<!--quoteo(post=2012281:date=Nov 5 2012, 10:04 PM:name=Sooty)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sooty @ Nov 5 2012, 10:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What I really don't understand is why there doesn't seem to be anything coming from UWE side. From this article:
I was imagining UWE to be more like Riot. Open, reasonable, frank, great mediators and generally awesome. This forum is in danger of becoming really toxic without some leadership. Where's our commander!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
clearly you weren't here at the beginning of LoL, i can tell you there was absolutly no communications, ninja patchs and 12 hours straight downtimes everyweek and plenty of other crappy stuff. UWE have been making vids and regulary posting stuff on what they're doing/what they're working, just give them some time.
<!--quoteo(post=2012449:date=Nov 6 2012, 08:09 PM:name=Soulfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soulfighter @ Nov 6 2012, 08:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012449"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->clearly you weren't here at the beginning of LoL, i can tell you there was absolutly no communications, ninja patchs and 12 hours straight downtimes everyweek and plenty of other crappy stuff. UWE have been making vids and regulary posting stuff on what they're doing/what they're working, just give them some time.
they're good, i heard they made ns2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> NS2...like we care about that ;)
I dont actually expect UWE to have anything like the presence they did during the Beta...that doesn't mean I dont believe they are reading and taking note. I know they are quietly lurking in the forums plotting what to change next and how to try to bring some of the fun back to aliens (they have said they want fun over 50:50 win rates). Just because they are quiet doesn't mean they dont love us anymore...just means they are busying coding and dreaming up fun stuff (or drinking...or all three things).
I think we all know there is some cool stuff that we got told "feature locked wont try that until post 1.0 " that they could be working on...lets hope they are.
they spent too much time watering down NS2 to be newbie-friendly cause they were afraid it'd be too complex and wouldn't make any money, hopefully this ###### can be fixed, don't be afraid to take stuff from NS1 not like there weren't gud ideas in there
<!--quoteo(post=2012226:date=Nov 5 2012, 11:31 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Nov 5 2012, 11:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012226"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No they arn't... Aliens spend the majority of most games with LESS rt's and LESS tech points than marines. Marines have teleportation between points in the map AND sprint. Marines are able to fortify any area on the map with armouries. Crags require to ALWAYS be connected to a hive by cyst chains and heal pathetically badly.
What game are you playing sir?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not when I'm comming aliens. We pretty much always grab the whole map, leaving the marines 1-3 resource nodes and 1 tech point. Granted I'm new (didn't start playing until launch day), and I've just been playing on random public servers. My most exciting discovery so far that I've seen very few commanders use: those upgraded whips :-D Just walk them into an empty room, and it all dies!
<!--quoteo(post=2012226:date=Nov 6 2012, 01:31 AM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Nov 6 2012, 01:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012226"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->*Referencing aliens being good at map control*
No they arn't... Aliens spend the majority of most games with LESS rt's and LESS tech points than marines. Marines have teleportation between points in the map AND sprint. Marines are able to fortify any area on the map with armouries. Crags require to ALWAYS be connected to a hive by cyst chains and heal pathetically badly.
What game are you playing sir?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We're talking about games that aliens lose within the first 15 minutes?
As a marine you constantly feel like you're walking into a dangerous area. As aliens you constantly feel like you're hunting down jerks on your turf.
You're not wrong, but we're talking about different things.
Map control is not the ability to determine where your next attack will be, or ensuring that that attack will be stronger than the defense, map control is only semi related to the ability to move fast. Map control is not how far your structures are spread across the map, or how many structures you have on the map, or even the ability to choose offensive positions for structure placement on the map. The team with less map control usually has to take the forward positions, otherwise their attacking army isn't mobile enough to defend their newly taken base. Mutalisks are weaker and slower than stimmed marines in starcraft, they still grant far more map control because they don't have to follow the rules of where walls are, they don't have to follow fixed attack and retreat paths, and at any given time they grant their user more vision than marines because they never have a cliff they can't see up. If your opponent has Mutalisks you must respond to their ability to just show up anywhere and start hurting you. You can't just freely attack ignoring that possibility.
