FOV in NS2

ScardyBobScardyBob ScardyBob Join Date: 2009-11-25 Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
in NS2 General Discussion
Since Field of View (FOV) has come up quite a bit in discussion recently, I thought I'd make a thread about what it is, what are the issues with it, and how it works in NS2.

<u><b><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->What is FOV?<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b></u>
I'll let the <a href="https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Field_of_View" target="_blank">good folks at Valve</a> explain this one:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The player's FOV represents the Horizontal Angular Field of View, determining the angle of a geometrical viewwedge called a Frustum, whose rectangular cross-section corresponds to the player's rectangular screen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A more in-depth description of FOV is given in these good videos by the FZD School of Design:
<a href="http://youtu.be/blZUao2jTGA" target="_blank">Video Part 1</a>
<a href="http://youtu.be/S1XsPYPGcl0" target="_blank">Video Part 2</a>

<u><b><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Getting sick from improper FOV<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b></u>
Does an improper FOV make people sick? Most of the evidence I've found is anecdotal such as <a href="https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Field_of_View" target="_blank">Valve's description</a>, <a href="http://ferv0r.wordpress.com/2010/07/03/inadequate-field-of-view-fov-might-cause-virtual-motion-sickness/" target="_blank">ferv0r's blog</a>, or <a href="http://www.hitl.washington.edu/publications/r-96-3/" target="_blank">this article</a>.

As best as I can tell, the connection between FOV and cybersickness/motion sickness/simulator sickness is unclear. For example, there are quite a few game elements that can make people feel sick (as shown by this <a href="http://www.loonygames.com/content/1.2/feat/" target="_blank">looneygames article</a> or this <a href="http://www.cs.brown.edu/~jjl/pubs/cybersick.pdf" target="_blank">article by LaViola Jr</a>). The other examples I've found don't give a clear picture either (see <a href="http://www-ieem.ust.hk/dfaculty/so/pdf/Pages89-95-VIMS2007.pdf" target="_blank">here</a> or <a href="http://144.206.159.178/ft/CONF/16414819/16414841.pdf" target="_blank">here</a>).

<u><b><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->How FOV works in NS2<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b></u>
B221 included an FOV Adjustment slider bar that allows you to increase your FOV by up to 20 from the default, which are different for each class:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Default/Marine= 90
Embryo = 100
Skulk = 105
Gorge = 95
Lerk = 100
Fade = 90
Onos = 90
Exo = 95<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So how do different FOVs actually look in NS2. Here are NS2 screenshots with FOVs between 30 and 175:
<a href="http://imgur.com/M8pWE" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/M8pWEl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

And here is a video showing the same:
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/q0F-RhbVECk"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/q0F-RhbVECk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>

As many people know, higher FOV can give you an advantage because you can see more of the area around you. However, you start to get diminishing returns as the edges of your screen become more distorted. In NS2, I'd say that point starts at around a FOV of 135.

<u><b><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->What should I set my FOV at?<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b></u>
Unless you get sick playing NS2, I'd keep it at the default. However, as the FZD School of Design videos say, comfortable FOV is function of monitor size and viewing distance. <a href="https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Field_of_View" target="_blank">Valve</a> suggests the following equation to related FOV to viewing distance and screen size for larger screens (which I've rearranged to solve for FOV):
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->FOV = 2*arctan(Screen Width/(2*Viewing Distance))<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
Here is the equation for some common 16:9 monitor sizes:
<a href="http://imgur.com/CxmvK" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/CxmvKl.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

The file with the calculations is <a href="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5490563/FoV%20Estimation.xlsx" target="_blank">here</a>. I don't necessarily agree with this result, I think the best FOV is probably double that number, but it gives you an idea of how the relationship between FOV and screen size/viewer distance should look like.
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Comments

  • salorsalor Join Date: 2004-02-21 Member: 26771Members
    edited September 2012
    Well lets be honest here, motion sickeness or whatever aside...there is clearly an <b>advantage of having 120 FOV then 30 FOV.</b>

    How could anyone not see that? Is it cheating? i dont know, you guys tell me...but <b>THERE IS CLEARLY AN ADVANTAGE THERE!</b>
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  • DghelneshiDghelneshi Aims to surpass Fana in post edits. Join Date: 2011-11-01 Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited September 2012
    You might want to explain that 16:9 screens get more FoV than the default value. Your screenshots also seem off, e.g. the 30° FoV picture is actually more due to 16:9 expansion.

