My Gripes
Vladimir Van Vodka
Sexy Beast Join Date: 2010-07-30 Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Sexy Beast Join Date: 2010-07-30 Member: 73364Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">about the game in it's current state</div>I love the game.
Just to clear that up right now.
but a few things need to be adressed in the game hopefully as soon as possible.
-Late game skulk combat obsolescence.
-Late game aliens not scaling.
-Linear alien strategy for late-game / survival (<i>Second Hive -> Carapace + Celerity -> Onos Rush</i>)
-Grenade launcher corner spam not having a counter.
-Shotgun being a soft counter to <i>every lifeform</i>.
-Egglocking
I'm not subtly suggesting implementing nerfs to marines. I'm implying aliens need a wider range of strategies that aren't looped in one form or another every round when late game hits.
The game needs more content to make gameplay less frustrating and linear for aliens:
-More viable hard siege mechanics for aliens.
-Possible alien scaling.
-Marine tech/upgrade sabotage.
And on the marine's side:
-More viable combat weapons for marines, <i>other then shotgun</i>.
<strike>-Soft onos counter</strike> actually, maybe exo or jetpacks already fit this?
Both sides as it stands, have quite equal chances to defeat each-other on most maps, which is great!
...But the fun factor being at a loss because securing map dominance as aliens is stressfully important just to be able to survive in the long term even against 2 or less CC's. Having Celerity is stressfully important to achieve a decent map defense against lone sabotages and phase gate setups. And Carapace is stressfully important to just be able to survive long enough against a decent marine with Level 3 weapons. And Onos is stressfully important to be able to push through a decent team of marines turtling at their final CC.
I'm not sure about competitive games, but in Pubs it always seems to follow more or less this formula, as a marine it seems I always see it coming, and as aliens I always push for this seemingly only viable winning strategy.
For late game of course, as for early game the game seems to have more viable strategies for aliens, but the longer it drags, this is more likely to be the only resort.
I hope this is addressed as soon as possible.
<b>I know the game will only become more awesome as the year(s) passes.</b>
<i>thanks UWE Gooey Goodness!</i>
Just to clear that up right now.
but a few things need to be adressed in the game hopefully as soon as possible.
-Late game skulk combat obsolescence.
-Late game aliens not scaling.
-Linear alien strategy for late-game / survival (<i>Second Hive -> Carapace + Celerity -> Onos Rush</i>)
-Grenade launcher corner spam not having a counter.
-Shotgun being a soft counter to <i>every lifeform</i>.
-Egglocking
I'm not subtly suggesting implementing nerfs to marines. I'm implying aliens need a wider range of strategies that aren't looped in one form or another every round when late game hits.
The game needs more content to make gameplay less frustrating and linear for aliens:
-More viable hard siege mechanics for aliens.
-Possible alien scaling.
-Marine tech/upgrade sabotage.
And on the marine's side:
-More viable combat weapons for marines, <i>other then shotgun</i>.
<strike>-Soft onos counter</strike> actually, maybe exo or jetpacks already fit this?
Both sides as it stands, have quite equal chances to defeat each-other on most maps, which is great!
...But the fun factor being at a loss because securing map dominance as aliens is stressfully important just to be able to survive in the long term even against 2 or less CC's. Having Celerity is stressfully important to achieve a decent map defense against lone sabotages and phase gate setups. And Carapace is stressfully important to just be able to survive long enough against a decent marine with Level 3 weapons. And Onos is stressfully important to be able to push through a decent team of marines turtling at their final CC.
I'm not sure about competitive games, but in Pubs it always seems to follow more or less this formula, as a marine it seems I always see it coming, and as aliens I always push for this seemingly only viable winning strategy.
For late game of course, as for early game the game seems to have more viable strategies for aliens, but the longer it drags, this is more likely to be the only resort.
I hope this is addressed as soon as possible.
<b>I know the game will only become more awesome as the year(s) passes.</b>
<i>thanks UWE Gooey Goodness!</i>
Comments
Carapace barely lends survivability against W2... in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if W2 killed aliens with carapace faster than W0 does against non-carapace aliens... all I know is that with Carapace, a Fade cannot survive more than one or two second (yes, that short) engagements around a marine with a shotgun. And I don't know if the hitreg is super-generous or what but I'm CONSTANTLY killed performing all kinds of acrobatics like I'm playing against FPS Doug.
This is roughly how I feel about the game's power curve:
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/sCdNP.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Shotguns should be the soft counter to skulks. Fades should get a serious amount of armor that shotguns do extremely weak damage against. You're correct, shotguns are the 'soft counter' to literally everything the aliens have, to such a degree that with upgrades it starts acting as a hard counter. With W3 shotguns you literally kill skulks, lerks, and gorges in one good hit.
-Late game aliens not scaling.
-Linear alien strategy for late-game / survival (Second Hive -> Carapace + Celerity -> Onos Rush)
-Grenade launcher corner spam not having a counter.
-Shotgun being a soft counter to every lifeform.
-Egglocking<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. If our team has an Onos -- I save my resources. If you have an Onos in the room, most players will focus on that player, along me to destroy welders / exo suits. Also, if your team is pushing their base, skulks are again overlooked with the desire to kill the Onos.
2. How so? I feel as if I'm an Onos, I can 1-1 an exo any day of the week. Just like any scenario, team work is completely necessary. An Onos with a couple of skilled skulks / bilebombing (or healing) gorges can wreck almost any team.
3. I personally enjoy the build (Celerity->Second Hive->Carapace) This can be interchanged with (Carapace->Second hive ->Leap) -- the objective being to allow your players to move around the map / close distance between players quickly. I tend to stick to the first. Ultimately you are correct though. End game mainly consists of Onos rushing, but as a commander I LOVE trying to organize pushes with crags / shift egg spamming.