The same is true for NS. It doesn't matter if you can phase across the map in a moments notice. If the aliens do not know EXACTLY where your phase gate is they are bad. If the aliens don't anticipate and identify the movements of your marines they are bad. On the other side you usually identify the location of a skulk when your powernode begins to die, you usually identify where a fade is by something important to you being attacked. In the very late game if the marines go heavily for jetpacks and the aliens go heavily for onos, I have seen the tables turn in that case. But even then, when an alien lifeform dies they respawn as a fast first responder unit. They never lose map control to the same degree marines start without map control. Marines dictate in NS2 where battle lines will be drawn, because they are strong and aliens can't afford to let them move freely, but aliens dictate where res is traded. Aliens always have the option of just refusing to fight where the marines want to and sacrificing a hive while they take out a marine tech node instead. Marines can never really choose to base trade, they can only respond to the aliens choice. It takes too much effort to establish a forward position near a base you want to take and the smash it down as marines.
This might seem like a negligable advantage. Aliens can't move around the map faster than a marine team with 2 established bases, they can't ever fight a prepared marine army, they are constantly being pressured by pushes that they can't cost effectively defeat. How can aliens have any advantage at all? THAT is exactly how map control works. And it is an advantage. It is a VERY POWERFUL advantage.
In starcraft 2, zerg players have always been in the position where, if both players are playing well, zerg must defend MORE space on the map, and they NEVER have an army that can cost effectively defeat their opponents army in open combat. Yet, despite this, Zerg players have recently been winning the most prestigious tournaments in the world. They have consistently been considered a very competitive race, although they are never able to allow the opponent to determine when and where the fight occurs. The simple reality is that they are forced to use their ability to show up unannounced where their opponents don't want them to offset the opponents constant ability to just outright kill their army. Zergs whittle down the opponent all game until the tides finally turn and they can win a picketed battle because the opponent has constantly had to invest in rebuilding, invest in bad angles of defense, invest in fights they really didn't want to participate in in that position. Just because zergs have slightly more map awareness with their overlords, a couple all purpose locational harassment units (that are very weak in direct combat) and a slightly higher average army movement speed. On any given place in the map an opponent must fear that a dozen zerglings might be there at any time. Zerg's must fear drops as well, but there are times when drops are unwise, positions were drops won't work, angles drops cannot come from. Zerg have map control and they consistently win games at the highest level because of it.
In NS2 aliens DO have map control. It is a real thing, it is a real advantage, it is important, and it does allow aliens to consistently win games.
<!--quoteo(post=2012217:date=Nov 5 2012, 10:25 PM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Nov 5 2012, 10:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012217"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not disagreeing with you per say, there are tweaks I'd like to see that I've put into those and a few other topics. In 24 person servers, the issue is that all the armor and weapon upgrades marines get are magnified. A team of 11 marines with level 3 armor and weapons will destroy an Onos in seconds even with Umbra. Lower that number to 7 marines and the same Onos with Umbra stands at least a chance of running away. He still won't do anything effective to the marines in either scenario, but in one of those he might have saved himself 75 p.res.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stop trying to solo then and work with your team...? This is a team game... why you're rushing into 11 Marines as an Onos is beyond me. If you're going to jump the Marine count from 7 to 11, it's only fair that you give that lone Onos a friend or two. The fact that 75 pres can go bye bye that easily sucks, but Exosuits have the same problem. This problem is rooted in the Onos being exponentially more powerful than the other Alien life forms(and thus really needed for a late game alien push) while Marines are still quite effective outside of an Exosuit and don't 100% need them for a push.
<!--quoteo(post=2012294:date=Nov 6 2012, 01:13 AM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Nov 6 2012, 01:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012294"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Problem is that they talk about being really open but they arn't... Even spending $40 two years ago we were still kept in the dark about loads of stuff that was dropped on our laps at release day. Apparently there is a mystic portal to the devs where by if you email charlie he will actually respond to you and apparently take all of your criticism on board. I was tempted to email him my balance list... but I don't see the point.
