc movement feel, or just the gameplay?
Personally I have no problem with bunny hopping without jump timing and letting people just hold W, but IMO it's important that the strafing A/D bunnyhop still feels authentic.
I am probably going to take a look at porting PM_MOVE and the requirements.
Also I would like to know if getting shadowstep as fade is an option. I kinda like the feature on ns2.
So far it looks like you already made a lot of progress. I haven't had a chance to play on a populated server yet but I'll try to later.
Crouch on skulk should currently make you not stick to anything like NS1 also, but may have broken last minute when i was trying to fix the massive hitching on land.
I saw one server, but max of 5 People, im sure the problem is, that the game automatic filter everytime you search for servers.
So "filter modded" is always marked...
Air acceleration should be removed also, but I'm not sure how to do that without breaking the air strafe.
The wall jump is a bit off, in NS1 you gain speed in the direction you're looking at, and it has a decent reach.
Otherwise the gorge jump height seems a bit high.
<a href="http://www2.zshare.ma/ewhkz2m22dl8" target="_blank">http://www2.zshare.ma/ewhkz2m22dl8</a>
I suggest you do something like that, Yuuki, or it's too much trouble to see what changes you made.
Also, does anybody know if I can "hot-patch" NS2 without running the Decoda debugger attached? Or somehow bring down the overhead?
Tarshish, have you played any games prior to HalfLife? Do you understand where strafe jumping came from and how it originally worked? (these are rhetorical questions of course) I believe xDragon is on the correct path for his current strafe jumping technique. Holding forward for strafe jumping should, in my opinion, stay in the game. It was a HUGE disappointment to find that the current devs destroyed the movement in NS2. To come across this mod and re-live the original movement was heaven!
Be prepared to turn off your sound tho.