Give the Shade protection
Imbalanxd
Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
<div class="IPBDescription">against it's natural enemy</div>So we all know what the shade is all about. Deception, confusion and all that great sense trickery. By the sounds of it, you would think it would be having quite a battle against its polar opposite; the marine Observatory. However, what happens in practice is less of a battle, and more of a hard counter (uh oh).
At the moment, one contributing factor (among many) to the shades dismal track record in terms of viability is how easily the vast majority of its benefits are rendered useless by a single (essentially mandatory) marine structure, the Observatory. The way I see it, given the <b>choice </b>involved in upgrading to a shade hive, if anything it should be the other way around. The shade should be a counter to the observatory. Not a hard counter, mind you, but a hindrance to it's normal functioning. Marines should, and do, typically have the choice to scan and expose a large area of territory, greatly increasing the chances of the marines in the area. I think that the shade should prevent this, at least to a certain degree.
The system I envision involves removing cloaking as the shades passive ability, and returning it to an active ability, as it was in previous builds. The passive ability which would take its place would be some sort of "nano distortion" effect. Any scans overlapping the effect area of the shade would become distorted, which would be visibly represented to marines via the blue lines which the scan animation displays. There would also be a visible energy signature radiating towards the shade's location, and the shade would become around 50% visible. In return, the scans usual effect within the shades area of effect would be completely cancelled. Invisible aliens would remain invisible, and visible aliens would not appear on the minimap, or to the marine commander.
Permanently invisible aliens could of course become a problem, so I propose that the cloaking effect then become active, with a duration of around 20 or so seconds (whatever it used to be when it was an active ability). This would also create the dynamic of players potentially taking camouflage and remaining within distance of a shade structure. This sacrifice of mobility and a more generally applicable upgrade in turn gives them great defensive power in a limited area.
As for not being a hard counter, the shade definitely should not be able to do this indefinitely. Even though the marines are given adequate indication of where the source of their woes is located, I still think it would be undesirable to have a shade completely blocking an area from vision. To address this, I suggest an "energy" system (wait, don't stop reading yet!). This energy system would not be visible to the commander, and wouldn't be something you would need to keep track of. Simply put, there would be a certain amount of scanning that a shade would be able to absorb, after which it would need to recharge for a period of time before it could distort another scan. Ideally, the amount of "energy" expended would be proportional to the overlap of the shade's area of effect, and that of the scan's. So if the marine commander drops a scan directly on top of the shades location, the maximum amount of energy is consumed, whereas if only half of the scan overlaps the area, half as much is used. I think it would be fair if a single shade had the ability to "absorb" 1 and a bit full scans. The "and a bit" is to make up for the discovery process. At first the commander won't be aware of the shade's location, but should notice that one is in the area after use. At the point he can choose to deplete the shades remaining energy by placing a scan directly on top of the shade, potentially even getting a few moments of vision in the area towards the end of the scan's duration.
*I think stacking multiple shades in a single area to block out multiple scans should be viable and legitimate.
At the moment, one contributing factor (among many) to the shades dismal track record in terms of viability is how easily the vast majority of its benefits are rendered useless by a single (essentially mandatory) marine structure, the Observatory. The way I see it, given the <b>choice </b>involved in upgrading to a shade hive, if anything it should be the other way around. The shade should be a counter to the observatory. Not a hard counter, mind you, but a hindrance to it's normal functioning. Marines should, and do, typically have the choice to scan and expose a large area of territory, greatly increasing the chances of the marines in the area. I think that the shade should prevent this, at least to a certain degree.
The system I envision involves removing cloaking as the shades passive ability, and returning it to an active ability, as it was in previous builds. The passive ability which would take its place would be some sort of "nano distortion" effect. Any scans overlapping the effect area of the shade would become distorted, which would be visibly represented to marines via the blue lines which the scan animation displays. There would also be a visible energy signature radiating towards the shade's location, and the shade would become around 50% visible. In return, the scans usual effect within the shades area of effect would be completely cancelled. Invisible aliens would remain invisible, and visible aliens would not appear on the minimap, or to the marine commander.
Permanently invisible aliens could of course become a problem, so I propose that the cloaking effect then become active, with a duration of around 20 or so seconds (whatever it used to be when it was an active ability). This would also create the dynamic of players potentially taking camouflage and remaining within distance of a shade structure. This sacrifice of mobility and a more generally applicable upgrade in turn gives them great defensive power in a limited area.
