<!--quoteo(post=1993935:date=Oct 19 2012, 04:08 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Oct 19 2012, 04:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993935"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree with this 100%, we will see how it works, and a worst case scenario would simply be reducing its damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, worst case scenario is that it doesn't fix the problem, which is that skulk play is alienating (heh) newbies. There is literally no time for another full patch after 224. 221 skulks were far from the end of the world and I highly recommend that they are returned to until features like glancing blows can be actually tested. Give it the month of November. We'll see though.
I actually liking the glancing bite. At first I may have been a little wary of it but it might really be a good idea.
It keeps aliens in the game while still rewarding precision.
It greatly benefits skulk rushes, as the likelihood of SOME kind of damage being done is a lot higher, instead of a bunch of guys nipping at the marines praying to land a bite.
I think this change might be okay but only if the full-damage bite cone is kept the way the vanilla bite is now (small). Glancing bite should only be kept to increase alien effectiveness as close range on the heels of an enemy. If it becomes a problem, maybe make glance bite cone smaller or reduce the damage to 15. It might not be a bad idea either to balance out this change with a SLIGHT reduction in range to bite, just because this increases combat effectiveness at close range so much.
one thing that is interesting about glancing bite, is that it makes it so you can kill an A0 marine with 2 bites, and one glancing bite, but to kill an A1 marine, you need 3 good bites.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
I admit I was weary too at first.. They snuck it in one of the builds this week as something like "adjusted melee width and height" and I was immediately worried about the ease in which I could bite marines.. Until I noticed that I wasn't killing them as quickly. Non frustrating game play that wasn't OP?? It felt "right", with a low skill entrance requirement that pays off as you get good at it... exactly what every inch of this game should aim for.
am i the only one that thinks a 25 dmg glancing blow is too low ?
The 221 bite cone was hardly game breaking, wouldnt it make more sense for the glancing blow (that im assuming uses the 221 bite cone), to do 50dmg and the new accurate bite cone for 223, do 25 bonus damage ?
with 50 dmg glancing blow ... a good skulk could still kill a lvl 0 marine with 2 good bites and a parasite a bad skulk would take 3 glancing bites and a parasite or 1 good bite and a 2 glancing bites
however with a glancing blow of 25 ... a bad skulk (assuming all glancing blows) would take 7 bites ???? and if that bad skulk got in 1 good bite ... thats still 5 bites ...
This problem will become more obvious as marines get armor upgrades :/
<!--quoteo(post=1993954:date=Oct 19 2012, 05:04 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Oct 19 2012, 05:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993954"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->psst.. pirate.. there's more than 2 cones/values. :-D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well based on what you said im assuming something like this (maybe more detailed if there are even more cones)
3 cones register a hit doing 75 dmg 2 cones register a hit doing 50 dmg (slight miss) 1 cone registers a hit doing 25 damage (glancing)
i think i prefer this way, however its still a nerf to skulks as they are no more effective than they were in 221. If combined with better movement mechanics (walljump and ceiling drop are ok... but theres still something missing :/ ), then i think the skulk may be in a very good place :>
<!--quoteo(post=1993933:date=Oct 19 2012, 07:03 PM:name=6john)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (6john @ Oct 19 2012, 07:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993933"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm a big fan of glancing bite, i've been wanting it for a while. As an alien it is very frustrating to bite at a marine, see the jaws clamp down on the leg, but because the crosshair wasn't spot on I get no hit. If it's frustrating for someone who plays consistently, it will be extremely frustrating for a new player. Glancing bite lines up with the 'easy to learn, difficult to master' mentality, as it gives small reward for a poorly aimed bite, but great reward for a greatly aimed bite.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See thats what reason tells you, however I bet what the devs are gonna do is make the current hitbox glancing and make the proper hitbox even smaller.
<!--quoteo(post=1993973:date=Oct 20 2012, 01:24 AM:name=Xarius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xarius @ Oct 20 2012, 01:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993973"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope that doesn't mean they made the 75 dmg cone smaller<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, we did not make it smaller. The 75 damage cone is equal to the current 223 damage cone.
<!--quoteo(post=1993742:date=Oct 19 2012, 10:18 AM:name=Typhon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Typhon @ Oct 19 2012, 10:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993742"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maintenance and ball court rts have been collapsed into one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1993954:date=Oct 20 2012, 10:04 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Oct 20 2012, 10:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993954"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->psst.. pirate.. there's more than 2 cones/values. :-D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are we able to know how many hitboxes? (if you guys cant say then can they please put in release notes for patch?)
