Fixing the onos
alster
Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19124Members
Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19124Members
The onos can't actually be changed much. He is supposed to be a fast tank with little skill to play at a res cost not too incredibly high. He's a game ender because of the power points.
The solution would be to give a regular marine the railgun instead of the exo.
The railgun is heavy so you can't use jp or sprint. One shot slow firing and slow reloading. High damage and no need to zoom like a sniper rifle. High cost and research makes it not op.
The solution would be to give a regular marine the railgun instead of the exo.
The railgun is heavy so you can't use jp or sprint. One shot slow firing and slow reloading. High damage and no need to zoom like a sniper rifle. High cost and research makes it not op.
Comments
I've heard about it, but I still don't know what the point of the railgun would be, because the marines don't deserve a hardcounter to the Onos. A single dual minigun exo can already do high damage to a carapace Onos before being destroyed... dual minigun exo vs. an Onos without carapace is almost a coin flip depending on how far the Onos starts away.
I would make charge more powerful / useful, particularly in regard to structural damage, but mostly so structures aren't as effective at tying up an Onos / barricading yourself into your base. Vs. Marines it's fine, I guess.
My issue actually falls with the dual mini exos. You have 2 of those with 2-3 welders and I don't know what is going to stop them.
I think the onos is just fine as it is.
Know why?
It's because the Onos should be in the Exo's main base wrecking their power node while the marine team is engaged in killing the hive. An Onos can take out two, even three marine bases before the Exo's can take out two hives. I say this a lot, but it needs to be said. Exo's lose the game to competent aliens.
lol... no.
Exos are also a big risk; they don't beacon, and they can't phase. If you've got exos hitting your hive with heavy support, that usually means a good chunk of the marine team is committed to that push. If you can hit them somewhere that smarts, causing them to beacon, you'll leave the exos totally unsupported, and lone exos in a hive go down pretty damned easily. Any damage you do as a skulk, even if you die, is "permanent".
Know why?
It's because the Onos should be in the Exo's main base wrecking their power node while the marine team is engaged in killing the hive. An Onos can take out two, even three marine bases before the Exo's can take out two hives. I say this a lot, but it needs to be said. Exo's lose the game to competent aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's more situational than that...
what if you get to marine base and 5 marines pop through the phase gate? bye bye 75 res.
it's always an option, to attack their base and try to force a recall, but it's not always the correct option. i think it's better to have a balance of units/weapons to counter the opponent composition.
going mass exo is fail because of bile bomb as well as the terrible mobility, but going mass onos is also fail because you lose the alien mobility advantage. alert jetpack marines will chase onos and kill for free if you try to escape, additionally the jetpack marines can use vents/mobility to attack areas of the map with no onos defence.
what if you get to marine base and 5 marines pop through the phase gate? bye bye 75 res.
it's always an option, to attack their base and try to force a recall, but it's not always the correct option.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because if five marines pop through that phase gate then the exos are probably undefended ;)
not necessarily.
the marines can make that call based on many variables... number of onos, number of exo's, life % of hive, distance from phase gate etc. they could merely fall back into a defensive position for the few seconds it takes the marines to trap and kill the onos, then pop back through the phase gate to support the exo's.
i'm just saying that with the assumption that you can always either destroy marine base or destroy the exo's, you're also assuming that the marines didn't expect such a response and thus failed to deal with it accordingly.
you see it all the time in SC2... terran sieges the opponent's base, opponent just drops/mobility to bypass terran siege and attack terran main base to do huge damage. but good terran players are EXTREMELY cautious when they leave their base weakly defended, thinking of mutalisk harrass - they most certainly don't just continue attacking while allowing mutalisk to plow through their economy (turrets aren't even close to stopping critical mass mutas)... unless they're 100% sure they can win with the push.
Exos are also a big risk; they don't beacon, and they can't phase. If you've got exos hitting your hive with heavy support, that usually means a good chunk of the marine team is committed to that push. If you can hit them somewhere that smarts, causing them to beacon, you'll leave the exos totally unsupported, and lone exos in a hive go down pretty damned easily. Any damage you do as a skulk, even if you die, is "permanent".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nailed it on all accounts.
Skulls are hard to shoot as an exo if they can rotate behind you. Get 2-3 skulls on an Exo and it's toast.