As for not being a hard counter, the shade definitely should not be able to do this indefinitely. Even though the marines are given adequate indication of where the source of their woes is located, I still think it would be undesirable to have a shade completely blocking an area from vision. To address this, I suggest an "energy" system (wait, don't stop reading yet!). This energy system would not be visible to the commander, and wouldn't be something you would need to keep track of. Simply put, there would be a certain amount of scanning that a shade would be able to absorb, after which it would need to recharge for a period of time before it could distort another scan. Ideally, the amount of "energy" expended would be proportional to the overlap of the shade's area of effect, and that of the scan's. So if the marine commander drops a scan directly on top of the shades location, the maximum amount of energy is consumed, whereas if only half of the scan overlaps the area, half as much is used. I think it would be fair if a single shade had the ability to "absorb" 1 and a bit full scans. The "and a bit" is to make up for the discovery process. At first the commander won't be aware of the shade's location, but should notice that one is in the area after use. At the point he can choose to deplete the shades remaining energy by placing a scan directly on top of the shade, potentially even getting a few moments of vision in the area towards the end of the scan's duration.
*I think stacking multiple shades in a single area to block out multiple scans should be viable and legitimate.
Comments
The idea of cloaking as an active ability + an energy system could give rise to some excellent gameplay..
It would almost be analogous to a day/night system in some fantasy games/settings (I'm specifically thinking of a game called Wesnoth) where one side becomes powerful during the day and weak during the night, and the converse applies to the opposing side.
To simultaneously make camouflage/Shades more powerful, more interesting, and less prone to being hard-countered by scans, it could be limited to an energy system whereby you could like, activate it for 1 minute every 3 minutes, and during that time Aliens get the cloaking effect that isn't countered by scan, as you said.
That would make them insanely strong within that 1 minute, but in the other 2 minutes the marines get to attack before it cools down and "night" sets in again.
The easiest way to make Ink more effective is to notify the alien khammander when an area is being scanned, that way he would be able to react quicker by enabling ink in response. That being said, the biggest issue with shade hive viability is not the shade itself, it has more to do with the lifeform upgrades it enables. These upgrades, despite being pretty decent, are simply not as necessary as celerity and carapace are right now, due to base skulks and other lifeforms under-performing. When this is addressed, shades will also become a lot more viable I am sure.
I think shades should be able to be built off infestation.
The easiest way to make Ink more effective is to notify the alien khammander when an area is being scanned, that way he would be able to react quicker by enabling ink in response. That being said, the biggest issue with shade hive viability is not the shade itself, it has more to do with the lifeform upgrades it enables. These upgrades, despite being pretty decent, are simply not as necessary as celerity and carapace are right now, due to base skulks and other lifeforms under-performing. When this is addressed, shades will also become a lot more viable I am sure.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well its an interesting point, whether we want to balance the three different routes around the upgrades alone, or the structures that become available. Crag is taken by and large for its upgrades only, with actual crags seldom featuring. Shifts themselves have their benefits with vulnerable eggs, as well as providing very good upgrades.
Maybe if shade upgrades are seen to be lacking at the moment, its worth looking into increasing its viability by buffing the structure, rather than going the obvious route.
The problem with ink cloud is obviously that its currently broken, as well as it requiring activation, which as you said, would require awkward interface additions which don't mirror the other structures very well. Furthermore, probably most importantly, is early game viability. Even if shade hive is chosen first, ink cloud only becomes available much later. There needs to be some reason to take shade as a first upgrade.
<!--quoteo(post=1996048:date=Oct 24 2012, 01:48 PM:name=d0ped0g)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (d0ped0g @ Oct 24 2012, 01:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1996048"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think shades should be able to be built off infestation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What, just drop a shade anywhere you want on the map at any time you want?
It's not broken atm, it effectively blocks scans. I've had some good alien commanders use it to stop ARC rushes. For that purpose alone, ink is quite amazing.
I heard from a reliable source that it only stops scans that have yet to go down. If you ink cloud after the marine commander has placed the scan, it does nothing.
This.
Personally, I think it should work that one ink cloud cancels one scan, so aliens have to keep using it if they want to block scanning.