    The function Valve posted there is a theoretical function of optical correctness, not necessarily a recommendation for actual FoV. The graph you posted recommends something like 35 - 55 degrees FoV for me, which is utterly ridiculous.
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  • WilsonWilson Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 72867Members
    I just wish there was a console command to change the viewmodel FOV as well. I know there is a problem with the onos viewmodel if you increase the fov (there is a small gap at the bottom since the viewmodel is not big enough) but apart from that all the others look fine. The guns look so chunky to me at the default. It doesn't give you any advantage, it's just what I prefer.

    Here is an example:

    Default 4:3 FOV, Default viewmodel FOV:

    <img src="http://i.imgur.com/Jk4oVl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />


    Default 16:9 FOV with adjusted viewmodel:

    <img src="http://i.imgur.com/dhRPKl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
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  • MaxMax Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment Join Date: 2002-03-15 Member: 318Super Administrators, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    That equation is telling you what your field of view would be if you were looking through a window the size of your monitor. I don't think that's really what the purpose of the field of view in a first person game is though. In "real life" your eyes have a huge FOV, it's almost 180 degrees. If you adopt the model that screen is a "window into the world" you don't feel like you have enough peripheral vision.
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  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
    tbh though people saying that 120 is an advantage over 30 - for the lmg and shotgun yes

    but a narrow FoV of 30 would be an advantage when you use the pistol, since you have a better view of the distance - basically a zoom.

    and I wonder if people are already using a script to automatically zoom in when they pull out the pistol.


    personally I like to play with 90 - 100 on first person shooters, and about 110-120 on thirdperson games. Anything less makes it hard to judge distance, so jumping accurately or even walking without bumping into things is awkward.
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  • NeoRussiaNeoRussia Join Date: 2012-08-04 Member: 154743Members
    glad they added this, the 30fps I get usually causes a lot of eyestrain but the natural fov is relaxing. I miss the features that TFC had with you being able to change your viewmodel texture to be translucent. Does Spark even support texture transparency?
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  • DaphistoDaphisto Hive Janitor Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8917Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I changed the FOV slider to max out my FOV and now I am doing way better as a skulk. The action feels less in-yo-face.
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  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1984865:date=Sep 29 2012, 05:13 PM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ Sep 29 2012, 05:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984865"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That equation is telling you what your field of view would be if you were looking through a window the size of your monitor. I don't think that's really what the purpose of the field of view in a first person game is though. In "real life" your eyes have a huge FOV, it's almost 180 degrees. If you adopt the model that screen is a "window into the world" you don't feel like you have enough peripheral vision.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think the idea is that your eyes naturally want to see the game world as if looking through a window, and that a distortion of that FoV doesn't feel right and can be disorienting to some people. No game ever gives you a "real life" FoV.
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  • Salraine_ChiSalraine_Chi Join Date: 2011-07-03 Member: 107669Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I'm still getting a headache with the slider all the way down.

    As I posted in another thread, I always used to set mine to 1.8 in the LUA file which lessened the fish eye effect, stopped me feeling ill and gave me less on the screen so deffo not an advantage. I think this is about 70-80 FOV going off the fact the default is 90 when the slider is furthest to the left.

    Any chance of being able to lower the FOV further in the next build please? I am finding it hard to play as it is.

    Sal
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  • NeoRussiaNeoRussia Join Date: 2012-08-04 Member: 154743Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1984904:date=Sep 29 2012, 08:04 PM:name=Salraine_Chi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Salraine_Chi @ Sep 29 2012, 08:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984904"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm still getting a headache with the slider all the way down.

    As I posted in another thread, I always used to set mine to 1.8 in the LUA file which lessened the fish eye effect, stopped me feeling ill and gave me less on the screen so deffo not an advantage. I think this is about 70-80 FOV going off the fact the default is 90 when the slider is furthest to the left.

    Any chance of being able to lower the FOV further in the next build please? I am finding it hard to play as it is.

