NS2Stats & Consistency Checking

Security

<div class="IPBDescription">.</div>Right.

So, can anyone tell me if it is possible to either whitelist NS2Stats or make it auto-download for clients?

<b>Why on earth</b> would consistency checking require clients to have fully serverside mods installed anyway? Seems like a massive design flaw to me.

It's not necessary to kick people either. On sv_pure TF2 servers, non-vanilla content just won't work for users who have it installed. Noone is kicked for it.

eLbot

<!--quoteo(post=1984504:date=Sep 29 2012, 02:35 AM:name=Whosat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Whosat @ Sep 29 2012, 02:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984504"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I got that as well even specifying the exact lua files that ns2stats modifies.

Invalid Data.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

^Post from the other thread.

-----

I'm having this issue too, even upon ensuring none the changed lua files are being checked (or even disabling conchecks entirely!). Looking at ns2stats.org - it seems no recent games are making their way onto their databases either - something odd here.

Zeikko

The current version of ns2stats does not work with the consistency checking. Hopefully we'll be able to fix it by updating the mod but i'm not sure about it. I can't give any timeline when we'll get ns2stats to work again. I'll keep you posted.

Wilson

TF2 has all the vanilla files in a gcf archive so it can just use those. NS2 doesn't so if you overwrite the files it has no defaults to fall back to. That's why you're supposed to install mods via steam workshop because it doesn't overwrite the original files.

Max

<!--quoteo(post=1984434:date=Sep 28 2012, 11:23 PM:name=Security)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Security @ Sep 28 2012, 11:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984434"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, can anyone tell me if it is possible to either whitelist NS2Stats or make it auto-download for clients?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't tried it out, but NS2 Stats is in the <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=99799104" target="_blank">Workshop </a> now so if you configure your sever to use that instead of directly modifying the NS2 files, you shouldn't have any problem.

<!--quoteo(post=1984434:date=Sep 28 2012, 11:23 PM:name=Security)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Security @ Sep 28 2012, 11:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984434"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Why on earth</b> would consistency checking require clients to have fully serverside mods installed anyway? Seems like a massive design flaw to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Our design originally had server side only mods, but we later realized this was a special case that was unnecessary. Server side mods are tiny by their nature since they don't contain any assets so downloading them onto the client shouldn't be a big deal (and you can subscribe on your client to avoid the download if it is).

Max

<!--quoteo(post=1984567:date=Sep 29 2012, 06:45 AM:name=Zeikko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zeikko @ Sep 29 2012, 06:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984567"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The current version of ns2stats does not work with the consistency checking. Hopefully we'll be able to fix it by updating the mod but i'm not sure about it. I can't give any timeline when we'll get ns2stats to work again. I'll keep you posted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I will take a look.

Update: I tried it out and it works fine for me. Perhaps this is a problem with the server configuration? Setting up mods isn't the easiest thing to do at the moment due to some of the current limitations of Steam Workshop. To setup my test server, I subscribed to ns2stats in workshop and then ran sever.exe with this command line:

server.exe -modstorage c:\temp\mods -mods "5f2d040" -map ns2_summit

The first time you run, it will download the mod. Then I restarted and connected with a client.

Whosat

Hey Max, just read your update.

I noticed you used -modstorage. In what circumstances do we need to do so?

Also, I noticed you aren't using the mod id as found in the steam workshop URL of the workshop item (which is 99799104), are they interchangeable?

Security

Thanks for your reply Max.

<!--quoteo(post=1984611:date=Sep 29 2012, 05:20 PM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ Sep 29 2012, 05:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984611"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To setup my test server, I subscribed to ns2stats in workshop and then ran sever.exe with this command line:

server.exe -modstorage c:\temp\mods -mods "5f2d040" -map ns2_summit

The first time you run, it will download the mod. Then I restarted and connected with a client.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<i>Sort of works</i>, but I had to subscribe my local NS2 client to <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=99799104" target="_blank">NS2Stats</a> and then upload the Workshop folder to my server first.

There is <b>no</b> other way without having Steam & NS2 installed on the server. And even then, if operating by Remote Desktop, NS2 could not be started for the initial mod download, as 3D Applications can't be started over Remote Desktop.

It also works only as long as the mod itself is entirely unmodified & identical to the workshop version, making it impossible to modify/customize the mod with consistency checking enabled.
(Other than the ns2stats_config.json file which it creates in \Roaming\Natural Selection 2\ after the first run.)

Not a very good and acceptable solution. Admins should NOT be forced to use the Steam Workshop for modding.
I won't run it like that, as I like to modify my NS2Stats version a bit.

I'd suggest just including an extra folder with vanilla files with the server, which the consistency check then uses to check against the connecting clients files, rather than the possibly modified server files.

That would solve the current problems with serverside mods & consistency checking right away.

MCMLXXXIV

You can disable the consistency check and mod the files inside the workshop folder if you want to mod them a bit - I've done that for a few tests for fixes in the Combat Mod... Unfortunately that does open you up to cheats somewhat, but no more so than in build 220...

Security

<!--quoteo(post=1985260:date=Sep 30 2012, 11:30 PM:name=MCMLXXXIV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MCMLXXXIV @ Sep 30 2012, 11:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985260"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can disable the consistency check and mod the files inside the workshop folder if you want to mod them a bit - I've done that for a few tests for fixes in the Combat Mod... Unfortunately that does open you up to cheats somewhat, but no more so than in build 220...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah, indeed.

