Match finding place
supsu
Join Date: 2012-04-24 Member: 151023Members, Squad Five Blue
Join Date: 2012-04-24 Member: 151023Members, Squad Five Blue
<div class="IPBDescription">we really need this...</div>This is a really big problem that we really need to think about here and now. If new teams start to, and probably will, pop up we need to have a some place where they can join or go and look for scrims. Steam friends or groups isn't suitable for people over 300 or so at all, except the group chat might be an option. Anyways I'm open for any kind of ideas as long as we figure something out because I find this almost the biggest problem what comes down to scene actually growing.
Some ideas:
-IRC-channel. I'd personally prefer this and I don't think it's a problem that people don't use irc etc. #cod4.wars had +2000 idlers 24/7 at the peak time all the time and I bet most of them didn't really use IRC for anything else than that; if we just get +40 constant idlers there it'll grow if the scene will grow, as long as we have something to start with.
-Website. Could work and it'd be probably easy to use but making it easier to use than spamming "6v6/eu/mid/now" in irc sounds like an impossible task, plus making a chat mechanism in that sounds hard and a lot of work.
-Steam group. Not sure how the chat stuff work in it but if it's good then a public steam group where people idle in the group chat and search scrims would be as good as an irc-channel.
Anyways we need to do something about this and decide something and after we've decided _everyone_ should use it so we can make it grow.
Some ideas:
-IRC-channel. I'd personally prefer this and I don't think it's a problem that people don't use irc etc. #cod4.wars had +2000 idlers 24/7 at the peak time all the time and I bet most of them didn't really use IRC for anything else than that; if we just get +40 constant idlers there it'll grow if the scene will grow, as long as we have something to start with.
-Website. Could work and it'd be probably easy to use but making it easier to use than spamming "6v6/eu/mid/now" in irc sounds like an impossible task, plus making a chat mechanism in that sounds hard and a lot of work.
-Steam group. Not sure how the chat stuff work in it but if it's good then a public steam group where people idle in the group chat and search scrims would be as good as an irc-channel.
Anyways we need to do something about this and decide something and after we've decided _everyone_ should use it so we can make it grow.
Comments
Anyways, from the options, the quickest one to get working fast is either using Steam Chat for a group dedicated to matches (and there are a few, so we'd need to decide which one to use) or go back to IRC, but I think idling in a steam group is ideal since we all have Steam installed and running already.
The problem with a website is that when a team is looking for another team it could be hard to know if the teams that have 6 players online are at the website looking for a matchup.
The only reason to use a website is if we include some kind of a booking thing there, so teams can decide to play eachother a day in advance - and if the team dont show up at all without any notice they will be kicked out for not keeping agreements.
If booking aint optimal, I think steam groups or IRC is to prefere.
<b>The problem with steamgroups</b>
If they are public, they will have a lot of players. And if the players dont have any clan tag in front of their name, it will be hard to know who to message. Just going random message on a steam group is not suitable for me, I want to know in advance if I'm messaging a well known clan or a new team that I've never heard of.
If they are closed, I'd prefere to have the captains and co-captains/scrim-organizers there only - with some way to find out what clan they are in. I'm using my clantag in my steam name now because I know how hard it can be to identify players on Steam otherwise.
I'm never hanging around in steam chat groups unless we're in a tournament, and as far as I can see, neither are others.
<b>IRC</b>
IRC could work, there are a channel for it right now I think, but I'm not sure if it's the optimal way to do things. It really depends on how big the scene gets in NS2 I think.
Steam groups is obviously not a viable alternative, come on guys...
It is taking a while as it needs to be really easy to use, responsive and fast. Adding the ability to both arrange immediate gather type scrims and schedule matches in the future has made it more complex, but I think it will be an invaluable tool.
Once I have it up and clans can test it, we can polish it off so that it lets you get on with playing NS2 instead of struggling to communicate.
P.S. I have spoken to a lot of clans already, but release has slowed progress on this particular tool, I will be talking to everyone once I am back (I'm away over release).
How would it work?
and of course, they have the versus system ...
but to put this into work, there have to play MANY gamers ... so im still interested in Argas solution
From what little i have seen, it looks awsome...and seems to cover alot of what you guys here are looking for.
No, the IRC network is basicly dead, compared to what it used to be.
That is why we need an alternative, like what Arga is working on. *whip cracks*
The website solution will also be much easier for new users.
IRC is not all that user friendly, even though it has almost endless possibilities with scripting etc.
Nothing to set up, just create a profile and sign your team up and start searching.
Sounds awesome to me. :)
How would it work?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The PCW Finder Tool part will work very similar to ENSLs gather system. Clan leaders signup on the site and register their clans, they can then promote anyone else they want to be able to arrange matches. Once they are ready to play, they will confirm they have players ready and the clan will be put into an available pool, where they can then view a list of all other available clans (and sort them, by region, etc). Each clan would be displayed with some info, server available, server location, where the clan is from, (with potential for ns2stats integration eventually) etc. With a challenge button.
