<!--quoteo(post=2003013:date=Oct 31 2012, 01:48 PM:name=azurescorch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (azurescorch @ Oct 31 2012, 01:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003013"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Me and my two friends have an alien w:l ratio of 5:1 this week. Whilst there are some things that need to be addressed, you're wrong about how imbalanced it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By "this week", you mean since release?
Because I don't know if you knew this but... a lot of the marines have no idea what they're doing. Hardly a point to bring up to show whether or not things are balanced. In fact, your post would mean aliens are "OP".
<!--quoteo(post=2003065:date=Oct 31 2012, 08:08 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Oct 31 2012, 08:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003065"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->cause it would take too long quoting each and every post that cries about opinionated 'balance issues" when they just started playing the game 2 hrs ago<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's exactly why I wrote a long post on how to play it and why it initially may feel like aliens are a weak team. Spewing bile and contempt won't change any of their opinions. Explaining on the other hand, might make them think twice and try it again.
I realize you and I don't see this the same way though. Most importantly this isn't the thread for that kind of discussion. This thread is about whether aliens is underpowered and what you can do to achieve better results with the alien team.
<!--quoteo(post=2002963:date=Oct 31 2012, 09:21 AM:name=MunchySnacks1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunchySnacks1 @ Oct 31 2012, 09:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2002963"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't' know about the hive teleport back thing I think it would make aliens OP actually because they do move faster than marines. Sprint is a temporary effect and a normal vanilla skulk who knows how to ride the walls has no problem catching a sprinting marien not that they should be (should be setting up ambushes).
Crags do have an ability called healing wave that will do exactly what you are talking about the alien com however has to know to use it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hive teleporting is from NS1. Just use the hive to teleport to another Hive. It wasent OP in NS1 it will not be OP in NS2. Maps like Veil( NS1-map) are designed for that. Even with a leaping celerity-skulk , it takes way to much time to across the map from pipeline to sub.
Healing-wave.... seriously? Its expensive and weak(and never equal to an armory, what are you talking about ? ) .
Currently, crags are designed for low-hp lifeforms like skulks. So....that lifeform that dies most in direct-combat benefits most from a healing-station ? o_O .It needs only 1 shift only 1 shade but 5-10 crags for a reasonable effect? Thats just crude designing.
<!--quoteo(post=2003083:date=Oct 31 2012, 01:13 PM:name=MunchySnacks1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunchySnacks1 @ Oct 31 2012, 01:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003083"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->True but I think we need to help educate the new guys on how to play effectively I don't want to just see the player base bottom out because we didn't help or just came off as not caring.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i help team mates in game, when they actually care to learn. some of these responses are about kneejerk *op* not asking for tips. the OP assessment was mostly correct and he offered some good tips. 1.0 has been out less than a day, i dont think people should be offering tips on how to improve gameplay after less than a day.
This game is all strategy and teamwork. Regardless of release, that isn't going to change. If the marines rush hard and shoot well, it's pretty damn hard to beat them, even with fantastic teamwork from the alien side. But, if the aliens clean house early, they can keep the marines pushed into their COM area giving the gorge a chance to build.
Also, the marine side is more natural for people. It takes some time to learn how to bite :-)
The game is won and lost within the first 2 minutes. Who wipes out who first, who gets the building edge. I've always been a fan of the rush, regardless of side. Countless times i've been part of a wave of skulls that have wiped out the entire marine side and got to the COM before much was built, and vise versa.
And as always, if you new, stay off gorge and COM :-)
<!--quoteo(post=2002985:date=Oct 31 2012, 12:37 PM:name=ChickenOfWar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChickenOfWar @ Oct 31 2012, 12:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2002985"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The reason this analogy doesn't work is because in counter-strike there are two identical teams. Two teams that play the same way and have the same means of killing the other team. This is not the case in NS2, where the game is balanced asymmetrically.
