Commander and Gorge the least appreciated classes
Safewood
Join Date: 2012-11-03 Member: 166381Members
Join Date: 2012-11-03 Member: 166381Members
By the game, of course. Any competent player understands that a good Commander and Gorge player are absolutely vital, but these two classes are always lowest on the scoreboard no matter what.
I've always liked playing support, because that's the most valuable class in any game, be it League of Legends, Counter-Strike, Team Fortress or World of Warcraft, a support player is always needed.
Instead of a K/D point system, there should be a K/D/A point system; where Gorge players get assists for healing team mates that get a frag, marking opponents with spit that get killed, bombing Mechs and buildings that get destroyed, and harassing opponents with Hydras that are killed by e.g. a Whip.
Commanders get points for building constructions, giving commands that turns in your favor (e.g. call to attack a point, where you manages to destroy their power node), and other similar things.
There's so many times where a great Commander tells a few of us to harass an extractor point, so that it splits our opponent's team up, which in turn lets us take over the double extractor point; such commands should be shown in the scoreboard by points.
A Gorge is the least played class because of the point system, and there's quite a few who get tired of playing Commander because they want to be at the top of the scoreboard. I truly believe if the scoreboard can show the difference between a good and bad Gorge player, it will be a much more attractive class for others to play. That goes for a commander aswell, even though that can be hard task to show the difference between a good and bad Commander, but I believe it's possible.
If you have any suggestions to how to improve the point system for all classes, then do not hesitate to post constructive suggestions. :)
I've always liked playing support, because that's the most valuable class in any game, be it League of Legends, Counter-Strike, Team Fortress or World of Warcraft, a support player is always needed.
Instead of a K/D point system, there should be a K/D/A point system; where Gorge players get assists for healing team mates that get a frag, marking opponents with spit that get killed, bombing Mechs and buildings that get destroyed, and harassing opponents with Hydras that are killed by e.g. a Whip.
Commanders get points for building constructions, giving commands that turns in your favor (e.g. call to attack a point, where you manages to destroy their power node), and other similar things.
There's so many times where a great Commander tells a few of us to harass an extractor point, so that it splits our opponent's team up, which in turn lets us take over the double extractor point; such commands should be shown in the scoreboard by points.
A Gorge is the least played class because of the point system, and there's quite a few who get tired of playing Commander because they want to be at the top of the scoreboard. I truly believe if the scoreboard can show the difference between a good and bad Gorge player, it will be a much more attractive class for others to play. That goes for a commander aswell, even though that can be hard task to show the difference between a good and bad Commander, but I believe it's possible.
If you have any suggestions to how to improve the point system for all classes, then do not hesitate to post constructive suggestions. :)
Comments
I see more Gorges then Lerks and oni. Oni because it costs a lot but still an onos is no where near as effective unless supored by a gorge. Fades are a lot more devistaing with a gorge. Gorges are a great cheap counter to exo when they have bile. 2 or 3 Gorges can rush and almost destory a base or destory a power node or CC quickly, on an unsuspacting base.
These are widely known and am just saying waht others have said befor but because many peopel know this a lot of people play gorge.
And I see what you mean about points and it does happen but not as much as your making it to sound. Whats a few points if your helping you team win?
<u><b>and there's quite a few who get tired of playing Commander because they want to be at the top of the scoreboard</b></u>
Never seen this issue befor. Commaders score is'nt even shown to anyone.
I might be completely wrong here, of course, but I really believe it's because of the point system that Gorge is one of the least played classes. If the scoreboard can show that you are a valuable player, then I think Gorges will become more attractive.
I've personally heard other players say they can't understand why they're at the bottom of the scoreboard, when in fact they were the very reason why we managed to take over an extraction point, which was true.
<b>@ Everyone else:</b>
You are missing the point. Where did I say Gorge was utterly useless? It's the point system that needs to be improved, to encourage Gorge to be played.
I almost never see a Gorge in my games; I'm lucky if someone else joins me in supporting as Gorge. There will obviously be more Gorge than Onos or Fades because of the resource system and upgrades, but as soon as players got the points they will more-so choose a Lerk, Fade or Onos over a Gorge, even Skulks at late game. This is at least shown in every single game I've ever played.
Gorge and commanders may be less appreciated on the scoreboard, in reality however they often get the most appreciation for their work, since they are absolutely vital and I've seen many players commend or thank comms and gorges.