Once a team clicks challenge on another (and confirms it) the team that has been challenged gets a popup explaining who has challenged them (and displays relevant info), allowing them to decide if they want to accept or not. Once a clan has accepted a challenge they have access to a private chat box with the other clan leader (or officer) so that they can continue to arrange the PCW, like passing on server information, etc.
The other side of this system would allow teams to propose matches in the future and allow the receiver to accept, counter propose (say a different day or time) or decline. Accepted matches would go into a calendar or schedule which both teams can see, perhaps also allowing members to signup to the match.
I hope that basic outline gives you an idea, there will need to be more discussion and eventually testing but I will not stop until the system does a great job for the people it is aimed at, the clans.
I believe I can do this with the help/experience from the teams (you know what you want to do best), it would just be my job to make this easier for you. In return I gain experience making super useful web apps that are easy to use, we all win.
Once a team clicks challenge on another (and confirms it) the team that has been challenged gets a popup explaining who has challenged them (and displays relevant info), allowing them to decide if they want to accept or not. Once a clan has accepted a challenge they have access to a private chat box with the other clan leader (or officer) so that they can continue to arrange the PCW, like passing on server information, etc.
The other side of this system would allow teams to propose matches in the future and allow the receiver to accept, counter propose (say a different day or time) or decline. Accepted matches would go into a calendar or schedule which both teams can see, perhaps also allowing members to signup to the match.
I hope that basic outline gives you an idea, there will need to be more discussion and eventually testing but I will not stop until the system does a great job for the people it is aimed at, the clans.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly, that sounds like a lot of hassle to go through, as opposed to having an open chat channel where people can just say "looking for pcw <x> time". PCWs isn't something you should have to organize per se, that's what you have tournaments for. PCWs should take two seconds to "set up", with the only required communication being "hey dude still looking for a pcw? what server?" and a reply of "sure, join <x> ip".
<!--quoteo(post=1999859:date=Oct 29 2012, 04:41 PM:name=eh?)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (eh? @ Oct 29 2012, 04:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999859"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The simple approaches all break down once the community grows to a certain size. I will plan for NS2 doing well and scale down if no-one plays it.
Although it sounds complex, it is essentially just clicking challenge and passing server details. I could certainly do something simple more quickly in the meantime, I will see what happens at release I guess.
It's quite the opposite, actually. The more convoluted you make it, the more of a hassle it becomes when more teams join in.
The simple approach (IRC open channel) has worked wonderfully for much larger games than NS2 will ever be (CS 1.6 and CoD for example).
eh's suggestion is the only version of this that I can imagine working in practice.
The simple approach (IRC open channel) has worked wonderfully for much larger games than NS2 will ever be (CS 1.6 and CoD for example).
eh's suggestion is the only version of this that I can imagine working in practice.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. A complex system can have an incredibly simple user-interface. What I am suggesting works just as simply as an IRC channel (perhaps slightly worse in some uses, better in others) but perhaps I have not managed to get that across.
I cannot easily discuss this right now as I am using my girlfriends laptop and the damned keys are in the wrong places, making it rage inducing writing these posts (why oh why would you switch Y and Z!). I will think about what you have said, if I cannot make it as simple for the user as IRC, there really is no point. Perhaps a simpler approach would be more relevant.
19:38 < nadyli> cw eu HS
After minute or 2 (with popular game as Dota2 or CS) some one will query you
19:40 < some random dude> ok lets go
19:40 < nadyli> 127.0.0.1 pw gorgelove
It doesn't get easier than that. No need to complicate things too much, just let people queue for a game and the ability for others to message them. I still don't see what's the problem with IRC thought, I've always used it and probably will never stop using it until something better comes along (don't see that happening in the near future). One solution: control your scrim search through IRC network where people can use both IRC and website whichever they prefer but that could get too complicated to code.
Sneak-edit: #ns2.search (QuakeNet) now up and running
#naturalselection @ irc.gamesurge.net apperas to be the only real ns channel open, i mean, public community.
So i opened a #ns2.gather on the same network, for practical reasons it's better to have everything on the same network, and apparently people on NS are used to gamesurge. I don't like it, i'd rather be on Quakenet, but whatever really.
<b>#NS2.GATHER @ irc.gamesurge.net</b> is up and running, it just needs its fame. The more popular it gets, the better it will be.
Spread the word people ;)
#naturalselection @ irc.gamesurge.net apperas to be the only real ns channel open, i mean, public community.
So i opened a #ns2.gather on the same network, for practical reasons it's better to have everything on the same network, and apparently people on NS are used to gamesurge. I don't like it, i'd rather be on Quakenet, but whatever really.
<b>#NS2.GATHER @ irc.gamesurge.net</b> is up and running, it just needs its fame. The more popular it gets, the better it will be.
Spread the word people ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See the post above yours. :) We have both these channels in QuakeNet and just waiting for more people to join. Also ensl.org IRC channel is located on QuakeNet so feel free to join #ENSL if you fancy some chit-chat.
I have been wanting to start working on this as well, since there are no such system atm. I think it would only take couple days to get it working, and then could improve it over time.
THIS
let's keep this guy.