To much things are still badly thought-out in NS2
Mr.Greedy
Join Date: 2012-07-21 Member: 154270Members
Join Date: 2012-07-21 Member: 154270Members
That gamedesigning is killing me sometimes.(do u remember : sentry,only effective vs structures o_O?) Just some current examples:
Stomp:
Tier 3? Why? Tier 3 means 3 hives and lategame. Its useless vs exos/JPs and less effective vs turtling marines.
Xenocide:
This is still a fun-ability. Its way to weak and needs a rework. I would change that in a passive-ability -> exploding on death. Thats would be a real
upgrade with an reasonable effect on the lategame.
mobility:
Mobility is not an alien-advantage. They need hive-teleporting back. Maps like Veil( NS1-map) are designed for that. Even with a leaping celerity-skulk , it takes way to much time to across the map from pipeline to sub.
Crags:
Currently, crags are designed for low-hp lifeforms like skulks. So....that lifeform that dies most in direct-combat benefits most from a healing-station ? o_O .
It needs only 1 shift only 1 shade but 5-10 crags for a reasonable effect? Set Crags to be percentage-based and non-stacking. (this would also increase the server-performance a bit)
Flamethrowers:
Can anyone explain me the usefullnes of the flamethrower? I am laughing every time if someone buy this wpn and tried to kill me. Or is someone wasting 25 res to kill cysts faster o_O?
Scoreboard:
Some people dont care this. Most players do.Why weve got a score? It displays your combat-effectivity right? Why in hell weve got such an inaccurate scoreboard-system? Some examples: Crushing enemy RTs as a skulk is boring. And its a bit anoying if u spend your time to bring down a RT to 10 % and a random skulk comming and grab the points after 2-3 bites. Last hit = u get the points o_O .Same for kills. Same for building structures. Healing/welding dont bring points. Man. It feels like quake 3 Arena.
Welcome in 2012.
Commander/khammander-GUI:
From the RTS-view, the Commander-GUI is out of the question bad designed. "khammander,we have lost xxx-upgrade". Why we are hearing those words in most games?
Its a shame that a player get the information of a losing upgrade before the commander does. To search and check all evolutionchambers all 3 minutes on minimap is not a solution :>. Just display all researched evolutions on screen.
I want a permanent list of all marines or alien-players on my screen (for me on right side) with informations about Playername, HP/Armor, Ammo/Energy, Location, Status( like "in fight" "following order" "respawning" etc. ), Weapon/Lifeform, Equipment/Evolutions, an icon if the player says something in voice(or the playerbar is highlighting), an icon if a player yells for "need ammo/medpack/order".
Thats are informations that the RTS-part badly needs. Well, UWE implented the mod "insight" to the game. I was so happy...but then ---> for spectators only (WTF!). The comms need all those infos UWE. Wake up.
Evolutions:
It takes much time to respawn as an alien and you have to wait. What happend when u are alive? U have to wait again because the upgrademenu is avaible now. Your upgrade-decision is done. What happend now?
Yeahhh right. More waiting! Thats soooo much fun. Waiting is cool! UWE should implement elevator-music for aliens :>. Seriously. Wouldnt it be much better to choose upgrades while dead?
Ok. Some points like stomp are arguable. But you dont need to be a rocket-scientist to notice, in a few seconds, that some of the mentioned points are just realy bad designed. I dont know why UWE designed some points like that but it realy pissed me of, because it dont have to be like that and some easy changes would increase the gameing-experience of NS2 alot.
Stomp:
Tier 3? Why? Tier 3 means 3 hives and lategame. Its useless vs exos/JPs and less effective vs turtling marines.
Xenocide:
This is still a fun-ability. Its way to weak and needs a rework. I would change that in a passive-ability -> exploding on death. Thats would be a real
upgrade with an reasonable effect on the lategame.
mobility:
Mobility is not an alien-advantage. They need hive-teleporting back. Maps like Veil( NS1-map) are designed for that. Even with a leaping celerity-skulk , it takes way to much time to across the map from pipeline to sub.