4. Grenade launchers have their upsides / downsides. While yes, they are nasty for corners, they are stupid in close quarters. If I see a GL, I take the route behind them to try and close the distance. The counter to GL are their inherent weakness - no close quarter defense.
5. No answer for this one...shotgun in the hands of a skilled player is hard to defend against. Your only real weapon is surprise. Hiding in corners / ceilings allows you to take down a player before they can turn around, usually.
5. Egglocking? Shift egg spam!
There's a problem when skulks can <i>only</i> be effective in combat when an onos or other lifeform is present.
I'm talking about carapace leap skulk not being able to hold his ground 1 v 1 against an <i>equally skilled</i> LMG marine with T3 tech.
I don't understand how the skulk would devolve into an arbitrary threat that requires support, as the main alien class, it shouldn't feel like it's obsolete. I'm not saying it should be able to take on a shotgun marine, but it should be able to take on an LMG marine.
While when I play marine I don't have that feeling at all, I can take on skulks quite easily even with leap, Carapace and Celerity, reason being because T3 damage completely negates any advantage carapace could have, <b>without carapace, it's even more skewed.</b> <i>While the skulk requires <b>more</b> bites to kill me then before.</i>
Thus skulk does not scale lategame.
<!--quoteo(post=2009417:date=Nov 4 2012, 03:09 PM:name=SmellyPants)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SmellyPants @ Nov 4 2012, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009417"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. How so? I feel as if I'm an Onos, I can 1-1 an exo any day of the week. Just like any scenario, team work is completely necessary. An Onos with a couple of skilled skulks / bilebombing (or healing) gorges can wreck almost any team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LMG marine is always effective 1 v 1 throughout the whole game. Because his armor and damage scales, allowing him to be level with carapace lerks at late game, and there's a big cost difference there.
Shotgun is worse, it's a counter to Fades too,
As for Onos still being effective, refer to point 3, onos are kinda Op, but they seem to be the only viable strategy, seemingly because of this. I personally think lategame Onos is the sole reason the win ratios are ~50%.
<!--quoteo(post=2009417:date=Nov 4 2012, 03:09 PM:name=SmellyPants)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SmellyPants @ Nov 4 2012, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009417"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. I personally enjoy the build (Celerity->Second Hive->Carapace) This can be interchanged with (Carapace->Second hive ->Leap) -- the objective being to allow your players to move around the map / close distance between players quickly. I tend to stick to the first. Ultimately you are correct though. End game mainly consists of Onos rushing, but as a commander I LOVE trying to organize pushes with crags / shift egg spamming.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One form or another, in lategame you <b>always</b> need a second hive just to survive, you <b>always</b> need celerity for widespread defense, you <b>always</b> need carapace just to have a chance against T3 damage, and you <b>always</b> need onos to push through a decent team defending their two or last CC.
<!--quoteo(post=2009417:date=Nov 4 2012, 03:09 PM:name=SmellyPants)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SmellyPants @ Nov 4 2012, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009417"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4. Grenade launchers have their upsides / downsides. While yes, they are nasty for corners, they are stupid in close quarters. If I see a GL, I take the route behind them to try and close the distance. The counter to GL are their inherent weakness - no close quarter defense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't forget marine base grenade camping, I hate how marines support each-other with continuous high damage explosions.
A fix to this could be that grenades only explode when marines aren't close to any about to detonate. (nanites!)
<!--quoteo(post=2009417:date=Nov 4 2012, 03:09 PM:name=SmellyPants)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SmellyPants @ Nov 4 2012, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009417"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5. No answer for this one...shotgun in the hands of a skilled player is hard to defend against. Your only real weapon is surprise. Hiding in corners / ceilings allows you to take down a player before they can turn around, usually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, that's why I'm saying shotgun needs a soft counter, I always go on rampages with the shotgun, I have yet to meet a lifeform that can take me 1 v 1 except for onos.
problem is, if you buff lifeforms or nerf shotgun, marines won't have a soft counter to the higher tier lifeforms, that's why I'm suggesting a new combat weapon for them if they change the shotgun or buff late lifeforms.
<!--quoteo(post=2009417:date=Nov 4 2012, 03:09 PM:name=SmellyPants)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SmellyPants @ Nov 4 2012, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2009417"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5. Egglocking? Shift egg spam!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Problem with this is that marines can egglock an early hive, effectively winning the game just by destroying eggs around them instead of fighting players. It's still frustrating.
I guess it's a viable strategy to egglock, but aliens have no other thing like it, even when they are currently destroying an IP, marines can still phase through and fight to defend it.
same with the power being taken down, while you are currently destroying it, marines can come and defend it.
All they really need to do is rewrite the eggspawning mechanic, not the eggs themselves, but the way a player spawns, so he's not tied to an egg that's doomed to be destroyed. or that you only spawn at hives that are taking damage, or the counter to respawn doesn't reset.<i> Something</i> to make it less frustrating.
Also aliens have no real effective way to sabotage marine upgrades like a single lone marine can to aliens, even if you take the horrendous amount of time it takes to chew or bilebomb through a T3 armor T3 damage Arms Lab that's in the heart of their base (probably with phasegates and a beacon to stop you.), once it's destroyed marines can just drop a new one that costs 20 res and takes a mere 20 seconds to rebuild, instantly recovers all of the T3 upgrades. Even if they only have 1 CC.
Hmm, just remembered, they could make vortex and xenocide effective for something, as of now they are kind of useless. That may or may not help.