It doesn't take a whole team to counter attack as the aliens. Two gorges with bile bomb working together can really decimate a marine base in seconds. Get on TS or something with a friend and coordinate that kind of stuff, it'll work wonders.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok lets see... I said: Can you imagine having a game-mode on counterstrike where<b> one team is melee, and the other team gets to use guns AND have double the health of the melee and the melee weapons do less DPS.</b>
Well since the above sentence is a fact, all you could really add is the melee team has smaller character models and can climb on walls.
If you look at NS2stats aliens seem to have always had 5-15% more losses than marines. On other competitive games if there was a team with 3% more win rate they would start looking at why, and how they could fix it.
<!--quoteo(post=2003240:date=Oct 31 2012, 08:46 PM:name=Mr.Greedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr.Greedy @ Oct 31 2012, 08:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003240"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hive teleporting is from NS1. Just use the hive to teleport to another Hive. It wasent OP in NS1 it will not be OP in NS2. Maps like Veil( NS1-map) are designed for that. Even with a leaping celerity-skulk , it takes way to much time to across the map from pipeline to sub.
Healing-wave.... seriously? Its expensive and weak(and never equal to an armory, what are you talking about ? ) .
Currently, crags are designed for low-hp lifeforms like skulks. So....that lifeform that dies most in direct-combat benefits most from a healing-station ? o_O .It needs only 1 shift only 1 shade but 5-10 crags for a reasonable effect? Thats just crude designing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont even know where to begin with your statement about celeirty and leap not beeing good enough to cross a map for defense. 1. Celeirty 2. Leap 3. WALL JUMP
Wall jumping will increase your mobility by ALOT, once you get good at it that is. Second of all, you cant think from your own perspective beeing a alone skulk against a marine team attacking a hive. The issue will probably be that the fact is, the rest of your team will hold them off because rushing a hive and taking it out with "ease" is usually only possible once the exo's are out on the field.
Second of all. Think about what the COMMANDER can do for you in order to prevent a hive rush by the marine team. Step one. Have a good commander that knows what a drifter is and what they can do for the team (Aka, buff aliens in combat but much more!) They provide: (LINE OF SIGHT) That means you can keep un' eye on the marine team as they move across the map if the commander deploys some really well placed drifters. (Hint, they're stealthed while not moving)
The most important note is when the commander spots the marines moving in on a vital position on the map, for example (The teams hive) or w/e - He can call out and tell people long before the marines can get there by either listening or seeing them with drifters. If you combind these factors you can prevent the so called "base rush" and give the team enough time to mount a proper defense.
NS2 doesn't need the hive teleport if everything goes according to plan which you cant expect them to do in public games, especially since most people will run around and do their own thing. But since public's are usually made up of randoms and especially now, where people are really new, they need time to learn the simple basic factors that are required in order to advance to the "next level" and they also need someone to guide them and once that is achived, you'll see a whole different out-come.
I also would like to stress the effectiveness off the alien form skulk! We all realize that they're good in early game but most people seem to fall under the idea that they suck later on, which isn't true. I'll give out a example of what a skulk can do in late game (I'm going to look at this from a team perspective)
First of all, the obvious thing comes to mind: They can take out marine RTS on the map, which is still VERY GOOD in late game. They can also help out in large team battles by jumping in and attacking key targets, such as the welders supporting the exo's and belive me, when there is ALOT of chaos going on, with two huge teams fighting in a room, you wont see it as simple as this "just shoot the skulks really fast and its gg" because most people will panic and things will happen really, REALLY fast.
Especially if there is a Onos running around in the heat of battle. Thats where skulks SHINE the most by attacking key targets and they can even really screw exo's over. Have you ever seen a 1v1 fight between a exo and a skulk?
My point is, its really hard to kill a skulk who knows how to dodge and run around a exo. They're the best life form for taking them out, with the expection of the onos which is a HUGE target and a battle between a lone exo and a onos is usually VERY even and dull.
