[225] - Commanding / Khammanding Tutorials

MaximumSquid · October 2012

This is a thread for new players who want to break into commanding with fresh info from version 225 and forward
The thread will not cover everything, but instead offer up a bunch of info that may not be obvious

Update: The metagame is shifting finally! Sentries are no longer as dominate against smarter players so this is the <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=125499" target="_blank">new marine build order</a> I recommend

Marine Team (Commanding):

Sandbox Game:
If you are new to comm I graciously ask that you play a solo sandbox game first to learn the controls/hotkeys/build orders/tech tree/etc
-having an observatory hotkeyed and ready to use distress beacon could make or break a match
-likewise the "V" key bound to your talk key might toss matches as it's the hotkey to recycle buildings @_@

To do so:
Open NS-2 > Play > Start Server Tab at the top > "optionally" set a password > Create
Once in game go into console "typically this key ---> ` " and type in these commands:
dev 1
cheats 1
addbot 1 1
addbot 1 2

Then join a side
Once on a team you can also type in:
autobuild <--- builds instantly, fast MACs, builds all power
tres 100 <--- give your team 100 res
pres 100 <--- give yourself 100 res
removebot 1 1
removebot 1 2

For a full list of console commands <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Console_Commands" target="_blank">go here</a>

Once you have the above done feel free to alt tab back out of game and continue reading

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The Chair:
Sprint to the chair at the start of the game and hit "use"
- if more than one marine is in the chair when it closes the one who pressed use second will die and have to respawn
- also take note how long it takes to close the box. . . you won't be able to escape inside the comm chair during a fight like aliens can

If the chair dies your team loses the game
- you can build more than one chair and having more than one will give you access to the highest tier of researchable goods
- alternatively if all marines are dead and there are no infantry portals you will also lose

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Resources:

Your team starts off with 50 res, but only 1 resource tower (+1 res every 6 seconds)
- this makes getting more towers essential since you'll be out of it quickly
- res locking is also a common way to end a game, but is much more common to happen to the alien team due to having no sell button

Your teammates also have their own private stash of resources and are affected directly by your income as well
- dead players will be skipped during regular ticks so making choices that keep your team alive longer will show benefits late game
- you will also have personal res, but while in the chair you will not gain any (similar to being dead and trying to respawn)

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Openers:

First 5 minutes is considered the early game by most players standards
- being in a good position on marines means having 5 or more res nodes (essentially all your starting res)
- before 5 min is up you can expect to make another 200 res so we will be working off this

Structures will be dieing too; however, so you need to pad this in
- lets take 50-70 res for nodes alone (leaving you roughly 180 for the first 5 min of the game)
- also keeping in mind that you will be using res to drop health, ammo, and dropping forward buildings so here are the realistic options:

Rushing Phase Gate+Mines: (85 res/+15 for each additional phase gate)
Rushing Sentries: (40 res/+20 for each additional sentry nest)
Rushing Mines+Shottie+Weapons2 (120 res and 3 min build time)
Rushing Dual Arms Lab (130 res for lvl2 and 3 min build time)
Rushing Jetpack+Shottie (130 res, a second chair, and 3 min build time)
Rushing SingleExo+Welders (125 res, a second chair, and 3 min build time)
Rushing Grenade Launchers (50 res and 2 min build time)

*Large player games add +15 or +30 res for a 2nd/3rd Infantry portal

Obviously as several of these require an Armory you can mix things up a bit (getting Mines and an Arms Lab. . . etc)
- an important thing to keep in mind though is the game's tempo. . . some research becomes obsolete later (mines is a good example)
- even worse is suddenly and very desperately needing a research that is 3 minutes away (like armor2 when fades hit the floor)

Starting location and scouting where the enemy hive also plays a big role in your opener
- some starting locations are static for one team and are easier to get acquainted with
- other times games get dumped on their heads as your team goes North while the enemy comes in from the South and your base gets wiped

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Rushing Sentries:

Feel free to experiment, but this is the strat I use because it's the lowest cost, works great in the early game, and gives you MACs

To start off immediately drop the robotics positioned in a way that blocks the power node:

<img src="http://i50.tinypic.com/25j01.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Once it's built make one MAC and hotkey it (you can leave it in the base or have it follow the biggest group of marines around)