Would also be interested to know if they simply added additional boxes to cover wider area or if they also reduced what is the "sweet spot" from its current 223 levels?
This sounds like something that will help new players a lot (heck even being able to do 10% damage where previously they would do 0 is a huge benefit).
Sounds like a big shift in thinking as I thought they had ruled it out in the past as it meant 3 bites +para was not always a kill (seemed a silly reason IMO).
<!--quoteo(post=1993987:date=Oct 20 2012, 12:58 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Oct 20 2012, 12:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993987"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, we did not make it smaller. The 75 damage cone is equal to the current 223 damage cone.
-Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thank you tahts great to hear, really keen to see this as it sounds like it should help address a lot of the issues that resulted in rage quitting. I think people will happily accept a couple more bites if they dont perfectly land 1.
<!--quoteo(post=1993669:date=Oct 19 2012, 12:32 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Oct 19 2012, 12:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why do skulks need a "glancing" bite. just another tool for laggers imo. free 25 dmg hit for hitbox drag/latency.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because being a lagging player is so much fun for the lagger too. They just love having to go around the same corner multiple times. Having bites/shots not land, dying after they're already out a marine's LOS. It's just as frustrating for them. ;p
As a "lagger" I'd much rather have a stable low ping than in my current <a href="http://youtu.be/PqRJXJR4rPY" target="_blank">derp ping jitter</a>. And hopefully soon I should since I just told my current ISP to shove it.
<!--quoteo(post=1993848:date=Oct 19 2012, 11:46 AM:name=Typhon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Typhon @ Oct 19 2012, 11:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993848"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If we don't get it until next week, then it's going to be the last patch before release, and that's disconcerting with the number and type of changes being made.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We are planning another patch before release as well.
Vladimir Van VodkaSexy BeastJoin Date: 2010-07-30Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1994110:date=Oct 20 2012, 04:56 PM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ Oct 20 2012, 04:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1994110"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We are planning another patch before release as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't understand how you guys expect to pull that off :P it's like trying to get Hugh <i>not</i> to smile.
this glancing bite thing sounds great, I am very interested to try it and it sounds like it will work very well with the current build. I know i kinda stopped playing in build 223 because of how bad aliens had it. I am not really a marine or alien fanboi I just kinda like to play the side that is losing for the challenge. Aliens in 223 didn't have a challenge it was like marines shooting fish in a barrel, entirely unfun.
I like that this glancing bite system essentially rewards accuracy in degrees the same way a dart board does, with the bulls eye being the best. Perhaps in the future we will see the bite cone split up even more into sections of accuracy like a dart board does. =) It punishes complete miss's in the same way any system would, which is also great.
<!--quoteo(post=1994239:date=Oct 20 2012, 03:42 PM:name=Reeke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Reeke @ Oct 20 2012, 03:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1994239"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hope it's out before the weekend is completely over. Marine wins are so close to passing 70% in this patch so far on ns2stats.org.
That seems pretty bad (though I've not experienced it being that biased on the euro servers id play on)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, this week's been pretty dire on most the US servers I've played on. Not only because of the airbounce, but also because of the stacking which occurs because of that airbounce.
<!--quoteo(post=1994240:date=Oct 20 2012, 04:44 PM:name=Scubbo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scubbo @ Oct 20 2012, 04:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1994240"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I remeber seeing the logitec tourney server was filtered out with the MOD's filter, so maybe already running new version? or some sort of fix mod?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think the servers are using an updated spectator mod
What I don't understand is, can't they just keep playing on 223 for the tournament while the official steam version gets updated? Have we (or UWE for that matter) become so dependent upon the shackles of Steam that they cannot run their own software in a controlled fashion with an older or "stable" version?
If it's the matchmaking you need, I can whip that up for ya in a couple of days. Did it for other games that didn't have their own masterservers too.
I'm sure that wasn't the reason 224 wasn't released this week, I'm guessing it simply wasn't ready. They've released patches the day before a tournament in the past. I'm hoping we'll see 224 on tuesday (that way they have another week for the last patch before release), really looking forward to it.
