Possible to create outdoor maps?
<div class="IPBDescription">Maybe like Mars like maps the aliens motherland :)</div>I am thinking in jumping in to Spark Editor and help create more maps. My ideas very from Outdoors Mars like planets to both Outdoors and Indoors maps. And, also I was thinking of starting to create bigger maps for 20 vs 20 games. Does spark have outdoor images? Can I add my own graphical image and imported to Spark? or is it locked down?
Here is a example:
<img src="http://alien-ufo-research.com/news/2010/moon-station.JPG" border="0" class="linked-image" />
For the 20vs20 maps, I was thinking Indoor building plus outdoors in one map. This will be a big map, here is a example:
<img src="http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/337666/530wm/S6100076-Artwork_of_a_space_colony_on_the_surface_of_Mars-SPL.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Here is a example:
<img src="http://alien-ufo-research.com/news/2010/moon-station.JPG" border="0" class="linked-image" />
For the 20vs20 maps, I was thinking Indoor building plus outdoors in one map. This will be a big map, here is a example:
<img src="http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/337666/530wm/S6100076-Artwork_of_a_space_colony_on_the_surface_of_Mars-SPL.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Comments
Here is a example:
<img src="http://alien-ufo-research.com/news/2010/moon-station.JPG" border="0" class="linked-image" />
For the 20vs20 maps, I was thinking Indoor building plus outdoors in one map. This will be a big map, here is a example:
<img src="http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/337666/530wm/S6100076-Artwork_of_a_space_colony_on_the_surface_of_Mars-SPL.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You could probably use the ns2_eclipse background/skybox its looks a little bit martian, but you can make your own :)
There are plenty of rock/cave style models/props you could take advantage of, you could lie some of them sideways to create a nice ground. And also in spark you can subdivide the faces into a mesh that you could manipulate to create nice natural looking sand dunes etc. (have a look at the central drilling room in ns2_mineshaft - open it in the editor, that will give you some ideas of what is achievable)
You will have to be clever with the way you layout your map though, so you can get the illusion of large open spaces without showing too much at once so that it engine doesn't have to render a huge area all at once. For example there are limits to how far into the distance you can see models and places and entities (1052 units i think) which is a pretty long anyway.
In terms of gameplay there is one thing that will be tricky, and that is how will you stop aliens (and perhaps even jetpackers) from flying too high or out of the map? you can create invisible walls like in ns2_summit crevice room, and ns2_docking landingpad area i guess.
It would be pretty cool to see a semi outdoor map where aliens start in a rocky /sandy area outside-ish, and marines start inside an underground base with little pillboxes to shootout from, and the aliens have to infest their way into the underground marine base.
It would play very differently to the normal ns2 style, but thats not necessary a bad thing :)
Edit: i feel like this would be a very cool scenario if it was possible to create destructable objects (i guess you could use weldable doors, and even block some things with an armory [as a legitimate strategy in this game mode]
hmm this could be really nice if done right :)
I've posted a "outdoor mapping guideline" in the NS forums a very long time ago that has some ideas of how to make it work though...
I believe it is 1578 actually.
I think you will really struggle with this due to the hard limit on draw distance.
To show my point clearly I have a picture.
<img src="http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q542/PsympleJester/FinalCourner_zpsd1a79a12.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
If you look at the far wall in this image (behind the hives) that is almost exactly 1578 and thus NO length
in your entire map can be longer than this otherwise player/structures will clip in and out of your view.
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If there was a way to get around this then I would say good luck to you sir and I applaud your ambition.
A map I remember in NS1 that was outside was HORRIBLY unbalanced late game (even with ns1's much better jetpacks)
and thus I think you will also really struggle with attempting to make it balanced.
I am sorry if all this feedback seems negative I am not trying to shoot down your ambitions.
I have come up with three ideas for outdoor maps and will be making
some blockouts of them today.
We can do outdoor maps, hell balance will still be horrible, but we can
make them. I have come up with 3 methods of making them work and
will be implementing them heavily in these 3 different maps.
Smoke, yes... and lots of it.
Folliage, yes and LOTS OF IT.
Arenas making it appear to be outside but having the areas all divided into arenas where
the line of sight cant be larger than draw distance.