Then find out where the enemy hive is so you can put down your initial forward sentry nest

Here is an example of summit when the aliens are in flight control and marines are pushing from the south:
<img src="http://i50.tinypic.com/2hyuvkh.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Normally this is a very difficult resource tower to hold with aliens spawn so close and two vents to backdoor from
- typically I would have 3 marines hold this point with an armory+mines and they still might lose it
- with sentries you can have 1 marine + 1 mac hold it for quite a while with supply drops or an armory

You're paying 10 more res, but you just freed up 2 marines FOR 10 RES

Here's the reverse:
<img src="http://i45.tinypic.com/2n24cna.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Now marines find the hive South from comp lab
- first kindly ask the marines not to shoot the hive (at least not yet!)
- then put up the sentry nest which can be built a room without power to dominate the corner

Sentries in General:

While marines without armor upgrades are very much like glass cannons early game sentries can take 10 bites from a skulk before dieing
- There DPS is much lower though. . . it takes a good 7 seconds for 2 turrets to kill one carapace skulk at range
- Close range with 3 will drop skulks fast though and are easy prey for marines while they are biting stationary objects like the battery

Again as a reminder sentries don't require power and typically dominate when placed inside a hive:
<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xusq9i_ns-2-summit-sentries-in-flight-control-hive_videogames" target="_blank">http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xusq9i_ns...hive_videogames</a>

Sentries cannot shoot buildings (but they can shoot eggs!)
- Sentries will not attack cloaked units unless they become revealed
- Sentries may or may not be affected by weapon upgrades (need to check still)

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Midgame:

Midgame officially begins the moment the opposing team starts getting tech from a 2nd hive

If you're using the above strat it will almost certainly be bile bombs
-I've watched a single gorge turn games around and even end games. . . the skill is a power house
-Make it very clear to your team that you want gorges dead (even suiciding to kill a gorge is now acceptable)

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Structure Placement:

While not so crucial in early game it will become painfully clear later on if you don't place things properly

Here's a good example on summit:
<img src="http://i46.tinypic.com/711yyh.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Gorge is getting free shots against your base. . . simply placing objects better will counter this:
- Bile bomb has a good range when arced so keep this in mind
- <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xunhof_gorge-dummy-waiter-ns-2-veil-build-225_videogames" target="_blank">Vents are also very common place for gorges to get into</a>

Putting down an armory in a room that cannot be powered happens often as well:

<img src="http://i50.tinypic.com/dr45m8.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

If you are unfamiliar with the room borders you can sometimes use a sentry battery to see where the next room starts by dragging it around the map until it turns from red back to green, but again I would like to stress sandbox testing and just learning the maps

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Transitioning "strategy":

It's hopefully midgame and your initial strat isn't working, is starting to be countered, or you need to switch things up

Knowing what is useful for counter alien tech & strategy can be picked up over time
- more often than not your teammates will ask for a specific tech
- being good at comm means that you will probably be telling these people "No" a lot

Here's some basics:

Vs. Skulk or Shift Rush: Observatory + Mines or Sentry+1 Marine or Weapons2
Vs. Lerk: Phase Gates + Shotgun + Armory
Vs. Gorge: Forward Armory or Scan
Vs. Fade: Shotgun + Armor2 or Nanoshield + Health Drop
Vs. Onos: Jetpack + Shotgun or Exo + Welder

More important than what your foes are doing might be where they are

In a recent game I didn't even get one sentry nest up before the alien team had control of the center of the map and locked it down hard
-I wasn't going to be able to defend 5 front lines with nests so I went for phase gates immediately
-I had 1 sentry nest outside the center of the map and marines that could reinforce from either side or go around

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Endgame:

You're officially in endgame when you've tried several upgrades and they haven't worked

It's time pull out the big guns:

ARCs, Exos, or Jetpack+WeaponOfChoice

ARCs are the most risky of all, but if you went sentries they are literally 2 clicks away
-luckily with the latest patches ARCs synergize really well with sentries so as long as pressure isn't to high you can pull it out
-2 or 3 ARCs should be max. . . big trains are a huge waste of res that could of been spent simply buying an Exo for a marine

Exos end pretty much all games immediately, but are often countered by their slow speed
-to avoid this split them up and have one group cover while the main force brute forces their way in with scans, MACs, and/or welders
-watch the fights carefully and be ready to spam health and shield on non-exo teammates who are keeping the big dudes alive