Crags:
Currently, crags are designed for low-hp lifeforms like skulks. So....that lifeform that dies most in direct-combat benefits most from a healing-station ? o_O .
It needs only 1 shift only 1 shade but 5-10 crags for a reasonable effect? Set Crags to be percentage-based and non-stacking. (this would also increase the server-performance a bit)
Flamethrowers:
Can anyone explain me the usefullnes of the flamethrower? I am laughing every time if someone buy this wpn and tried to kill me. Or is someone wasting 25 res to kill cysts faster o_O?
Scoreboard:
Some people dont care this. Most players do.Why weve got a score? It displays your combat-effectivity right? Why in hell weve got such an inaccurate scoreboard-system? Some examples: Crushing enemy RTs as a skulk is boring. And its a bit anoying if u spend your time to bring down a RT to 10 % and a random skulk comming and grab the points after 2-3 bites. Last hit = u get the points o_O .Same for kills. Same for building structures. Healing/welding dont bring points. Man. It feels like quake 3 Arena.
Welcome in 2012.
Commander/khammander-GUI:
From the RTS-view, the Commander-GUI is out of the question bad designed. "khammander,we have lost xxx-upgrade". Why we are hearing those words in most games?
Its a shame that a player get the information of a losing upgrade before the commander does. To search and check all evolutionchambers all 3 minutes on minimap is not a solution :>. Just display all researched evolutions on screen.
I want a permanent list of all marines or alien-players on my screen (for me on right side) with informations about Playername, HP/Armor, Ammo/Energy, Location, Status( like "in fight" "following order" "respawning" etc. ), Weapon/Lifeform, Equipment/Evolutions, an icon if the player says something in voice(or the playerbar is highlighting), an icon if a player yells for "need ammo/medpack/order".
Thats are informations that the RTS-part badly needs. Well, UWE implented the mod "insight" to the game. I was so happy...but then ---> for spectators only (WTF!). The comms need all those infos UWE. Wake up.
Evolutions:
It takes much time to respawn as an alien and you have to wait. What happend when u are alive? U have to wait again because the upgrademenu is avaible now. Your upgrade-decision is done. What happend now?
Yeahhh right. More waiting! Thats soooo much fun. Waiting is cool! UWE should implement elevator-music for aliens :>. Seriously. Wouldnt it be much better to choose upgrades while dead?
Ok. Some points like stomp are arguable. But you dont need to be a rocket-scientist to notice, in a few seconds, that some of the mentioned points are just realy bad designed. I dont know why UWE designed some points like that but it realy pissed me of, because it dont have to be like that and some easy changes would increase the gameing-experience of NS2 alot.
Comments
the fact that it can be modded, is wonderful! remember that NS1 was a mod for HalfLife!
if all skulks xenocided immediately upon death, there would be no incentive to play smart, you should just zerg and die.
maps are small, and except for a few exceptions its really quick for all lifeforms to get from one hive to another. Plus you can use shifts and drop eggs to make additional spawn locations to speed up recovery to a certain location.
crags aren't meant to be a super healer, they are supposed to be worked in tandem with other structures, like a hive, other crags, or a Gorge. I agree they could use a buff, but nothing too drastic.
flamethrowers are situational. if you have one person with a flamer with 4 other guys, its really useful as it kills alien energy and destroys cysts and infestation fast, not to mention damage.
Score is an encouragement to show how useful a player you are. I often lead the team in score, but not necessarily in kills, because I focus on enemy RTs, important cysts (not every cyst dear lord), enemy structures, power nodes (not every power node, dear lord). I find that this contribution is sometimes more important to the team than getting lots of kills.
As for GUI, you are on your own.
As for evolutions, spawning can be increased with more eggs, but yes sometimes it is slow. upgrading doesn't take too long, and if you are upgrading lifeforms, the commander can "mist" your egg to make your egg time cut in half.
