my impressions
skanny
Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165575Members
Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165575Members
firstly let me say i played the original NS for ages and loved it to death but ....
NS2 fails badly for me.
CONS:
Ns2 feels as if it has been so dumbed down so much its like playing a console game for little kids now.
skulks with their leap feels sooo weak, onos with their one button wins all, same goes for fade... was this intended? cos if it is someone needs to be sacked, seriously.
hating the alien commander too... what were you guys smoking?
combat mode ... feels so weak and dumbed down.
PRO's:
love the new buildings for marines ... thats about it.
dont flame me for having an opinion i wasted 19 quid on this pile of mince it needs a ton of work.
the original NS beat this hands down for replayability but ive played about 10 hrs and i really dont want to log in again my impressions are that bad.
NS2 fails badly for me.
CONS:
Ns2 feels as if it has been so dumbed down so much its like playing a console game for little kids now.
skulks with their leap feels sooo weak, onos with their one button wins all, same goes for fade... was this intended? cos if it is someone needs to be sacked, seriously.
hating the alien commander too... what were you guys smoking?
combat mode ... feels so weak and dumbed down.
PRO's:
love the new buildings for marines ... thats about it.
dont flame me for having an opinion i wasted 19 quid on this pile of mince it needs a ton of work.
the original NS beat this hands down for replayability but ive played about 10 hrs and i really dont want to log in again my impressions are that bad.
Comments
you are correct it is a mod.... my points are made in light of playing NS2 retail not the mod alone.
Allow me to completely contradict myself, then :P Have you tried the ns classic mod? It's not a recreation of NS1, it's sort of a hybrid that shifts the gameplay much more back towards the NS1 style, while keeping some aspects of NS2.
I've not had time to try it (I've barely had time to try retail), but it might offer you an experience closer to what you're looking for.
Sure,because the Onos in NS had nothing like that...
...oh wait...
NS2 fails badly for me.
CONS:
Ns2 feels as if it has been so dumbed down so much its like playing a console game for little kids now.
skulks with their leap feels sooo weak, onos with their one button wins all, same goes for fade... was this intended? cos if it is someone needs to be sacked, seriously.
hating the alien commander too... what were you guys smoking?
combat mode ... feels so weak and dumbed down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
basically what everyone been telling them for years during this whole development. Much of the gameplay has been watered-down to make everything easy to play. skulks leap never got fixed, they left the half working leap. those that don't know how leap should work check out ns1 leap, and compare it to the current handicap version.
alien commander, boring and like many things about ns2, being forced to stay if it works or doesn't.
its funny you said combat mode (haha) game doesn't have combat mode but this whole hybrid game was created from classic mode and combat mode into single gameplay which charlie said it himself, he wanted to combine of these modes together. we told him its mistake, we told him some things don't belong in classic mode but hey, meh.
the game does have combat mod, you have to checkout the workshop for that but it would of been better if game was released with combat mode and classic mode.
You obviously don't give about NS or its devs, so you can leave if you desire. Just one less arrogant, nostalgia-blinded player to worry about.
And you list a con as Combat (which is a mod btw) being dumbed down?
Combat <i>was</i> dumbed down NS, and in fact split and murdered the player base and the original intentions of the game's design. It was a grind game, which is basically what the FPS online genre has become, and I'm glad it's not an official mode
It's like, strip everything out that made the original so great, add some rankings - and then people came to NS for basically ranked AvP matches.
Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with playing a good CO match - but when a new gamemode basically divides your community and completely strips the game of what made it unique in the first place - there's something seriously wrong there.
Goodbye you won't be missed.
Go back and play NS1 after not playing it for a long time, you'll realize while it has a fondness, it clearly is not "better" than NS2.. just different.
lol. luns. you pounce!
its ok that uwe made the game they wanted to try to reach a more casual audience.
ns2c is actually looking pretty crackin for the more open gameplay & higher skill cap movement of ns1.
believe it or not charlie said ns2c ideas might find their way into ns2. ironic eh?
Played NS2 for 10 hours in the last two days, still loving it.
Opinions...
NS2 fails badly for me.