Jetpack+X only works when very skilled or desperate players are on your team
-you basically split and attack every hive on the map simultaneously
-this is also the best counter if your opponents are splitting up and attacking 3 or more rooms at one time

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Map Specific Strats:

Here's a detailed description of <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=122955&st=0" target="_blank">how to crush face on Refinery</a>

radforChrist has generously provided a <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=122388" target="_blank">detailed guide up for Docking</a>, another easy map for Marines

Here's a short writeup of how to <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=125304" target="_blank">win very easily on Mineshaft</a> depending on how luck or unlucky your enemy's spawn hive is

More map guides to come
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MaximumSquid · October 2012

Alien Side:

Most of the learning curve is on <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=122446" target="_blank">cyst placement</a>

You can use cysts to deny locations and fake that you are going to drop a risky node (and watch marines camp it waiting for the tower you will never drop)

Coordination is also key. . . much more so than marine team who get phase gates

Something as simple as telling your players how to <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=122309" target="_blank">bile bomb down a location from relative safety</a> could be enough to turn the game over

There are also a number of silly starts you can pull, but only if your <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=122331" target="_blank">whole team is willing to cooperate</a>

What upgrades and when?:

General rule of thumb is to not select an upgrade on the hive until you see how your opponent is running things

Spreading cysts like crazy at the start in the hopes of securing 5 resource towers is pretty well a guaranteed win if your team is coordinated with gorges blocking off choke points or if you have smart skulks on your team that can vent hop to far and undefended res nodes to keep your opponent busy

If your team is dieing like mad you will need to drop a shift immediately to keep eggs up

Large maps like Mineshaft and Refinery pretty well demand early Celerity or if you have an early Lerk presence

Going early Crag Hive is perfect for skulk rushes or early fades who get their choice of Cara or Regen

Gorge rushes typically go adrenaline

Docking is the best map for early camouflage and silence gets a lot of use in Tram due to it's heavy corner concealment for skulks

With the 229 patch Crags, Regen, and Camo have all received nice buffs
Additionally Veils are only 5 res with spurs being 10 (this means you can spend 30 res to get both cloak and silence)

Hive starting location:

Sometimes the start of your hive will dictate your moves

Departure on Docking <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=122948&st=0" target="_blank">is probably the worst starting hive in the game</a>
If you're unfortunate enough to land this drop the crag immediately for carapace and go for the skulk rush while one gorge tries to secure generator or locker room for a fast second hive so you don't get egg locked

Here are some other bad starting hives:
Server room on Tram (very long cyst chains required for any res)
Cave in Mineshaft (only when marines start in repair room because it's too close and they have a long easy shot down Cavern)
Flight Control (when marines are Data Core) or Data Core (When Marines are Sub Access) on Summit

Either way have a look over on the maps and get your opening moves planned out

Cyst hopping tutorial coming next. . .

1 Hive Strats:

3 Shift Play: might get nerfed. . . check it out while you can!
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=124527&st=0" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...124527&st=0</a>

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Systemdir · October 2012

very nice post! I wish the devs would add a commander exploration mode in the lern tabs.

Sidewinder84 · October 2012

I agree, i started up the exploration mode to learn commander... but alot of it is already built. I understand this is the check out the different weapons and evolutions but considering there is no manual for this game that ive seen, as a new player im really struggling to learn alot of the requirements and mechanics of the game. My first try with alien commander i planned to get leap and carapace for the skulks... but i upgraded to crag hive and then couldnt even figure out how to research leap. I had a second hive rolling and i was telling my team my plan... but i didnt know how all the research works...

After making a local private server and using some of the console commands im doing a little better, but im really just scanning the forums for any posts like this that help me progress from my current rookie status :)

Plunkies · October 2012

How do cysts work? I assumed they work like starcraft creep tumors but they don't seem to build automatically even though the wiki says they should. I could only get them created by farting on them with the gorge. Is that really the only way to spread creep or am I missing something?

MistenTH · November 2012

Cysts build and spread infestation automatically unless the chain gets broken by a marine. You can tell - connected cysts glow yellow. Unconnected fade and become dark.

For the power node perimeter, there's an easier way to tell. Active power nodes send out a pulse that the commander can see. Where it ends is the limit of its power supply.