I think the worst thing a Marine team can do is 1-2 Exo rush. You need 3-4, rest welding, turrets up in base. I've been able to sneak behind as a gorge, while the Marines are trying to take a hive and bile bomb the hell out of a base. Get a skull or 2 with me, we can rip down a power source pretty quickly. We may lose a hive, but we will rip down all the upgraded tech.
Won a couple matches that way already.
Nailed it on all accounts.
Skulls are hard to shoot as an exo if they can rotate behind you. Get 2-3 skulls on an Exo and it's toast.
I think the worst thing a Marine team can do is 1-2 Exo rush. You need 3-4, rest welding, turrets up in base. I've been able to sneak behind as a gorge, while the Marines are trying to take a hive and bile bomb the hell out of a base. Get a skull or 2 with me, we can rip down a power source pretty quickly. We may lose a hive, but we will rip down all the upgraded tech.
Won a couple matches that way already.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really... I think too many people see Exo as "rofl-stomp-win-tank".
Next time your an exo follow the marines around, instead of them following you.
Stand outside a hive and let them pour grenades/bullets into the hive whilst you sit back in a courner shooting anything that tries to attack your team mates... Seriously, if you go first the onos will run in and kill you.
If you sit in a courner they wont run in, run past all your buddies and attack you... and if he does he will die.
Every time he runs in to kill a marine he gets a minigun in the face.
Next time your an exo follow the marines around, instead of them following you.
Stand outside a hive and them them pour grenades/bullets into the hive whilst you sit back in a courner shooting anything that tries to attack your team mates... Seriously, if you go first the onos will run in and kill you.
If you sit in a courner the only wont run in, run past all your buddies and attack you... and if he does he will die.
If he doesn't every time he runs in to kill a marine he gets a minigun in the face.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you have 560hp, surely it's better for you to take the brunt of the onos damage... your marine friends will all live and therefore you have more dps to kill the onos faster.
if you're at the back, the onos will kill your marine buddies instantly and your dps will plummet. you're far more likely to get overwhelmed and die without that dps (obvious).
The only upsides of an Exo are the fact they don't run out of ammunition and a dual Exo can put constant firepower on a target or deny a hallway with non-stop bullets to deter skulks. That's it.
Also, if the Marines have a forward phase gate that allows the non-exo's to prioritize returning to their main base to stop an Onos rush than the aliens team has such a noob team that there is no way in hell they even have Onos.
Onos can have their cake and eat it too. Super fast, great damage, and can soak up a lot of damage. Two or three Onos will take down a power node, even if they don't survive the trip. When applied to a marine base that is lightly defended, as it will be during a heavy Exo push, it is unstoppable. Obs, Power, CC, GG.
<i>TL;DR</i>
I mean this with absolutely sincerity, Exo's are a kiss of death for the Marines team unless they own the entire map and are assaulting a single, cut off from the rest of the map Hive. In those situations, a group of GL/Shotgun troops with jetpacks would <i>still</i> be a better investment in every possible sense of the phrase.
Imagine a blinking Onos.
or
A gigantic Bile Bomb
or
A leaping Onos
Small, calculated design changes are required to balance games, not huge sweeping changes that completely break any other aspect of the game. It's why you don't see sweeping balance changes in StarCraft 2.
- Marines in SC2 are extremely OP vs Zerglings but Zergling/Baneling or Ling/Infestor completely decimates them
- Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor is the most immobile army in the game but easily the most expensive, it's designed to win straight up fights but it gets picked apart when out of position or when caught off guard
Think of Exos with support like Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor, it's immobile and it's vulnerable when out of position but it's a powerhouse when the cogs are in place.
I'm not saying it's perfectly balanced but things are not quite refined or thought of, people don't know the game as much and playstyles, teamwork and learning are still in practice. Just like SC2 on release was a broken mess.
Small, calculated design changes are required to balance games, not huge sweeping changes that completely break any other aspect of the game. It's why you don't see sweeping balance changes in StarCraft 2.
- Marines in SC2 are extremely OP vs Zerglings but Zergling/Baneling or Ling/Infestor completely decimates them
- Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor is the most immobile army in the game but easily the most expensive, it's designed to win straight up fights but it gets picked apart when out of position or when caught off guard
Think of Exos with support like Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor, it's immobile and it's vulnerable when out of position but it's a powerhouse when the cogs are in place.
