Stopping The Beacon

radforChrist

<div class="IPBDescription">OR the accidental recycling of my obs...</div>Hey guys, in NS1 you could beacon, then abort it by pressing the recycle button. Now, you still beacon, yet recycle the OBS.

Odd because the OBS is being recycled and beacon still works, and two sometimes the sound of the beacon chases away what you were beaconing for and you want to cancel.

Really it's because you devs moved the icons around and we keep beaconing early game instead of upgrading PG.

So, are we supposed to stop a beacon? Can we please?

Volcano

not as far as i know but there should be a way to stop it would be silly not to

Xarius

They should change the icons around again, I know I was confused the first time too.

MaximumSquid

<u><b>radforChrist:</b></u>

I think I'd be way happier if there was a way to cancel a beacon for just yourself as a marine player. . .

So many times I'm doing something way more useful when the beacon comes down when everyone gets pulled and we lose 2 rooms or something

radforChrist

Heh, and I know I beacon you guys a lot. When 60% of the team is meandering off somewhere useless, a good beacon gets us back on track.

Reubot

I think marines should also be able to beacon to enemy hives. Or maybe beacon the hive to marine base? mm bacon

TimMc

<!--quoteo(post=1999690:date=Oct 29 2012, 07:21 AM:name=MaximumSquid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaximumSquid @ Oct 29 2012, 07:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999690"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><u><b>radforChrist:</b></u>

I think I'd be way happier if there was a way to cancel a beacon for just yourself as a marine player. . .

So many times I'm doing something way more useful when the beacon comes down when everyone gets pulled and we lose 2 rooms or something<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No. Its a tactical decision for the marine commander to pull everyone home. His penalty is marines who were being productive somewhere else will be pulled out too.

If you gave marines power over it, then there would be no penalty to this ridiculously powerful ability.

Zek

I don't think you should be able to stop the beacon. That lets you abuse it to chase off aliens when you're not actually beaconing, and it confuses the marines who receive a notification and aren't actually beaconed.

Even when you can cancel something, it should never be done with the recycle button for exactly the reason you mentioned.

fanatic

<!--quoteo(post=1999833:date=Oct 29 2012, 04:18 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Oct 29 2012, 04:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999833"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think you should be able to stop the beacon. That lets you abuse it to chase off aliens when you're not actually beaconing, and it confuses the marines who receive a notification and aren't actually beaconed.

Even when you can cancel something, it should never be done with the recycle button for exactly the reason you mentioned.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This actually made for a good metagame in NS1, where the comm could trick aliens to abandon the baserush if they didn't keep their heads cool. Slightly lessened the efficacy of baserushes, which are far too powerful in NS2.

As for being confusing for the marines; the players aren't rats. They can think for themselves and learn from asking. How about we stop treating the players as morons and instead focus on making it a deep and engaging experience.

radforChrist

<!--quoteo(post=1999845:date=Oct 29 2012, 11:22 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Oct 29 2012, 11:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999845"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This actually made for a good metagame in NS1, where the comm could trick aliens to abandon the baserush if they didn't keep their heads cool. Slightly lessened the efficacy of baserushes, which are far too powerful in NS2.

As for being confusing for the marines; the players aren't rats. They can think for themselves and learn from asking. How about we stop treating the players as morons and instead focus on making it a deep and engaging experience.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

+1.

NS2 is for players who want to think. Let's give human capacity a little benefit here.

Zek

<!--quoteo(post=1999845:date=Oct 29 2012, 10:22 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Oct 29 2012, 10:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999845"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This actually made for a good metagame in NS1, where the comm could trick aliens to abandon the baserush if they didn't keep their heads cool. Slightly lessened the efficacy of baserushes, which are far too powerful in NS2.

As for being confusing for the marines; the players aren't rats. They can think for themselves and learn from asking. How about we stop treating the players as morons and instead focus on making it a deep and engaging experience.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Not sure what keeping a cool head has to do with it, there is no counter to a fake beacon. Either you run away and get tricked, or you stay in the base and die when the beacon happens. I think marines should have an incentive to stay on top of base defense without the beacon crutch being any better than it already is.

Volcano

after a bit for thought and a little more Dutch courage having the ability to stop beacons would not benefit the aliens in any since the most of the time they are trying to base race to inwhich forces the human comm to beacon forcing the front line marines out and give the aliens more breathing room for a limited time( since marines can buld phases on uncreeped land unlike aliens) b

arnyboy87

No way should you be able to cancel a beacon this is a very powerful tool and also currently the only way a defending alien team can try to get out of the hive, I think beacon is fine the way it is. If anything there should be a limit on how many you can have on the map ,,, maybe even just 1 would be the limit.

echs

Nice game last night Rad4Christ. :D

Mestaritonttu

<!--quoteo(post=1999861:date=Oct 29 2012, 06:43 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Oct 29 2012, 06:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999861"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not sure what keeping a cool head has to do with it, there is no counter to a fake beacon. Either you run away and get tricked, or you stay in the base and die when the beacon happens. I think marines should have an incentive to stay on top of base defense without the beacon crutch being any better than it already is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This lol, canceling beacons is no metagame, it's just spam. Defo no for canceling beacons. With current marine firepower that would mean every baserush is an all-in. That takes AWAY from the metagame instead of giving more.