CONS:
Ns2 feels as if it has been so dumbed down so much its like playing a console game for little kids now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I kind of get sick of hearing this -- about games being dumbed down. I admit some games have become very simple in mechanics, have fewer keypresses in order to play, etc...though I believe NS2 is pretty complex to it's core as far as video games go. Do you mean like the mechanics/control? As a developer you have to realize that your game needs to be accessible...and when I say that I don't just mean to younger audiences. Many gamers are actually aging and don't have countless hours in high school or college to play video games or to even become great at them. You have to design a game that's easy for your target audience, which I think they tried hard to do -- making it easier to understand than the original mod. I still see all the core complexity there, though, like I said.
Is it the tool tip icons that set you off? They are meant to assist those completely new to the game.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->skulks with their leap feels sooo weak, onos with their one button wins all, same goes for fade... was this intended? cos if it is someone needs to be sacked, seriously.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not sure I get what you mean besides the leap. Onos originally had devour and stomp (stomp in NS2 is effective just the same). It was hard to kill an Onos in NS1 without a group focus and it's the same in NS2. Fade is nearly the same, maybe harder to get kills without focus. He has the movement advantage with the flashy effects screwing up a marines aim, but he can still be tracking when blinking around. You have to get used to the speed, unfortunately, if you are having a hard time. He does have vortex which is a bonus, but its meant to be a late game power.
If you ask me, the Lerk has been powered up like no other, especially since they recently made the spikes super accurate with decent damage.
I admit the leap does seem different or toned down compared to NS1 but I don't think it has to do with distance/speed necessarily. The engine is completely new and programmed in a way different from Half-Life/GoldSrc, so your leap isn't going to feel identical, much like the rest of the mechanics in the game. It's just the way it is. Also, the maps in general are a bit more open
than in NS1's tight corridors with simple geometry. Map/unit size or scaling could have something to do with it. Everything feels slightly bigger in NS2 compared to NS1, where thin little skulk models flew around.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hating the alien commander too... what were you guys smoking?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand you there -- but they wanted to go in a different direction. If you had anything to make a big point about, I'd think this would be your main argument. There was a lot of complaining about this years ago during the development -- and I don't know much about modeling/creating balanced RTS games -- but I think it had to do with the way resource points were distributed and used for the team. The teams are still completely asymmetrical in play (even more than games like Starcraft, which is a strict point and click RTS where the units just attack and have special skills/attributes/restrictions...no room for human error...A beats B, more numbers beat less) since it's a FPS but the commander role for each side for structure cost/placement helps with true balance I think.
If you don't find it fun, you should adopt a play style that makes it rewarding but effective. If there isn't one, maybe you should give some suggestions to make it better.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->combat mode ... feels so weak and dumbed down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thought you might be one of those people who complained that combat has no place...but...as it was said, the combat mode floating around out there on some servers was community developed. Not bad if you ask me since we just finally hit 1.0 release. Now that there are more people playing and it becomes popular, I'm sure it will get improved.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->PRO's:
love the new buildings for marines ... thats about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean like the look/effects? I don't even think about these kinds of things when I think of gameplay/features. They are cool though, some designs I don't like completely, but making a design everyone will love and fits with a series is hard. Cory/art people did a good job.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->dont flame me for having an opinion i wasted 19 quid on this pile of mince it needs a ton of work.
the original NS beat this hands down for replayability but ive played about 10 hrs and i really dont want to log in again my impressions are that bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be nice to hear suggestions along with your complaints at least. The only real thing I honestly feel like I can complain about is the performance of the game and the hardware required. It's quite playable (has some frame drops) on my core i7 and 5850 (1440x900) but I can't imagine how it is for those with lesser systems. I know Max/programmers work hard and it's a massive undertaking, it just sucks the performance isn't where they want it to be. I feel bad for them on this point -- I hope things turn around for them with getting the game running buttery smooth on a majority of users' hardware.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Much of the gameplay has been watered-down to make everything easy to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well you know what, CS was way more popular than NS1 and it was pretty simple compared to other tactical/team shooters at the time. I loved Rogue Spear to death because it required some good tactics and some team coordination, yet it didn't have the huge following/boom that CS did. A lot of people were turned off by NS1 because it had a steep learning curve to even effectively use the classes on the alien side and get used to the maps. I would call that a fault, as great and fun as NS1 was.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->skulks leap never got fixed, they left the half working leap. those that don't know how leap should work check out ns1 leap, and compare it to the current handicap version.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Leap is different, but plenty effective in my opinion. What's wrong with it? It's not exactly the same as the leap from NS1 which is a different game?