I generally like the idea of consistency checking though. It's just horribly executed right now, compared to other games solutions.

TF2's sv_pure setting is a perfect example. Doesn't even kick people, but forces the clients to load vanilla content if enabled.

Zeikko

There's a new version of NS2Stats which works even if your server admin steam admin account doesn't have acces to Steam Workshop, someone else in your server is already running Steam client, or you run into other issues when trying to download the mod files from Steam Workshop. You can find it at the same place as always: <a href="http://ns2stats.org/server/admin" target="_blank">http://ns2stats.org/server/admin</a>

Security

<!--quoteo(post=1986350:date=Oct 3 2012, 01:44 AM:name=Zeikko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zeikko @ Oct 3 2012, 01:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986350"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's a new version of NS2Stats which works even if your server admin steam admin account doesn't have acces to Steam Workshop, someone else in your server is already running Steam client, or you run into other issues when trying to download the mod files from Steam Workshop. You can find it at the same place as always: <a href="http://ns2stats.org/server/admin" target="_blank">http://ns2stats.org/server/admin</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I assume it's still not possible to modify mod files, without conflicting with consistency checking?
And DAK Admin mod has to be installed in order to run NS2Stats now?

Man. I just hope UWE gets this fixed.

Zeikko

No you can't modify them. I'm quite curious to know how would you like to modify them anyways? I think it's good that you can't modify them as it ensures the integrity of the data we gather.
But yeah I hope UWE can fix the isssues with the mods, however there are many problems caused by Steam Workshop itself that UWE can't fix i think.

Security

<!--quoteo(post=1986845:date=Oct 4 2012, 09:47 AM:name=Zeikko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zeikko @ Oct 4 2012, 09:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986845"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No you can't modify them. I'm quite curious to know how would you like to modify them anyways? I think it's good that you can't modify them as it ensures the integrity of the data we gather.
But yeah I hope UWE can fix the isssues with the mods, however there are many problems caused by Steam Workshop itself that UWE can't fix i think.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

There is exactly one thing. I usually change:

<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->Server.SendNetworkMessage(player, "Chat", BuildChatMessage(false, "NS2Stats.org", -1, teamNumber, kNeutralTeamType, token), true)<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
to:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->Server.SendNetworkMessage(player, "Chat", BuildChatMessage(false, "", -1, teamNumber, kNeutralTeamType, token), true)<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

Reason beeing that I feel that the advertisements for NS2Stats.org are a bit overused. It looks rather silly to have the URL in front of each line that NS2Stats spits out as well.
Everyone knows that it's NS2Stats anyways. Hell, I even put "NS2Stats" in my servers name when I have it running. ;]

Want to make me happy? Make this optional in the config file.

xDragon

I am curious about consistency checks and how the client loads. I would think you could exclude server.lua from the consistency check, and there is no reasonable way that the client could exploit that without modifying other files which would still cause them to fail the checks. Being able to modify that file would allow you to load any files you want to run server-side mods.

Whosat

<!--quoteo(post=1984698:date=Sep 30 2012, 01:21 AM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ Sep 30 2012, 01:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984698"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Putting lua files into the ignore list is not a good idea. Because of the nature of code, a lua file can include another lua file, which means by putting any lua file into the ignore list you have effectively whitelisted everything. So you may as well just remove everything from the "check" list.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=121063&view=findpost&p=1984698" target="_blank">Source</a>

Dghelneshi

@Whosat: The Server.lua file is never loaded on the client (obviously), so modding it can cause no harm whatsoever.

Zeikko

<!--quoteo(post=1986951:date=Oct 4 2012, 05:04 PM:name=Security)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Security @ Oct 4 2012, 05:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986951"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Want to make me happy? Make this optional in the config file.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's reasonable. I'll see what can be done.

Whosat

<!--quoteo(post=1986972:date=Oct 4 2012, 11:46 PM:name=Dghelneshi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dghelneshi @ Oct 4 2012, 11:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986972"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@Whosat: The Server.lua file is never loaded on the client (obviously), so modding it can cause no harm whatsoever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah.. That makes sense! Thanks!

Security

<!--quoteo(post=1986980:date=Oct 4 2012, 06:06 PM:name=Zeikko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zeikko @ Oct 4 2012, 06:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1986980"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's reasonable. I'll see what can be done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Thanks, I'd appreciate it. :]

Zeikko

<!--quoteo(post=1989871:date=Oct 11 2012, 10:49 PM:name=Security)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Security @ Oct 11 2012, 10:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1989871"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks, I'd appreciate it. :]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It has been implemented and is now available in the latest release of NS2Stats

<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=NS2Stats 0.32beta changelog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2Stats 0.32beta changelog)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- NS2Stats.org chat message sayer is now customizable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

NS2Stats should also work fine with the consistency checking, steam workshop etc. Also the installation procedure is much simpler now than in the previous builds.

Server admins can find the installation instructions by <a href="http://www.ns2stats.org/site/steamlogin" target="_blank">logging in to ns2stats.org</a>, clicking "My Account" and then "My Servers".