TimMc

<!--quoteo(post=1999861:date=Oct 29 2012, 10:43 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Oct 29 2012, 10:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999861"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not sure what keeping a cool head has to do with it, there is no counter to a fake beacon. Either you run away and get tricked, or you stay in the base and die when the beacon happens. I think marines should have an incentive to stay on top of base defense without the beacon crutch being any better than it already is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

+1.

Price

I think Obs should also have a cooldown, like Nanoshield.
I saw last game a newbie but good commander hit the button twice, so he beaconed two times.
Happend to me one time too, because of the new gui.

ScardyBob

<!--quoteo(post=1999845:date=Oct 29 2012, 08:22 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Oct 29 2012, 08:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999845"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This actually made for a good metagame in NS1, where the comm could trick aliens to abandon the baserush if they didn't keep their heads cool. Slightly lessened the efficacy of baserushes, which are far too powerful in NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is a comparable, but different, metagame option with NS2 beacon, e.g. aliens rush a marine base to try to force a beacon to pull marines back from attacking a hive. I personally prefer that to the NS1 beacon since its more in the theme of RTS strategy metagame (i.e. baserush is alien backstab option and beacon is marine counter).

fanatic

<!--quoteo(post=1999861:date=Oct 29 2012, 04:43 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Oct 29 2012, 04:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999861"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not sure what keeping a cool head has to do with it, there is no counter to a fake beacon. Either you run away and get tricked, or you stay in the base and die when the beacon happens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know, considering the experience I have, at some point I would assume people would give me the benefit of the doubt when I say something. I guess not?

As for the importance of keeping your head cool: Players who panicked when they heard the beacon would either run away or steel themselves for the fight. Binary choice. Players who kept their heads cool, would instead back slightly out of base, so they would be in a position to run away if it turned out to be an actual beacon or re-engage if it was a fake. Non-binary choice. You could also make a judgement call; if you had experience with a commander previously always canceling the first beacon, you would know it was safe to stay. If the comm was smart enough, he would know that you knew and change his behaviour accordingly. Perhaps you even knew that he knew that you know?

That's meta game, gents. Forcing marines to beacon by sending some aliens to their base is not.

It could be made even more interesting by adding a slight cost to canceling the beacon, similar to recycling structures. Say canceling only gave you back 75% of the cost, for example.

Mestaritonttu

Meeh, forgot about the res cost entirely. Depends on the res cost - if it's expensive to beacon and you don't get all the res back from canceling, then yes, it adds to metagame - if it costs little to no res then it doesn't add anything to the metagame, comm just spams it as long as he can fool the aliens and then allows it to go thru.

<!--quoteo(post=2000059:date=Oct 29 2012, 10:12 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Oct 29 2012, 10:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000059"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, considering the experience I have, at some point I would assume people would give me the benefit of the doubt when I say something. I guess not?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Internet, bro.

Xarius

I wouldn't mind allowing commanders to cancel it, but it should still cost them the res when they do so to be honest. Fake beacons can be just as effective as real ones, so at the very least there needs to be some t.res cost involved.

+1 For more depth to the game, really.

Oh and bring back hive teleport kthx

Hugh

<!--quoteo(post=1999845:date=Oct 30 2012, 01:22 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Oct 30 2012, 01:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999845"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for being confusing for the marines; the players aren't rats. They can think for themselves and learn from asking. How about we stop treating the players as morons and instead focus on making it a deep and engaging experience.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Fana I love this line and don't you ever edit your post to remove it.

MzMz

just for the reference, in NS1, you DID lose res based on beacon activation time. Beacon costs 15 res and takes about
2 secs to actually bring back marines. So if you cancel right away, you would only lose 1 res. However, if you cancel
just before the progress bar hit the end, you would lose 14 res. So aliens also could out-smart the marine comm by
figuring out the length of the beacon sound and decide whether to stay or flee. Once again, NS1 had the answer.

ScardyBob

<!--quoteo(post=2000059:date=Oct 29 2012, 12:12 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Oct 29 2012, 12:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2000059"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's meta game, gents. Forcing marines to beacon by sending some aliens to their base is not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's still metagaming even if its not at the depth of NS right now. That depth of metagaming just takes time since you need to get to know both the details of the game mechanics and the experience of the other players/comms. I'm mostly a fan of the no-cancel beacon because its closer to the type of hard-counter RTS mechanics that NS/NS2 is sorely lacking.

xDragon

Ive always thought it strange how NS2 lets you cancel recycle at any time, but not beacon. I like a system which let you cancel the recycle for say 25% of the duration (for accidental recycles). Past that, you could no longer cancel it. As for beacon, i think it should be cancellable to an extent, but maybe it should follow the same rule (can cancel early, not later on).

radforChrist

In some ways, feigning a beacon is the type of meta game I miss from NS1.

I love NS2, lots. But vent chambers, weldables, and other things that allow more player based diversity is sorely missed.

My alien wish of similar thought is: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=122397" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=122397</a>

Reubot

<!--quoteo(post=1999900:date=Oct 29 2012, 07:31 PM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Oct 29 2012, 07:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1999900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This lol, canceling beacons is no metagame, it's just spam. Defo no for canceling beacons. With current marine firepower that would mean every baserush is an all-in. That takes AWAY from the metagame instead of giving more.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I agree. No childish waking with the beacon, but actually a serious decision to make in a tight spot.

Xarius

It's still a serious decision when there is a t.res cost associated to a cancelled beacon, let's keep it real with the arguments here.