I cant be arsed to continue stressing my opinion since thats what all of these posts really are. ((A call out to the general public)) The decision is yours - Either stay on the forums and cry about things beeing so unbalanced or overpowered, or try and learn how the game is played.
Don't forget, You need a decent commander for both sides... knowing your map and around it... your alien type or marines... know to be patient, focus and shoot...or bite and yes ceilings and what not.
New players have it hard, im having a hard time but the OP did mention a key point Team play. Now a days everyone want s to be that badass lone wolf solo player. Not happening in this.
Anyways before balancing and what not, i would really like for some in game fixes like graphs, fps , clipping, UI. This should be addressed first before any balance.
Skulk is awesome, IMO. Along with about 2 other skulks, we defended/supported a fade, causing extreme amounts of damage to the marines. We then split off from the fade and started harassing unattended power/resource nodes. I'm rusty now, its been so long, but i guarantee that skulk is not at all useless.
Yeah, not been having trouble as skulk. What I find is that most players are just terrible at skulk. Running head-on at marines, terrible ability at forcing marines to waste bullets, not knowing when to finally dive in just prior to a reload.
There's a <b>lot</b> of bad skulks out there who try to play them the exact same way they play marine. Not their fault, all you can do is educate.
<!--quoteo(post=2003540:date=Oct 31 2012, 03:39 PM:name=Davil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Davil @ Oct 31 2012, 03:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003540"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->give it a month all you naysayers. Once all the newbie marines figure out how to shoot correctly, you'll change your tunes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha seriously. Clearly all these new players are instant experts and already found the secret to aliens that us beta players missed... Thats why Alien win percentage was 45 and Marines 55...
Comments
By "this week", you mean since release?
Because I don't know if you knew this but... a lot of the marines have no idea what they're doing. Hardly a point to bring up to show whether or not things are balanced. In fact, your post would mean aliens are "OP".
That's exactly why I wrote a long post on how to play it and why it initially may feel like aliens are a weak team.
Spewing bile and contempt won't change any of their opinions. Explaining on the other hand, might make them think twice and try it again.
I realize you and I don't see this the same way though.
Most importantly this isn't the thread for that kind of discussion.
This thread is about whether aliens is underpowered and what you can do to achieve better results with the alien team.
Crags do have an ability called healing wave that will do exactly what you are talking about the alien com however has to know to use it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hive teleporting is from NS1. Just use the hive to teleport to another Hive. It wasent OP in NS1 it will not be OP in NS2. Maps like Veil( NS1-map) are designed for that. Even with a leaping celerity-skulk , it takes way to much time to across the map from pipeline to sub.
Healing-wave.... seriously? Its expensive and weak(and never equal to an armory, what are you talking about ? ) .
Currently, crags are designed for low-hp lifeforms like skulks. So....that lifeform that dies most in direct-combat benefits most from a healing-station ? o_O .It needs only 1 shift only 1 shade but 5-10 crags for a reasonable effect? Thats just crude designing.
i help team mates in game, when they actually care to learn. some of these responses are about kneejerk *op* not asking for tips. the OP assessment was mostly correct and he offered some good tips. 1.0 has been out less than a day, i dont think people should be offering tips on how to improve gameplay after less than a day.
Also, the marine side is more natural for people. It takes some time to learn how to bite :-)
The game is won and lost within the first 2 minutes. Who wipes out who first, who gets the building edge. I've always been a fan of the rush, regardless of side. Countless times i've been part of a wave of skulls that have wiped out the entire marine side and got to the COM before much was built, and vise versa.
And as always, if you new, stay off gorge and COM :-)
It doesn't take a whole team to counter attack as the aliens. Two gorges with bile bomb working together can really decimate a marine base in seconds. Get on TS or something with a friend and coordinate that kind of stuff, it'll work wonders.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok lets see...
I said:
Can you imagine having a game-mode on counterstrike where<b> one team is melee, and the other team gets to use guns AND have double the health of the melee and the melee weapons do less DPS.</b>
Well since the above sentence is a fact, all you could really add is the melee team has smaller character models and can climb on walls.