    Sal<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    you feel ill when your fov is lower, not when it's higher....
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  • DghelneshiDghelneshi Aims to surpass Fana in post edits. Join Date: 2011-11-01 Member: 130634Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1984910:date=Sep 30 2012, 02:22 AM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Sep 30 2012, 02:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984910"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you feel ill when your fov is lower, not when it's higher....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Don't tell others how they are supposed to feel. Both affects every individual person differently.
    I personally get completely disoriented up to the point of not being able to play at all with low or even medium FoVs depending on the overall speed of the game. His perception of the virtual world is apparently different and he feels sick from distortion on high FoV. Both points are entirely valid.
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  • Salraine_ChiSalraine_Chi Join Date: 2011-07-03 Member: 107669Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1984910:date=Sep 30 2012, 12:22 AM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Sep 30 2012, 12:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984910"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you feel ill when your fov is lower, not when it's higher....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    We are all different. After 15 years of PC gaming I know what affects me....not you. I feel ill with the FOV high. When I lower it I'm fine.

    Sal
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  • countbasiecountbasie Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Members
    edited September 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1984910:date=Sep 30 2012, 12:22 AM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Sep 30 2012, 12:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984910"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you feel ill when your fov is lower, not when it's higher....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No. Maybe both. But please look at the screens from the OP. You say that 175 is more normal to you than 30?

    The problem with FOV is that some people say they get sick when it's too low. So they take the advantage of a higher FOV. If I want to keep up with them, I have to get sick from the FOV that is too high for me.

    Difficult question.

    EDIT: some numbers at the FOV slider would be cool.
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  • .ADHd.ADHd Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146565Members
    edited September 2012
    I haven't loaded up the build yet, but please for the love of God tell me you can set your FOV higher than what is was in last build. 90 is simply not acceptable for this type of game... and I cried when FOV was locked server side back in the 200's

    EDIT: Haha loaded up the build, thank you sooooooo much for this change.
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  • countbasiecountbasie Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1984926:date=Sep 30 2012, 01:04 AM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ Sep 30 2012, 01:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984926"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->please for the love of God tell me you can set your FOV higher than what is was in last build.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    God loves you.
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  • rhombusrhombus Lerk Queen Join Date: 2011-06-23 Member: 106055Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited September 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1984926:date=Sep 29 2012, 09:04 PM:name=.ADHd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (.ADHd @ Sep 29 2012, 09:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984926"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I haven't loaded up the build yet, but please for the love of God tell me you can set your FOV higher than what is was in last build. 90 is simply not acceptable for this type of game... and I cried when FOV was locked server side back in the 200's<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    How about loading up the build first before posting.. If you read Scardy's post it says:

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->B221 included an FOV Adjustment slider bar that allows you to increase your FOV by up to 20 from the default, which are different for each class<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    All the FOV's in the game are 90 or higher so take those values and add a maximum of 20 onto them.
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  • OrzOrz Join Date: 2010-03-24 Member: 71069Members
    I'd just like to add that it would be really good if there was some numbers to go along with the FOV slider, and not just a numberless slider.
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  • FluffyMFluffyM Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75064Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1984991:date=Sep 30 2012, 07:15 AM:name=Orz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Orz @ Sep 30 2012, 07:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984991"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd just like to add that it would be really good if there was some numbers to go along with the FOV slider, and not just a numberless slider.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This, please add numbers from 1-20 or whatever, useless the way it is.
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  • NominousNominous Baltimore, MD Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146518Members
    edited September 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1984860:date=Sep 29 2012, 06:00 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Sep 29 2012, 06:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984860"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just wish there was a console command to change the viewmodel FOV as well. I know there is a problem with the onos viewmodel if you increase the fov (there is a small gap at the bottom since the viewmodel is not big enough) but apart from that all the others look fine. The guns look so chunky to me at the default. It doesn't give you any advantage, it's just what I prefer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'd actually like an option to turn off viewmodels completely like in TF2. Besides weapons, it would also fully restore peripheral vision for aliens and the Exo. I don't know whether the alien teeth and Exo HUD can be considered a hidden nerf that's part of the design philosophy, though. Plus there would be the issue of no ammo counters for marine weapons. I guess this is a job left to modders. :D
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=1985173:date=Sep 30 2012, 05:19 PM:name=Karnaj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Karnaj @ Sep 30 2012, 05:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1985173"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know whether the alien teeth and Exo HUD can be considered a hidden nerf that's part of the design philosophy, though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The Skulk Teeth and EXO HuD are a nerf that's part of the design philosophy ;)
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  • Zomb3hZomb3h Join Date: 2011-01-27 Member: 79241Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I get paranoid with FOV on this game simply because it gives a false sense of distance from the enemy.

