Adrenaline

Vladimir Van Vodka

I was just thinking


Originally adrenaline when applied; used to be:

<!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->200% regeneration<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> and 100% capacity
(100% meaning its <i>unchanged</i>)

It was technically overpowered since you could keep sieging continuously at <i>no downtime</i>, I even found myself gassing an entire base as a lerk or bilebombing as gorge virtually forever, killing all the marines/structures at little to no effort (not sure if this is the real or sole reason for it.)


So naturally, UWE tries a fix:
Currently, it's implemented as:

100% regeneration and <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->200% capacity<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

<b>Which in my honest opinion, is not an upgrade; as it feels sluggish as hell to try and regenerate because of it being <i>just</i> a larger capacity, it's not really an upgrade: since the time spent regenerating your adrenaline is directly proportionate to your larger capacity, you might be able to stay in combat twice as long, but you are out of combat twice as long also...</b>


So I thought of an intermediate
<i>(horrendously simple change, actually.)</i>

<!--coloro:#008000--><span style="color:#008000"><!--/coloro-->~ 150% regeneration and 150% capacity<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

Neither buff being too powerful (or atleast I hope) the regeneration and the capacity is buffed a fair amount, allowing you to stay in combat longer and get back in quicker; while not allowing sustained spam or whatever its called, you would still need to manage your energy, altho not as often as without.

If it's proven too powerful both or a single variable could be lowered:

Ex:
<!--coloro:#008000--><span style="color:#008000"><!--/coloro-->~ 133% regeneration and 133% capacity<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

People seem to like this iteration the most, so I quoted it:

<!--quoteo(post=1990963:date=Oct 14 2012, 12:05 AM:name=Vladimir Van Vodka)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vladimir Van Vodka @ Oct 14 2012, 12:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990963"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->150% regen and 150% capacity does exactly that; if both regeneration and capacity are buffed the same percentage, then your adrenaline circle will refill at exactly the same speed, but it would just seem that your abilities cost less... So in fact, you could reach the exact same effect if adrenaline directly lowered the cost of abilities instead, actually.
maybe you could switch things up a bit:

<!--coloro:#9ACD32--><span style="color:#9ACD32"><!--/coloro--><b><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->135% Regeneration and 165% capacity<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

This would make it so it would appear that you regenerate adrenaline slower, but in fact, you do faster, it's just that your capacity is buffed more then your regeneration <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(notice how it should balance at a sum of 200%, anything higher is op for sure.)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



Thoughts?

maD maX

+1

Not the first to suggest but I will continue to support anyone who thinks there needs to be c compromise on this issue. By doubling reservoir you double the down time to recharge....

Find a compromise where time from 0 energy to full energy is the same before and after upgrade with a larger resivior... currently the only advantage is an additional 3-4 swipes or 1-2 leaps before you have to run... And god forbide your a adrenalin fade who runs out of energy (turns out a rine can sprint faster then you can intermittently blink and walk away with current regen time)

Vladimir Van Vodka

<!--quoteo(post=1990956:date=Oct 14 2012, 12:45 AM:name=maD maX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (maD maX @ Oct 14 2012, 12:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990956"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[...]

<b>Find a compromise where time from 0 energy to full energy is the same before and after upgrade with a larger reservoir... </b> currently the only advantage is an additional 3-4 swipes or 1-2 leaps before you have to run... And god forbide your a adrenalin fade who runs out of energy (turns out a rine can sprint faster then you can intermittently blink and walk away with current regen time)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

150% regen and 150% capacity does exactly that; if both regeneration and capacity are buffed the same percentage, then your adrenaline circle will refill at exactly the same speed, but it would just seem that your abilities cost less... So in fact, you could reach the exact same effect if adrenaline directly lowered the cost of abilities instead, actually.
maybe you could switch things up a bit:

<!--coloro:#9ACD32--><span style="color:#9ACD32"><!--/coloro-->135% Regeneration and 165% capacity<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

This would make it so it would appear that you regenerate adrenaline slower, but in fact, you do faster, it's just that your capacity is buffed more then your regeneration <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(notice how it should balance at a sum of 200%, anything higher is op for sure.)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

Cico

+1
something like 150 / 150 % might be good

Reubot

+1 from me too.

There's already enough waiting when playing aliens: waiting in vents, waiting for respawn, waiting for upgrades and gestation etc. I won't pull any figures from my ass because the satisfactory ratio will only be found by empirical testing, but there should definitely be an increase made to the regeneration rate with the upgrade.