As for the dumbing down, ofcourse its happened. Look at the change between gorge and now the khamm ( a totally boring role noone likesp laying but someone has to do, infact in good teams people dont actually have a khamm, someone hops in and places something when its needed then they get out, thats how little its valued or wanted ). Strategically the game is nothing compared to NS1, seriously, who see's anything but 2 hive early drop, leap, bile bomb and onos egg or phase tech, shotties into upgrade pump? Reason, its simply the best strategy regardless which, by definition, makes the 'strategy' element pretty poor. Given movement for aliens is terrible half of the games combat isnt great either.
Only reason Im sticking around is to hope they revert the changes/wait for NS2C (NS1 in NS2 engine) to get up and running fully.
It really does feel like NS2 in release form does nothing to justify its price tag over the NS1 mod, sure you have a shiny engine but thats irrelivant of the game and was your own choice to develop. If it was in UT or a similar engine would we have had such terrible performance problems for years on end and would the product be any different? I highly doubt it. So what are we paying for, an engine we dont need, a graphical enhancement which has caused no end of performance problems (time that could have been spent on content) and a dumbing down of mechanics. I didnt judge it before release but now 1.0 is here things havent improved to where they should be for a retail game.
Its like that guy copypasted it one of the examples.
EDIT: I work fast!
<a href="http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/" target="_blank">http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/</a>
Sorry you get bored with Alien classes, I don't. Lerk is way better (almost too good) if anything. Fade, Onos, and Gorge seem generally the same as they've been for awhile. Skulk has had the minor tweaks to wall jump which I think is unnecessary in the game anyway. The biggest change was the skulk bite cone/damage. I think that was a great idea as it prevents 4 skulks trying to kill one jumping marine for 5 seconds or more.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for the dumbing down, ofcourse its happened. Look at the change between gorge and now the khamm ( a totally boring role noone likesp laying but someone has to do, infact in good teams people dont actually have a khamm, someone hops in and places something when its needed then they get out, thats how little its valued or wanted ). Strategically the game is nothing compared to NS1, seriously, who see's anything but 2 hive early drop, leap, bile bomb and onos egg or phase tech, shotties into upgrade pump? Reason, its simply the best strategy regardless which, by definition, makes the 'strategy' element pretty poor. Given movement for aliens is terrible half of the games combat isnt great either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think the strategy is any less simple. In NS1 you had 3 upgrade chambers for alien. Laying one allowed access to any of the three perks under that branch...any additional chambers intensified it. Movement had the special function of allowing hive teleport. Abilities came with hives instead of the branching research choice there is now. That's it. The gorge had more to do, but that's because there was no commander.
Marines bascially upgraded to Heavies and JPs and either marched in to shoot the hive or set up a siege.
Maybe you are confusing game depth with game length...that's a big difference in NS2 compared to NS1. It took a long time to set up resources, control the map, and get upgrades compared to NS2 where game can end much quicker through rushing and big pushes to the hive/CC. Just because NS2 has some quick and effective tactics to quickly win/end a game doesn't mean there aren't other options or counters present to promote a longer struggle.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only reason Im sticking around is to hope they revert the changes/wait for NS2C (NS1 in NS2 engine) to get up and running fully.
It really does feel like NS2 in release form does nothing to justify its price tag over the NS1 mod, sure you have a shiny engine but thats irrelivant of the game and was your own choice to develop. If it was in UT or a similar engine would we have had such terrible performance problems for years on end and would the product be any different? I highly doubt it. So what are we paying for, an engine we dont need, a graphical enhancement which has caused no end of performance problems (time that could have been spent on content) and a dumbing down of mechanics. I didnt judge it before release but now 1.0 is here things havent improved to where they should be for a retail game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would not complain about a great game (which is not just some flashy graphics tacked on to NS1...which, contradictory to what you say, seems to be what you want) that cost half the price of another that you might only put 10 hours or less into. Play NS1 if you can't live without your bad case of nostalgia. It's completely free and you can play it until you get too old to care about video games, enjoying every single moment up to that point, instead of feeling disappointed with NS2 which is not a creation to call your own -- in your mind or otherwise.
Yep, however some of the complexity in NS2 is quite sterile: it constraints more than it opens the possibilities. A good example is the power node system, it's rather complicated but creates gameplay problems and restrict building placement.
Not every kind of complexity is good, sometimes it's better to stick to simple rules and let them generate complexity.
Its like that guy copypasted it one of the examples.
EDIT: I work fast!
<a href="http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/" target="_blank">http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for the post -- I liked the article.