I'm not saying it's perfectly balanced but things are not quite refined or thought of, people don't know the game as much and playstyles, teamwork and learning are still in practice. Just like SC2 on release was a broken mess.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, Skulks that know what they're doing are the best unit to counter Exo's with. Yet another reason Exo's are garbage against everything except direct fire applied to a hive. Exo is a huge gamble, more so than anything else. If the aliens team has any resources, you're running the risk of getting a huge Onos rush that tears through your vital structures back at your home bases, losing you the game. Skill can obviously overcome, but if your skilled player is trapped inside a slow-moving anti-structure unit that gets nowhere fast there isn't anything they can do to help you out other than plod along and pray they can either get back to base or kill the second hive before they lose everything. (Hint; They won't.)
I think they should let Exo pilots get out of the unit to build if they need to, but let aliens destroy the exo while there's no pilot. It add's choices, and makes the Exo a lot less LOL as a mid game tech choice.
I have seen a game where 1 or more exos just camped at base and sure they were on the losing end yet the game lasted longer than it should have. If you gave the exo a railgun with no reloading and no ammo limit plus reparing macs he would kill any onos or bile bombing gorge within sight. The game that should have been over quickly, because the marines have lost all their territory would last way too long.
So I say make it risky and never easy to take down an onos and let the marine have the railgun.
Anyone want to buff the onos to make sure the games ends? Let him upgrade to breath fire!?!
I think it would shake things up, and give the aliens incentive to engage the Exo's and help mitigate the Exo's being so darn slow and limited. Obviously, such a weapon would have a comparatively short range to put them on the edge of danger and to avoid Exo's sniping hives from their main base.
After thinking about it, something that good should probably move even slower than the regular Exo's. Give the marines an inch, and they'll take a mile. =)
if you're at the back, the onos will kill your marine buddies instantly and your dps will plummet. you're far more likely to get overwhelmed and die without that dps (obvious).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No he wont because if your at the back he cant kill you, and that onos only want to kill you.
Not to mention it doesn't matter if the marines die, they respawn and come back through the PG... Picking up their guns and run back into the hive for more killing... You just sit there making sure the onos can never come into the room your guarding, never kill your phase gate and thus never break the assault on their hive.
The neck for example, allows a single duel exo to cover the corridor from C12 -> neck and neck-> Pipeline, a single duel exo stops onos being able to push a phase-gate in the neck at all...
The Onos MK II. Its a merge evolution between the Gorge and the Onos. In addition to being able to hold 2 carapace upgrades, it has a devastatingly cute slide that 1HKOs anything it touches, but it only goes in a straight direciton until it stops. Since railguns would be stationary, one of these cute little balls of fun could hard counter them and any exos along the way.
And as a bonus, people stop complaining. You're going to lose, but they're just too cute to be mad at.
Fades... didn't you hear the entire damage potential for fades has been removed and they are going to make them invincible...
New players wont know they are totally useless and will try shoot them thus wasting their ammo whilst 100000 onos kill them.
if you're at the back, the onos will kill your marine buddies instantly and your dps will plummet. you're far more likely to get overwhelmed and die without that dps (obvious).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it takes 4 to 5 hits for an onos to kill an exo and 3 hits to kill a marine. "Tanking" as an exo is a very bad idea, especially since exos gatling guns are the only type of "heavy" damage gun in the whole game, which treat armor like it was health. When a marine fight an onos he has to take down 3300 hp, when an exo fights an onos he has to take down 2300 hp with a gun deal 2.5x more dmg then the assault rifle. So yeah, let the weakling take the hits while you rape the onos with 2 gatlings
The onos and exos are game-enders and should be as "even" as possible.
My issue actually falls with the dual mini exos. You have 2 of those with 2-3 welders and I don't know what is going to stop them.
I think the onos is just fine as it is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol yeah right make both meele plz !
ever heard of vortex?
guys rly ... think before u post... thx
ever heard of vortex?
guys rly ... think before u post... thx<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean that melee ability of the lifeform that has the worst size:health ratio that has a cooldown before and after using it that stops him from doing anything else, takes half his energy, and only lasts three seconds?
That one?
That one?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You forgot to mention it's a third hive ability. Which makes it even worse.