MaximumSquid · November 2012

Added 2 map specific guides for docking

Alien tutorials updated

It's taking much longer than I thought due to how the Alien strats are much more dependent on how much cover a map has, where the marines start, what your team evolves into etc. . .

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B1lly · November 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Plunkies @ Nov 1 2012, 12:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>How do cysts work? I assumed they work like starcraft creep tumors but they don't seem to build automatically even though the wiki says they should. I could only get them created by farting on them with the gorge. Is that really the only way to spread creep or am I missing something?</div>

is there a pirated version of an old beta on torrent?

Philk · November 2012

Hey Sidewinder, are you the same from SC 2 forums? If yes, I'm not sure if you remember me but I'm from the place too.

Great topic, I was really looking forward to commander tutorials and asked for help in a thread I made earlier, hope to see more on Khammanding, marine's guide was way more complete.

MaximumSquid · November 2012

More updates. . .

Added info for 3 Shift Play and the recent 229 updates where a bunch of alien stuff got buffed

RaZDaZ · November 2012

Awesome guide m8, would love to see more commanders on the field. Will add this into my overview topics under links :)

ToBeAdvised · July 2013

Thank you so much for this guide. I will play for the first time tomorrow. Looking forward to it! Also is their a similar guide for the Marine Commander? Link anyone?

ToBeAdvised · July 2013

ToBeAdvised wrote: »

Also is their a similar guide for the Marine Commander?

Whoops, I meant a similar guide for an ALIEN commander! lol.

hozz · July 2013

Hello, new player

Just keep in mind, while this guide is certainly nice, some things are outdated because the game (and especially Alien commanding) has been greatly overhauled a few weeks ago, in NS2 build 250.

For new information, I suggest to play a game alone to just try how things work. You can either use explore mode, or (better, because in explore upgrades will be researched from the start, which may be confusing) you
1. start your own server (play -> start server)
2. activate cheats
3. see how stuff works. preferably, don't cheat yourself money, use the income you naturally get. This helps you realize how important money flow is.
(look in the original post under sandbox game how to do those things)

Also, outside of rookie friendly servers, you should not command before you got an idea of how the game works, or people will hate you :P
Ask questions if you have some, people will be happy to help if they see you want to learn! good luck and have fun.

---

Because the Alien guide in post 2 is really outdated, here is a simple Alien starting build order. It's not very special, but generally works well for me.
I suggest you try it in sandbox mode to see how it works.

1. Right at the start, send 2 Drifters (build in Hive, they will build structures for you) to 2 different resource spots (usually the closest ones to your base on both sides, or 2 on the safe side of your base if the Marines are on the other side). If possible, do the same for a third resource spot (e.g. one in the center of the map if there is one)
2. cyst to these resource spots, use the Drifters to finish the cysts on the end of the cyst chain (there's a bug, Drifters will not auto build cysts). Wait until Infestation covers the resource spots.
3. build 2 (or 3 if you got a third spot) Harvesters there, the Drifters will automatically start building them
4. tell your team to defend the Harvesters! these are very important.
5. Next, upgrade the Hive. Crag Hive is always good choice.
6. When the Hive is upgraded, build an upgrade structure in your base (Shell when you went Crag Hive), you'll need another Drifter for that. Tell your team that they have an evolution now.
(6.5 if you have only 2 Harvesters, get a third one. money flow is important)
7. Build another upgrade structure
8. And build the 3rd upgrade structure for full upgrade power
9. Now, save your money for a second Hive (40 resources)
10. start the second Hive. send a Drifter to build it, and tell your team to defend it well
11. get another Harvester if you can
12. listen to your team what the want and need

Now you and your players have a great income flow from 4 Harvesters, a second Hive in construction, and your team has an evolution to help them in fight.
Now you can build support structures (Crag, Shift, Shade) to help your team and get further upgrades, upgrade the biomass in the Hive, and see how it goes on and your team can win the game.

The important thing is to defend the Harvesters, because it's a bit of a mass expand strategy, but if it works you'll have lots of money.

(short summary: 2 or 3 Harvesters, Hive evolution, upgrade structure 1+2+3 (optionally 3rd Harvesters after the first), save for Hive, and finally another Harvester

[225] - Commanding / Khammanding Tutorials

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