Switching to Gorge: +5 merit points
Helping to construct a building as Gorge: +10 merit points
Killing a marine as Gorge: -20 "This is not Call of Duty" points
Using the Gorge Slip-n-slide: +5 fun points
Healing an Onos: +261830 ZOMGAWESOME points
[/joke]
Absolutely, I sometimes get praised upon by players that sees my team work as a Gorge, which is one of the reasons I really like playing them. However, often I don't really have the same motivation and focus as when I play other classes that gains a lot more points for destroying constructions and killing opponents; call me a stat-######, but it does keep me more focused in a long-lasting game.
Only bile bomb and heal spray are useful, and in both cases it's extremely difficult to use them in such a way they significantly help your team without getting too close to the enemy team and dying.
If you do not bile bomb or heal spray effectively you are literally hurting your team by being a gorge rather than a skulk.
Couldn't agree more with you, Swiftspear. However, two gorges supporting can be absolutely devastating for your opponent's team, as long as they don't have a flamethrower and/or grenade launcher, since at that point, it gets immensely difficult to support without getting instagibbed.
A gorge should take a lot less damage from flames and explosives, while the healing spray needs a little longer and much wider range. The spit should obscure much more of the marines' view, though fades away quicker from worst to how it is now, and from there have the normal fade duration.
The hydras shouldn't take pres to build (at least a point or two less), and with a debuff that reduces X% of the marines armor, which makes the hydras useless alone, but really strong with damage output from other sources.
I don't even bother with scores tbh, if your team wins the game everyone did a good job I'd say..
I play to win, not sit and look at the score board.
Since release I've played all classes other than lerk (There were lerks already).
I've commanded a handful of games, I don't care what my score is.
I spend more time doing.. Upgrades, building placement, med/ammo spams, ordering, etc.
You know, playing the game.
I think gorge is the support / bomber.
Anyway, if you mind points, you actually get support points: 5 for each structure speeded up in costruction, 20 (or 15?) for each node, same for rt, 30 for cc etc.
I had ridiculous points (in pub) going only skulk and gorge, without going onos.
ah, forgot the commanding.
I go commanding without problems, but i know i can help more to teach new commanders from the field, so i can also support others (if they follow me, they can learn how to take advantage from the map as skulk, or stop moving if i stop as marine).
so, at start i ask if some one wanna learn to command, i can help teaching him.
Nearly in each game a new com enters and can actually learn how to move his first steps and why do it (at start, late game is more difficult)
That's true, but if you want to boost your stats, you would have to camp in base. I don't want to earn points for the sake of earning it; I want points for what I do as the game progresses, be it from healing to bombing constructions. I don't get points for bile bombing constructions unless I get the last hit, which is a snowball's chance in hell I will get.
I believe most don't have a problem with no points showing as a Commander, and personally it's fine by me aswell, but I do have listened to players telling me they don't want to command anymore because of the scoreboard; you could argue that it's all the wrong reasons to actually command it, but I've had a few games (note rarely though), where we haven't had a single Commander, because they argued about the scoreboard.
Personally, I don't play as Commander, because I don't like all the responsibility I have to deal with, and rather like to play a Gorge and lead the team from there (I communicate a lot when I play).
Only bile bomb and heal spray are useful, and in both cases it's extremely difficult to use them in such a way they significantly help your team without getting too close to the enemy team and dying.
If you do not bile bomb or heal spray effectively you are literally hurting your team by being a gorge rather than a skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gorge has less effective HP and less mobility due to the removal of bunnyhopping and celerity not working in combat, so you pretty much have to slide away in a straight line or a very slight angle to the marines which will get you shredded even against bad players. Parasite limited duration, removal, and range gives you less map knowledge to work with while being more fragile. Self-heal seems reduced but I don't have the numbers. Spit feels slightly lower in velocity and has a delay when coming out compared to NS1 plus bad performance and hitreg and the armory heal and personal res means everyone runs around at full armor much more often than NS1.
Pretty much the only buff gorges have is bile v exos and spit vision obscuring mechanics, which are bad mechanics to begin with. Gorges really don't rock much ass anymore.
That's true, but if you want to boost your stats, you would have to camp in base. I don't want to earn points for the sake of earning it; I want points for what I do as the game progresses, be it from healing to bombing constructions. I don't get points for bile bombing constructions unless I get the last hit, which is a snowball's chance in hell I will get.
I believe most don't have a problem with no points showing as a Commander, and personally it's fine by me aswell, but I do have listened to players telling me they don't want to command anymore because of the scoreboard; you could argue that it's all the wrong reasons to actually command it, but I've had a few games (note rarely though), where we haven't had a single Commander, because they argued about the scoreboard.