Comments
No, worst case scenario is that it doesn't fix the problem, which is that skulk play is alienating (heh) newbies. There is literally no time for another full patch after 224. 221 skulks were far from the end of the world and I highly recommend that they are returned to until features like glancing blows can be actually tested. Give it the month of November. We'll see though.
It keeps aliens in the game while still rewarding precision.
It greatly benefits skulk rushes, as the likelihood of SOME kind of damage being done is a lot higher, instead of a bunch of guys nipping at the marines praying to land a bite.
I think this change might be okay but only if the full-damage bite cone is kept the way the vanilla bite is now (small). Glancing bite should only be kept to increase alien effectiveness as close range on the heels of an enemy. If it becomes a problem, maybe make glance bite cone smaller or reduce the damage to 15. It might not be a bad idea either to balance out this change with a SLIGHT reduction in range to bite, just because this increases combat effectiveness at close range so much.
It felt "right", with a low skill entrance requirement that pays off as you get good at it... exactly what every inch of this game should aim for.
The 221 bite cone was hardly game breaking, wouldnt it make more sense for the glancing blow (that im assuming uses the 221 bite cone), to do 50dmg and the new accurate bite cone for 223, do 25 bonus damage ?
with 50 dmg glancing blow ...
a good skulk could still kill a lvl 0 marine with 2 good bites and a parasite
a bad skulk would take 3 glancing bites and a parasite or 1 good bite and a 2 glancing bites
however with a glancing blow of 25 ... a bad skulk (assuming all glancing blows) would take 7 bites ???? and if that bad skulk got in 1 good bite ... thats still 5 bites ...
This problem will become more obvious as marines get armor upgrades :/
well based on what you said im assuming something like this (maybe more detailed if there are even more cones)
3 cones register a hit doing 75 dmg
2 cones register a hit doing 50 dmg (slight miss)
1 cone registers a hit doing 25 damage (glancing)
i think i prefer this way, however its still a nerf to skulks as they are no more effective than they were in 221. If combined with better movement mechanics (walljump and ceiling drop are ok... but theres still something missing :/ ), then i think the skulk may be in a very good place :>
See thats what reason tells you, however I bet what the devs are gonna do is make the current hitbox glancing and make the proper hitbox even smaller.
No, we did not make it smaller. The 75 damage cone is equal to the current 223 damage cone.
-Cory
That happened in build 221.
Are we able to know how many hitboxes? (if you guys cant say then can they please put in release notes for patch?)
Would also be interested to know if they simply added additional boxes to cover wider area or if they also reduced what is the "sweet spot" from its current 223 levels?
This sounds like something that will help new players a lot (heck even being able to do 10% damage where previously they would do 0 is a huge benefit).
Sounds like a big shift in thinking as I thought they had ruled it out in the past as it meant 3 bites +para was not always a kill (seemed a silly reason IMO).
<!--quoteo(post=1993987:date=Oct 20 2012, 12:58 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Oct 20 2012, 12:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1993987"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, we did not make it smaller. The 75 damage cone is equal to the current 223 damage cone.
-Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you tahts great to hear, really keen to see this as it sounds like it should help address a lot of the issues that resulted in rage quitting.
I think people will happily accept a couple more bites if they dont perfectly land 1.
Because being a lagging player is so much fun for the lagger too. They just love having to go around the same corner multiple times. Having bites/shots not land, dying after they're already out a marine's LOS. It's just as frustrating for them. ;p
As a "lagger" I'd much rather have a stable low ping than in my current <a href="http://youtu.be/PqRJXJR4rPY" target="_blank">derp ping jitter</a>. And hopefully soon I should since I just told my current ISP to shove it.
We are planning another patch before release as well.
I don't understand how you guys expect to pull that off :P
it's like trying to get Hugh <i>not</i> to smile.
I like that this glancing bite system essentially rewards accuracy in degrees the same way a dart board does, with the bulls eye being the best. Perhaps in the future we will see the bite cone split up even more into sections of accuracy like a dart board does. =) It punishes complete miss's in the same way any system would, which is also great.
That seems pretty bad (though I've not experienced it being that biased on the euro servers id play on)
That seems pretty bad (though I've not experienced it being that biased on the euro servers id play on)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, this week's been pretty dire on most the US servers I've played on. Not only because of the airbounce, but also because of the stacking which occurs because of that airbounce.
I think the servers are using an updated spectator mod
If it's the matchmaking you need, I can whip that up for ya in a couple of days. Did it for other games that didn't have their own masterservers too.