NS2 is not suited for outdoor maps, period? Foilage does not truly block your vision so it will still look VERY ackward from a long range. Lot's of mist is just extremely silly, and the required polygons to make something like that visually believable is just not gonna cut it on this engine!
If this post sounds negative, I'm not sorry, because I am being negative on this.
I hope you get my message, I'd hate to see you waste your time.
/much love.
NS2 is not suited for outdoor maps, period? Foilage does not truly block your vision so it will still look VERY ackward from a long range. Lot's of mist is just extremely silly, and the required polygons to make something like that visually believable is just not gonna cut it on this engine!
If this post sounds negative, I'm not sorry, because I am being negative on this.
I hope you get my message, I'd hate to see you waste your time.
/much love.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you pretty much just chop the ceilings off ns2_mineshaft, and get some sunlight in there with a nice sky, you have yourself an outdoor map - and then of course there are areas like crevice in ns2_summit.
its definitely double and people will play it because you see this idea/request all the time. hey its custom map, it doesn't have to be competitively balanced to be fun.
people like variety :)
NS2 is not suited for outdoor maps, period? Foilage does not truly block your vision so it will still look VERY ackward from a long range. Lot's of mist is just extremely silly, and the required polygons to make something like that visually believable is just not gonna cut it on this engine!
If this post sounds negative, I'm not sorry, because I am being negative on this.
I hope you get my message, I'd hate to see you waste your time.
/much love.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1994249:date=Oct 20 2012, 11:00 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Oct 20 2012, 11:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1994249"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe there is your answer.
My other reason for doing this is that i have to deal with some very large rooms in my own mapping project and have yet to
decide how to do it. Thus this is a good learning experience: Already the smoke/particle idea is a write off... (I may come back to it later).
Foliage worked quite well but got rather repetitive and I ended up with (for balance reasons) the majority of the map being elsewhere.
I will definitely finish the foliage one its just too ... amazing... not to finish! :)
I am experimenting with the arenas one but I am getting a little demotivated by the amount of detail I will have to put in that is totally superfluous
It is LITRALLY designed to have the most open space and thus crazy surface area. Also I have no frikken idea what the game play will be like...
I wont be putting ANY details in it for a while I don't think...
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As to the OP, it can be done but you have to design your map to "block of" lines of sight and it feels more like a "very large sewer" than an "out door map"
I suppose you could knock up a light array using spot lights.
I will give it a shot and try to create an outdoor map, that looks good and plays nicely!
Hopefully I will get some advice when I meet problems.
As far as your thoughts are going (line of sight etc.) I will try to avoid this by using blockers and layouting the map accordingly.
For the light, I have no idea. Time will tell I guess. :D
Moar when I actually start to build the map.
so long
We still need proper texture tools though, I hate the lines we see when doing this. We definately need somekind of "align texture", "blending" and "treat multiple faces as one" tools to make it look good.
Also, <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=62266" target="_blank">Ns Outdoor Mapping Guidelines/rules</a> :P
On topic: There is an abundance of rocky props in NS2 that goes well with caves and outdoor design. For those who don't like the displacement tool, yay to copy-paste and alt+rotate ;)
I put so many "plant" props in my engine earlier I destroyed my computer...
Literally I put over 1000 itterations of 3 plant props into my map (its a bio dome, that was only 1 tree) and my computer started having a heart attack...
Anyone have ideas for/want to try designing an outdoor map?
Unless I'm wrong, you can already treat multiple faces as one, and align textures. Just don't use invisible walls, terrible way of blocking things off in games, lazy way to do it.
I really wouldn't recommend anyone actually tries to make a outdoors map it'll just be a complete pain to balance and optimize.
Sadly I think its the wrong game and the wrong engine for such projects.
Yea! You could call it Biodome. Screw that other Biodome, it's not even a dome!!!
That only works with planar faces, not displaced subdivisions
Or a boring invisible ceiling like de_dust in CS 1.6 . Prevent jetpacks abuse.
ns2 colony as howser said is aslo a mix of an indoors / outdoors map
ns2 agora was an attempt at creating an outdoors map
From what I have learnt from doing kodiak I honestly do not think it would be possible to create a good true outdoors map but having said that I am allways up for a challenge ( I do have an idea that MIGHT work) but its not something I am willing to do alone as I got 2 projects on the go atm !