Personally, I don't play as Commander, because I don't like all the responsibility I have to deal with, and rather like to play a Gorge and lead the team from there (I communicate a lot when I play).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i'm not sure about it: it seems to me (don't know for sure) that is not the last hit but the "who dealt more damage".
If it's last hit, the gorge does a costant damage (bile), and can also bile many structures togheter.
Try to bomb also other structures of a base when your'e attacking, dont bile only one (i usually do 2 bile to power, then 1 bile to other, then retourn to power, then other etc).
This way you can really destroy a base really quickly
Bile bomb on a powernode or even the whole base will likely force or even just melt away half the marines base/expansion.
They are plenty appreciated by the team they are on.
I haven't noticed any change in damage output if I apply more bile bomb to the same structure, thus I just try to hit as many as I can instead.
<b>@ Onii-chan:</b>
They can at least take out an extraction point by themself if they got no players with either Welder or Jetpacks there. However, as soon as they a Welder, then you're mostly occupying two marines' time, which can be great if someone on your team takes advantage of this. However, if they got Jetpacks, then it's more of a hit and run, because they will come after you in the vents.
<b>@ MistenTH:</b>
It did its purpose, now didn't it? Made you make a useless post to bump my thread. :3
We win the game though, and I think that winning is the only award I need to know I did a damn fine job. I also think everyone knows the value of a good gorge, as a timely clog can be the difference between losing nano or holding onto your hive.
Not to mention that your whole team can go gorge at the get-go and have an entire room decorated with pretty flowers that eat people that wander in. So much for sniping <i>that</i> upgrade Mr. Marine! (As a matter of fact, I think this is the only real viable option for hydra's to be effective. Hydra's need to scale with hives or something, because a Weapons 3 marine drops a hydra without even using a whole clip. There is literally no chance you can outheal damage on a hydra versus anything with weapon upgrades, which renders them moot. With them being so useless, it's even more crapola that the darn things cost resources in the first place.
If they cost resources, make them effective. If you leave them in their current state, they should be free since you're already capped at three max anyway and they take some time to mature.
I guess the theory was the gorge could shoot a guy while the hydra's help out, but with spit being garbage that doesn't work so well at the moment. At this time, I have yet to hit anyone with spit. Even stationary targets seem to magically be untouched. Not sure what the issue is, but raises my blood pressure to put all my energy into spit trying to drop some guy fighting my hydra's and I don't even wing him. I can hit things as a marine due to hit scan, but the movement time on alien projectiles is ludicrous and needs to be sped up or changed. Same goes for the parasite ability for skulks, at least with it I can tag them the second or third shot. Not so with spit, and not sure why.
back in ns 2.0 i am pretty sure that the K:D ratio is completely masked but only showing the team K:D ratio. the scores arent even there.
so how the hell people make it through 3.0??
I had a newb commander once asking us to repair a wall half the game lol
I think the scoring system is inherently flawed for a team game, and adding assists would be a good implementation.
I can't stress enough how much I love being a commander, and how appreciated I feel when the matches finishes (actually during the match too). I always get a "hey good job" or "thanks man" and generally when the game's over "awesome commander <3".
I play sometimes with friends and obviously with a lot of pugs, and at first it was daunting. No tutorials, never played the game before and I kept thinking everybody will hate me, I'm going to make us lose. But after some kind player helped me through the very basics I loved it and started running through actual build orders and proper plays.
Nobody I know cares about the scoreboard, sometimes you get sacrificed to save something, sometimes you have no control over whether you die or not, IT'S A TEAM GAME and this is the first time in the history of all my gaming, that I've seen 99% of people treat it as such. Even the newest of noobs will grab a welder if they don't have an exo, unlike BF3 where they try and stand in your road as you're taking off to blow up your plane so they can have it.
This game is so amazing not because of the gameplay, but the recognition for teamwork and that everything has a purpose. For some reason newer players think you have to be some form of god to command, so honestly:
tldr: commanders get the most appreciation out of all positions in the game and I've not seen a single person who has referred to the scoreboard for any purpose bar; "hey look, I went 53-0 on my gifted Onoes =P"
But ofc, I know I'm new (although I'm better than any commander I've played with to date) and I'm sure my +1 armour marine rushes, or 1/3 dual exo builds are stupid and there's probably better ways to do it. And as such don't deserve the credit I receive due to playing with players much lower level than anybody who's most likely going to read this!