<!--quoteo(post=2003480:date=Oct 31 2012, 02:58 PM:name=GirTurkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GirTurkey @ Oct 31 2012, 02:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003480"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if all skulks xenocided immediately upon death, there would be no incentive to play smart, you should just zerg and die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The current xenocide is trying to force you to do what? :>
Its like to say "armor/wpn-dmg upgrades would be no incentive to play smart".
As for xenocide, I think it just needs to do more dmg. The ability itself is fine but by the time you get it, marines have A3 and xenocide is useless.
Blink is too important for the Fade to make it a separate research.
Shadowstep is a nice addition that works well as an upgrade.
Btw, I hadn't played Fade in a while, but the delay on Shadowstep felt terribly long.
Add the resource-model to the list:
- fighting (and risking your life) leads to slower ResFlow (no res while dead)
EDIT: But show some love nonetheless :p
well it might not be that fun to wait, but I'd like to think about it like this:
should I spend the time and find a safe place to evolve, or should I use my current lifeform as it is to aid my teammates?
They put the spawn timer there to even it out.
In the early beta the aliens just kept rushing since they practically had no spawn timer.
But once you get two hives you spawn in pretty quickly anyways :)
And ignored plenty too.
Seriously. You might as well wait for a balance mod, because the most logical balance changes don't ever happen for some reason.
Stomp:
Tier 3? Why? Tier 3 means 3 hives and lategame. Its useless vs exos/JPs and less effective vs turtling marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think onos really need it either way
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Xenocide:
This is still a fun-ability. Its way to weak and needs a rework. I would change that in a passive-ability -> exploding on death. Thats would be a real
upgrade with an reasonable effect on the lategame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I completely agree with this. I can't think of a use for xenocide. I tried it like 10 times and only managed to get 1 kill.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->mobility:
Mobility is not an alien-advantage. They need hive-teleporting back. Maps like Veil( NS1-map) are designed for that. Even with a leaping celerity-skulk , it takes way to much time to across the map from pipeline to sub.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok, in this case I think you're potentially wrong. Mobility doesn't NEED to be an alien advantage. Aliens in NS2 ARE the immobile force, or at least they're immobile in the sense that the more concerted an effort you spend on one location in the map the harder time aliens have with dealing with it. Marines can get to any given established place faster than aliens, however, aliens can get to any place that is not established faster than marines. Aliens have map control, marines are positional. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's just a design aspect.
However, from a players perspective. I did PREFER being able to teleport to the location of the closest action when I was playing aliens. I preferred being able to be in the fight sooner, rather than having to walk there first.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Crags:
Currently, crags are designed for low-hp lifeforms like skulks. So....that lifeform that dies most in direct-combat benefits most from a healing-station ? o_O .
It needs only 1 shift only 1 shade but 5-10 crags for a reasonable effect? Set Crags to be percentage-based and non-stacking. (this would also increase the server-performance a bit)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreedish. Arguably, crags are for gorges, not for lifeforms. They're a thing that gives aliens a positional advantage on the map if you've got someone there to babysit them.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Flamethrowers:
Can anyone explain me the usefullnes of the flamethrower? I am laughing every time if someone buy this wpn and tried to kill me. Or is someone wasting 25 res to kill cysts faster o_O?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->As I understand it, when an alien is hit with a flamethrower it's energy recharge decreases signifigantly. This being the case, flamethrower is a support weapon. They make it difficult for fades to displace a middle game army, as if a fade gets hit is cannot any longer choose to both do damage and escape, it is put in a "one or the other" situation. and they make the middle game army more effective against structural encampments (they kill all structures pretty quickly). They won't be amazing in the late game when exo suits are around, because GL's are a better weapon for cleaning skulks off your feet, and exo's are a better weapon for killing high teir lifeforms. They also won't be useful on a rambo, they just aren't good enough at doing damage. Put one in a team of 2-3 other light marines in the mid game and you have a low cost and highly damaging push team though that can pressure an undefended hive or hunt res nodes.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Scoreboard:
Some people dont care this. Most players do.Why weve got a score? It displays your combat-effectivity right? Why in hell weve got such an inaccurate scoreboard-system? Some examples: Crushing enemy RTs as a skulk is boring. And its a bit anoying if u spend your time to bring down a RT to 10 % and a random skulk comming and grab the points after 2-3 bites. Last hit = u get the points o_O .Same for kills. Same for building structures. Healing/welding dont bring points. Man. It feels like quake 3 Arena.