    I'm surprised I'm using default FOV with this game after whining about it lacking in NS1.
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  • YMICrazyYMICrazy Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165986Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1984860:date=Sep 29 2012, 05:00 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Sep 29 2012, 05:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984860"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just wish there was a console command to change the viewmodel FOV as well.

    Default 16:9 FOV with adjusted viewmodel:

    <img src="http://i.imgur.com/dhRPKl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    There still is not a way to adjust viewmodel right? Man I always preferred seeing arms on my viewmodels
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  • GlissGliss Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14800Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester
    <!--quoteo(post=1984844:date=Sep 29 2012, 01:47 PM:name=salor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (salor @ Sep 29 2012, 01:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984844"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well lets be honest here, motion sickeness or whatever aside...there is clearly an <b>advantage of having 120 FOV then 30 FOV.</b>

    How could anyone not see that? Is it cheating? i dont know, you guys tell me...but <b>THERE IS CLEARLY AN ADVANTAGE THERE!</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    this has come up over and over again in the Quake community, it's just personal preference (to a certain extent, obviously 20 FOV is useless against 120). most Quake pros using FOV of 103.5 which is quite close to default, despite it being adjustable up to 130 FOV.

    would like to see an option like in TF2 with fov_desired and viewmodel_fov as well.
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  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    With insanely high FOV, you trade visibility for smaller targets to shoot at.

    That said, I don't mind a range anywhere between 90-120, any less and I feel queasy. (There are way too many games out there with 75 FOV by default).
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  • AxehiltAxehilt Join Date: 2003-09-12 Member: 20796Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1984844:date=Sep 29 2012, 04:47 PM:name=salor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (salor @ Sep 29 2012, 04:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1984844"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well lets be honest here, motion sickeness or whatever aside...there is clearly an <b>advantage of having 120 FOV then 30 FOV.</b>

    How could anyone not see that? Is it cheating? i dont know, you guys tell me...but <b>THERE IS CLEARLY AN ADVANTAGE THERE!</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah, which is why configurable FoV is always a design mistake in games. Especially if the default isn't max.

    NS2 should've used a static FoV, or at most should've set it per-species.
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  • MrRadicalEdMrRadicalEd Turrent Master Join Date: 2004-08-13 Member: 30601Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2056712:date=Jan 5 2013, 10:05 PM:name=Axehilt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Axehilt @ Jan 5 2013, 10:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2056712"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, which is why configurable FoV is always a design mistake in games. Especially if the default isn't max.

    NS2 should've used a static FoV, or at most should've set it per-species.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    and for that reason I always end up changing my mouse sensitivity between marines and aliens because[for me] the fov determines my mouse settings.
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  • WakeWake Join Date: 2003-03-05 Member: 14351Members, Constellation
    Thanks for the video.

    Physical FOV gets lower as speed increase.

    Whle a higher FOV is an advantage in a static image, it is not so evident when you move.

    I think sickness starts when there is too much difference between your screen FOV and your physical FOV.
    What you see is not what you are supposed to as there is no peripheral vision on a screen.
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  • ExoskelettExoskelett Join Date: 2012-12-18 Member: 175509Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I feel at a high value, as I would ever go through a long tunnel - like I was stoned
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  • RegnarebRegnareb Join Date: 2007-08-26 Member: 62008Members, NS2 Playtester
    <!--quoteo(post=2056712:date=Jan 6 2013, 03:05 AM:name=Axehilt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Axehilt @ Jan 6 2013, 03:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2056712"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, which is why configurable FoV is always a design mistake in games. Especially if the default isn't max.

    NS2 should've used a static FoV, or at most should've set it per-species.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The FoV should ALWAYS be configurable (to some extent), not everybody play with the same setup, not everybody have the same sensibility to motion sickness. It's a basic feature every game should have and need to have, like configuring graphics settings or binds or mouse.

    <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/blZUao2jTGA"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/blZUao2jTGA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>

    This is why you need a configurable FoV, generally high, and why it can be a problem regarding motion sickness when set too low.
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