If you look at NS2stats aliens seem to have always had 5-15% more losses than marines.
On other competitive games if there was a team with 3% more win rate they would start looking at why, and how they could fix it.
Healing-wave.... seriously? Its expensive and weak(and never equal to an armory, what are you talking about ? ) .
Currently, crags are designed for low-hp lifeforms like skulks. So....that lifeform that dies most in direct-combat benefits most from a healing-station ? o_O .It needs only 1 shift only 1 shade but 5-10 crags for a reasonable effect? Thats just crude designing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont even know where to begin with your statement about celeirty and leap not beeing good enough to cross a map for defense.
1. Celeirty
2. Leap
3. WALL JUMP
Wall jumping will increase your mobility by ALOT, once you get good at it that is.
Second of all, you cant think from your own perspective beeing a alone skulk against a marine team attacking a hive.
The issue will probably be that the fact is, the rest of your team will hold them off because rushing a hive and taking it out with "ease" is usually only possible once the exo's are out on the field.
Second of all. Think about what the COMMANDER can do for you in order to prevent a hive rush by the marine team.
Step one. Have a good commander that knows what a drifter is and what they can do for the team (Aka, buff aliens in combat but much more!) They provide: (LINE OF SIGHT)
That means you can keep un' eye on the marine team as they move across the map if the commander deploys some really well placed drifters. (Hint, they're stealthed while not moving)
The most important note is when the commander spots the marines moving in on a vital position on the map, for example (The teams hive) or w/e - He can call out and tell people long before the marines can get there by either listening or seeing them with drifters. If you combind these factors you can prevent the so called "base rush" and give the team enough time to mount a proper defense.
NS2 doesn't need the hive teleport if everything goes according to plan which you cant expect them to do in public games, especially since most people will run around and do their own thing. But since public's are usually made up of randoms and especially now, where people are really new, they need time to learn the simple basic factors that are required in order to advance to the "next level" and they also need someone to guide them and once that is achived, you'll see a whole different out-come.
I also would like to stress the effectiveness off the alien form skulk!
We all realize that they're good in early game but most people seem to fall under the idea that they suck later on, which isn't true.
I'll give out a example of what a skulk can do in late game (I'm going to look at this from a team perspective)
First of all, the obvious thing comes to mind: They can take out marine RTS on the map, which is still VERY GOOD in late game.
They can also help out in large team battles by jumping in and attacking key targets, such as the welders supporting the exo's and belive me, when there is ALOT of chaos going on, with two huge teams fighting in a room, you wont see it as simple as this "just shoot the skulks really fast and its gg" because most people will panic and things will happen really, REALLY fast.
Especially if there is a Onos running around in the heat of battle. Thats where skulks SHINE the most by attacking key targets and they can even really screw exo's over.
Have you ever seen a 1v1 fight between a exo and a skulk?
My point is, its really hard to kill a skulk who knows how to dodge and run around a exo. They're the best life form for taking them out, with the expection of the onos which is a HUGE target and a battle between a lone exo and a onos is usually VERY even and dull.
I cant be arsed to continue stressing my opinion since thats what all of these posts really are. ((A call out to the general public)) The decision is yours - Either stay on the forums and cry about things beeing so unbalanced or overpowered, or try and learn how the game is played.
Thanks for taking your time to read my post.
New players have it hard, im having a hard time but the OP did mention a key point Team play. Now a days everyone want s to be that badass lone wolf solo player. Not happening in this.
Anyways before balancing and what not, i would really like for some in game fixes like graphs, fps , clipping, UI. This should be addressed first before any balance.
There's a <b>lot</b> of bad skulks out there who try to play them the exact same way they play marine. Not their fault, all you can do is educate.
Haha seriously. Clearly all these new players are instant experts and already found the secret to aliens that us beta players missed... Thats why Alien win percentage was 45 and Marines 55...