Welcome in 2012.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I agree. At the same time though, I think the score is a step in the right direction. I like the numbers that scroll up as you bite a res node. I think they should really roll that into game score. My gamescore ranking seems to be very inconsistent as aliens for example, and I'm not exactly sure why.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Commander/khammander-GUI:
From the RTS-view, the Commander-GUI is out of the question bad designed. "khammander,we have lost xxx-upgrade". Why we are hearing those words in most games?
Its a shame that a player get the information of a losing upgrade before the commander does. To search and check all evolutionchambers all 3 minutes on minimap is not a solution :>. Just display all researched evolutions on screen.
I want a permanent list of all marines or alien-players on my screen (for me on right side) with informations about Playername, HP/Armor, Ammo/Energy, Location, Status( like "in fight" "following order" "respawning" etc. ), Weapon/Lifeform, Equipment/Evolutions, an icon if the player says something in voice(or the playerbar is highlighting), an icon if a player yells for "need ammo/medpack/order".
Thats are informations that the RTS-part badly needs. Well, UWE implented the mod "insight" to the game. I was so happy...but then ---> for spectators only (WTF!). The comms need all those infos UWE. Wake up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you're a bit overeager in terms of what's plausible, and you're suggesting a bit too much onscreen clutter... but in general I agree with you. Certain very important pieces of information can be very difficult to discern while commanding.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Evolutions:
It takes much time to respawn as an alien and you have to wait. What happend if u are alive? U have to wait again because the upgrademenu is avaible now. Your upgrade-decision is done. What happend now?
Yeahhh right. More waiting! Thats soooo much fun. Waiting is cool! UWE should implement elevator-music for aliens :>. Seriously. Wouldnt it be much better to choose upgrades while dead?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The waiting isn't QUITE that bad... but I see what you're getting at.
I'm not sure this is as much badly designed as it is unfinished. There was a minigame in the metagame of NS1, if you could time things right, if you could predict well enough what was going on on the alien team, then you could send marines into the hive while the fade or onos was evolving and kill the egg in process. However, this system in NS1, while nice, was very unpolished. Aliens would counter this mechanic by evolving on top of the hive (or in a vent somewhere) which further made marines have to come up with weird new ways to identify where important lifeforms were evolving to get to them before they hatched. In NS2 we see the first step towards a real sensible solution being made around this. You can't hide your lifeform eggs so much any more... all eggs are spawning around the floor of the hive at all times. However, it's not quite finished yet. At this point it's really hard for a marine to know when is a good time to shoot an egg, and when it's a waste of time. At the same time, it's very hard to guess which egg you should be shooting. It feels random, complicated, and unneeded in it's current state. That being said, I'm not sure it's unfixable. I think there's some way this can be done such that it's sufficiently transparent on the marines side what they should be doing about eggs, and likewise sufficiently fair to aliens to the point where it's not consistently frustrating if their team is playing properly.