Xarius

Yea, an intermediate approach would be far more preferable to the current one.

TimMc

<!--quoteo(post=1990963:date=Oct 13 2012, 03:35 PM:name=Vladimir Van Vodka)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vladimir Van Vodka @ Oct 13 2012, 03:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990963"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->maybe you could switch things up a bit:

<!--coloro:#9ACD32--><span style="color:#9ACD32"><!--/coloro-->135% Regeneration and 165% capacity<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I would prefer this. It allows permanent healspray and other very basic abilities, but leaves the powerful abilities requiring the shift structures for support.

AurOn2

<!--quoteo(post=1991810:date=Oct 16 2012, 04:03 AM:name=TimMc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimMc @ Oct 16 2012, 04:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1991810"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would prefer this. It allows permanent healspray and other very basic abilities, but leaves the powerful abilities requiring the shift structures for support.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same.
+1
one of the thousands of things i would like uwe to start playing with before release.

ItAx

I really hated the last adrenaline patch (obviously because i couldn't blink across whole map lol) and I agree that It should be something like 135% regen and 165% capacity.
Before that patch kharaa commanders rarely used shifts to provide fades or everyone else with energy. Now they build them in every important point, so shift became more usefull.

AurOn2

A bit too much useful in comparison to the other choices avaliable. even crags (given the expense you have to go to just to make a useful crag base. one shift is like 4 crags. so thats 10-40 res comparison rate. wut)
Anyway for the OP.
I'll try to get Twilightblue to put it in his balance mod, and we'll see how it plays out that way. if uwe is blind at first, prove that it works!
My new motto, putting that in my sig. XD

ItAx

<!--quoteo(post=1993947:date=Oct 20 2012, 02:47 AM:name=AuroN2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AuroN2 @ Oct 20 2012, 02:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993947"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A bit too much useful in comparison to the other choices avaliable. even crags (given the expense you have to go to just to make a useful crag base. one shift is like 4 crags. so thats 10-40 res comparison rate. wut)
Anyway for the OP.
...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Well the marines have only armory which costs like 10 or 15 res and provides marines with ammo, hp and armor. So that can also be called too useful :)

Balmark

thumbs up

HeatSurge

+1

Tweaking the percentage is a good idea imo. 110/190, 120/180, 130/170... Something that doesn't make energy management non-existent but doesn't require you to wait for what seems like a full minute before your energy recharges without a shift.

1dominator1

Sure its an upgrade, you now have twice the resources to win whatever battle you are engaged in. Not to mention shifts.
Also do not forget that shifts can spawn eggs, which is mad useful.

Imbalanxd

The problem I see with the current adrenaline is not that it takes a long time to regenerate all that energy in general, but rather that players will typically spend their time looking at a wall or something while they wait. The primary problem behind the 200% regen version of adrenaline was that it by and large removed any notion of energy management in combat. However outside of combat it worked well to reduce the downtime people spent essentially doing nothing while waiting to be able to reenter combat. Thus I propose a dynamic system with a regeneration rate dependent on the last time you were "in combat". Its quite a long winded system, but essentially it boils down to several simple points.
<ol type='1'><li>A regeneration rate that is <b>slower </b>than the current rate for the first 2 seconds after using an offensive ability (bite, spit, swipe, *blink* etc).</li><li>A regeneration rate that is equal to the current rate once 2 seconds have passed since the last offensive attack.</li><li>A regeneration rate that quickly surpasses the current rate the longer you do not use an offensive ability.</li></ol>

This system would always be active, and would not only apply to aliens with adrenaline. It may sound like a nerf at first glance, but here are the preliminary numbers to show that it doesn't have to be.

<!--quoteo(post=1988090:date=Oct 7 2012, 11:48 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Oct 7 2012, 11:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1988090"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With such a system in place, regenerating from zero to full energy would take approximately 8.5 seconds, <b>provided absolutely no offensive abilities were used during this time</b>. Regenerating from zero to full energy with adrenaline would take approximately 14 seconds. 60% longer than it does without adrenaline, rather than 100% longer. Also 15% and 30% shorter respectively than their current regeneration times, once again, provided the use of no offensive abilities.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121710" target="_blank">link if you care</a><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

Vladimir Van Vodka

I hope they change adrenaline to make bilebomb viable again, the only viable siege mechanic aliens have now is onos....
we also need something to adress GL spam, but that's a whole other matter.