I don't consider your argument about waiting for upgrades real, because realistically, most of the time you spend more time choosing your upgrade than you do actually waiting for it. The evolution for an upgrade is like 2 seconds. It's just a visual thing in the game so you see there's some science and backstory behind aliens getting new abilities.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok. Some points like stomp are arguable. But you dont need to be a rocket-scientist to notice, in a few seconds, that some of the mentioned points are just realy bad designed. I dont know why UWE designed some points like that but it realy pissed me of, because it dont have to be like that and some easy changes would increase the gameing-experience of NS2 alot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd offset this however with the claim that a lot of things are VERY nicely designed about NS2. Some very cool choices and decisions have been made to bring this game out of the shadow of it's predicessor. Additionally, I think you're wrong, most of these things are less "badly designed" as they are good designs that aren't polished yet. The flame thrower doesn't quite "work" yet, but it's not necessarily a bad idea, or something without any place in NS. Xenosplode maybe is badly designed, but to be fair, that isn't really an NS2 thing. That ability comes from NS1. Likewise, maybe it DOES fit somewhere, it just doesn't really fit where it is right now. Stomp I REALLY like where it is. It's supposed to be an ability to help you end a game that's already over. It's not supposed to give you an advantage in the ungodly clash of T3 armies, it's supposed to help you clean up a base that's wearkly defended. The design is very good for stomp! I think it's very short sighted to say that NS2 is a badly designed game. I'll definitely agree with you though, that there are things that still really need tweaking.
The score system needs to be rethought though to be honest. If 3 skulks start munching on a structure at once, is it fair that only one gets the points? Even if that one showed up late and only munched on it twice?
Currently going as a gorge is punishing score wise too.
"hehe that's a sneaky phase gate.. 80%, 90% let's get ready for the beacon. hu? doesn't work, ho sheet no power! where is this freaking power node? ho it's in the hive room, let's hope they don't see me building it..."
"hey commander the armory has no power! .. drop a new one"
"ho no, the power node is destroyed, well only 2 minutes pressing E, it's not so bad"
Blink is too important for the Fade to make it a separate research.
Shadowstep is a nice addition that works well as an upgrade.
Btw, I hadn't played Fade in a while, but the delay on Shadowstep felt terribly long.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
Part of the reason why onos egg is so standard.
Only things I disagree with is crags and flamers. Crags are good for lower lifeforms, but so it stands to reason you should invest in more to support more expensive lifeforms. It costs more for marines to support an exo, for example.
Flamers are extremely good anti-cyst which causes whips to unroot, and disable grenade reflection from whips. Basically they are anti-whip. As commander I get so annoyed and constantly having to recyst when a flamer appears, and seeing 150 res worth of whips do nothing.
Both otherwise:
- Stomp should be teir 2.
- Xenocide needs to be buffed or reworked. If they don't want a damage buff, make it knock down marines.
- Mobility is something aliens need alot more of.
- Score is pretty meaningless.
- Commander GUI has become nicer looking, but is so annoying. I don't know when things are under attack, I cannot see what upgrades are done, and it constantly gives structure suggestions that make no sense and cause accidental buildings.
- You should be able to spawn with upgrades. I get sick of dying from having no upgrades during a rush. However evolutions should always take time, since the upgrade is quite a hefty buff. I would say the problem is that marines can swap out advanced equipment instantly - exo's should have a similar evolution time so people don't jump into them in response to attacks. Aliens cannot evolve if people are in the base.
Also, flamethrowers are underrated imo, they hurt energy regen quite a bit, and they're outright great vs structures as well. (Not to mention they get rid of pesky spores) Though you really don't want more than one on the team, and they're probably a bit too pricey for what they do.
One newbie said 'god, I'm tired of biting 5 times and get no kill'.
Don't know why Focus never has been implemented, it's so important.
I can't even read the OP, it's barely English.
No one is thinking this through. Stomp at teir 3 is BRILLIANT! It's exactly the right place for it!
One of the long standing problems with NS is you get to this late game turtle situation where marines can just sit in their base forever. They're not strong enough to move out, but because of the defensive strength of marines and their positional play style it's really hard to kill them off as well. When I think about Tier 3 abilities, I think of skills that are strong enough to give aliens the "oomph" they need to end the game, but not so strong that if marines still have a chance of a comeback all of a sudden their position is hopeless. That's EXACTLY why stomp works so well at tier 3.
Stomp doesn't stun jetpacks, it doesn't knock over exos, it doesn't take away the ability of a very well equipped marine team to be deadly. So what does it do? It makes light marines weaker than they normally would be! And that's exactly the one thing you need in the late game. You need abilities that disable the marines turtling in on their base when they really don't have the resources to sustain a defense!
Having stomp at tier 3 allows the onos to be balanced as the utter beast it's supposed to be in tier 1-2. It means it can be balanced to be strong at hive 1, as opposed to how it was in NS where the onos was ###### at hive 1 because it had this godly ability at Tier 2 that was SOOOO good at disabling small groups of light marines. It was too strong at tier 2 before, and the whole life form hitpoints and armor had to be decreased to accommodate for that.
Having stomp at Teir 3 fixes everything. It puts things in exactly the right order. It gives onos the strong offensive siege ability precisely when they need to have an offensive siege ability. It makes it dangerous to bunch up as marines precisely when you don't want marines to bunch up in the flow of the game any more. It's REALLY good design.
Saying it should be two tier 2 is just nostalgia. It doesn't fit well there.
One of the long standing problems with NS is you get to this late game turtle situation where marines can just sit in their base forever. They're not strong enough to move out, but because of the defensive strength of marines and their positional play style it's really hard to kill them off as well. When I think about Tier 3 abilities, I think of skills that are strong enough to give aliens the "oomph" they need to end the game, but not so strong that if marines still have a chance of a comeback all of a sudden their position is hopeless. That's EXACTLY why stomp works so well at tier 3.
Stomp doesn't stun jetpacks, it doesn't knock over exos, it doesn't take away the ability of a very well equipped marine team to be deadly. So what does it do? It makes light marines weaker than they normally would be! And that's exactly the one thing you need in the late game. You need abilities that disable the marines turtling in on their base when they really don't have the resources to sustain a defense!
Having stomp at tier 3 allows the onos to be balanced as the utter beast it's supposed to be in tier 1-2. It means it can be balanced to be strong at hive 1, as opposed to how it was in NS where the onos was ###### at hive 1 because it had this godly ability at Tier 2 that was SOOOO good at disabling small groups of light marines. It was too strong at tier 2 before, and the whole life form hitpoints and armor had to be decreased to accommodate for that.
Having stomp at Teir 3 fixes everything. It puts things in exactly the right order. It gives onos the strong offensive siege ability precisely when they need to have an offensive siege ability. It makes it dangerous to bunch up as marines precisely when you don't want marines to bunch up in the flow of the game any more. It's REALLY good design.
Saying it should be two tier 2 is just nostalgia. It doesn't fit well there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you think having stomp at a time that is useless because late in the game when marines have jetpacks and exo's that makes it "brilliant?" This is either the biggest troll I've ever seen in my 10 years of visiting this forum or you are a complete nutjob lol
There is something wrong when exo dies no problem, but shotgun marine does not lol.
Onos needs some fun ability, maybe it could have a few abilites where you can only pick one. would be hilarious if onos had a fart like ability to obscure vision, so it runs into a room, foggy everything up.
wasnt there something about onos being able to eat marines, whatever happened to that?!?! that would be freaking awesome.
So you think having stomp at a time that is useless because late in the game when marines have jetpacks and exo's that makes it "brilliant?" This is either the biggest troll I've ever seen in my 10 years of visiting this forum or you are a complete nutjob lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you need to look at what you're saying yourself before you spew out things like that.
Personally, I agree fully with everything SwiftSpear said about the Onos and stomp. Having stomp in tier2 would completelly break the balance in NS2.
Early onos is powerful enough as it is, with stomp it would be plain crazy.
Have you even used stomp? I feel like people who wants tier 2 stomp either don't know how to play onos or have never faced a good one.
Stomp is a monstrous ability. Being able to knock down a full group of marines in a game like this is enormous. The difference between 3-5 marines firing on you
with their LMGs and trying to dodge as much as they can and the same amount of marines trying to do the same thing only now at least 2-3 of them are lying flat
on the ground waiting to die is enormous.
What both you and the thread maker seem to think is that tier 3 means everyone on marine team has either jetpacks or exos.
This just isn't the case. It might be true for some moments of tier 3 but most of the time there are a bunch of marines running around without jetpacks.
Do I even have to mention that jetpackers eventually have to land and that most rooms in NS2 doesn't have high ceilings so it won't be a problem anyway?
As SwiftSpear mentioned this ability is amazing for thinning out the herd of marines in a swift and decisive manner.
You can kill off the marines without jackpacks (which will be quite a few most of the time) with ease.
After mapchange, some games start with only 1/4 - 1/2 players. The rest are still connecting to the server. A longer cooldown would be nice until the game can start.
<!--quoteo(post=2003688:date=Oct 31 2012, 05:13 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Oct 31 2012, 05:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2003688"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't even read the OP, it's barely English.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha :D. Your statement + your picture fits perfectly. I am missing a monocle and top hat. Yes, my english is bad. Dont be a Snob ;) . (plz tell me you are british!)
Flamers are extremely good anti-cyst which causes whips to unroot, and disable grenade reflection from whips. Basically they are anti-whip. As commander I get so annoyed and constantly having to recyst when a flamer appears, and seeing 150 res worth of whips do nothing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I totally have to disagree...
Not to be offensive but 150 res of whips... are you mad?
Considering they don't knock back grenades anymore placing 150 res of them is a
failure on the commanders part not a success of the flame thrower...
And crags... It costs 90 res for them to be viable, not to mention due to them only working if you put them ontop of each other a single grenade volly kills them ALL. It should not cost more res than an onos, to heal an onos.
---
Currently my beef is that ALL structures (except shift) serve no use or are too damn expensive unless you are totally dominating the game as well as this due to fade being seriously under powered it means the khamm just ends up spamming onos eggs after all upgrades are done.
Personally, I agree fully with everything SwiftSpear said about the Onos and stomp. Having stomp in tier2 would completelly break the balance in NS2.
Early onos is powerful enough as it is, with stomp it would be plain crazy.
Have you even used stomp? I feel like people who wants tier 2 stomp either don't know how to play onos or have never faced a good one.
Stomp is a monstrous ability. Being able to knock down a full group of marines in a game like this is enormous. The difference between 3-5 marines firing on you
with their LMGs and trying to dodge as much as they can and the same amount of marines trying to do the same thing only now at least 2-3 of them are lying flat
on the ground waiting to die is enormous.
What both you and the thread maker seem to think is that tier 3 means everyone on marine team has either jetpacks or exos.
This just isn't the case. It might be true for some moments of tier 3 but most of the time there are a bunch of marines running around without jetpacks.
Do I even have to mention that jetpackers eventually have to land and that most rooms in NS2 doesn't have high ceilings so it won't be a problem anyway?
As SwiftSpear mentioned this ability is amazing for thinning out the herd of marines in a swift and decisive manner.
You can kill off the marines without jackpacks (which will be quite a few most of the time) with ease.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Onos costing as many resources as it does to evolve into means it <b>should</b> be a powerful class able to deal with a group of marines.
2. There is a counter to stomp, don't cluster up in a group or move to higher ground.
3. Stomp is so delayed because of the long animation time, 2 should not be that hard (I manage to avoid it just fine).
How many players have you seen playing onos without stomp are being effective at anything other than killing off a stray lone marine? Watch some tournament play, there are so many ways to counter an onos right now your resources are better spent on fades. Without stomp the only thing an onos is good at is soaking damage and running away.
Or just jump at the right time, stomp is incredibly easy to avoid. I reckon most marines don't know about this though.
Flame thrower is great as support for machine guns. you light up the aliens and they become easy to spot for your team mates. The game is new to many people so they will take a few days to start to use the upgrades in a more supportive role.
Gorge should take a more active role as a support unit during alien advances. So many time have there been failed pushes because no one will take a gorge to heal Onos and Fades at the front lines. Oh well it will come with time. I think people should just give it a few more days and try to adapt to the classes play style and work towards team victory. I do think however that a few more scoring incentives will help reward players who take on the supportive roles.
(Been playing through Beta and I must say I am having the most fun in this game now since the release. Nice job UW)