At the end of the day they are a company... they have "delivered" our product now and they could close down this forum in the next 5 mins and we could never hear from them again... Would be totally legit.. they wont do it but why should we expect anymore than that?
Honest to god it just makes me not want to work in the games industry even more... Having finished my degree companies like UWE and Valve looked like the perfect job... the utopia of the games industry... Meh... lol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With your attitude, as an IT Manager and Developer I would never higher you. If you were to snow me in an interview I guarantee that you would not last long.
I have been seeing less and less success hiring recent tech grads and it makes me sad.
A word to the wise and to those who pay attention...
UWE has always valued their base, you don't have to think very hard or very long to understand this. If you think that they are just sitting around choosing to ignore everyone's CRITICISM and complaints then you have not been around for very long. I could darn near guarantee that they are hard at work fixing the critical issues. Balance changes and additions will take time to sort out and certainly will not occur in the first couple weeks of a games release.
Comments
<a href="http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/11/03/how-natural-selection-2-was-saved-and-made-by-fans/" target="_blank">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/11/03...d-made-by-fans/</a>
I was imagining UWE to be more like Riot. Open, reasonable, frank, great mediators and generally awesome. This forum is in danger of becoming really toxic without some leadership. Where's our commander!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
clearly you weren't here at the beginning of LoL, i can tell you there was absolutly no communications, ninja patchs and 12 hours straight downtimes everyweek and plenty of other crappy stuff. UWE have been making vids and regulary posting stuff on what they're doing/what they're working, just give them some time.
they're good, i heard they made ns2
they're good, i heard they made ns2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS2...like we care about that ;)
I dont actually expect UWE to have anything like the presence they did during the Beta...that doesn't mean I dont believe they are reading and taking note.
I know they are quietly lurking in the forums plotting what to change next and how to try to bring some of the fun back to aliens (they have said they want fun over 50:50 win rates).
Just because they are quiet doesn't mean they dont love us anymore...just means they are busying coding and dreaming up fun stuff (or drinking...or all three things).
I think we all know there is some cool stuff that we got told "feature locked wont try that until post 1.0 " that they could be working on...lets hope they are.
Aliens spend the majority of most games with LESS rt's and LESS tech points than marines.
Marines have teleportation between points in the map AND sprint.
Marines are able to fortify any area on the map with armouries.
Crags require to ALWAYS be connected to a hive by cyst chains and heal pathetically badly.
What game are you playing sir?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not when I'm comming aliens. We pretty much always grab the whole map, leaving the marines 1-3 resource nodes and 1 tech point.
Granted I'm new (didn't start playing until launch day), and I've just been playing on random public servers.
My most exciting discovery so far that I've seen very few commanders use: those upgraded whips :-D Just walk them into an empty room, and it all dies!
No they arn't...
Aliens spend the majority of most games with LESS rt's and LESS tech points than marines.
Marines have teleportation between points in the map AND sprint.
Marines are able to fortify any area on the map with armouries.
Crags require to ALWAYS be connected to a hive by cyst chains and heal pathetically badly.
What game are you playing sir?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We're talking about games that aliens lose within the first 15 minutes?
As a marine you constantly feel like you're walking into a dangerous area. As aliens you constantly feel like you're hunting down jerks on your turf.
You're not wrong, but we're talking about different things.
Map control is not the ability to determine where your next attack will be, or ensuring that that attack will be stronger than the defense, map control is only semi related to the ability to move fast. Map control is not how far your structures are spread across the map, or how many structures you have on the map, or even the ability to choose offensive positions for structure placement on the map. The team with less map control usually has to take the forward positions, otherwise their attacking army isn't mobile enough to defend their newly taken base. Mutalisks are weaker and slower than stimmed marines in starcraft, they still grant far more map control because they don't have to follow the rules of where walls are, they don't have to follow fixed attack and retreat paths, and at any given time they grant their user more vision than marines because they never have a cliff they can't see up. If your opponent has Mutalisks you must respond to their ability to just show up anywhere and start hurting you. You can't just freely attack ignoring that possibility.
The same is true for NS. It doesn't matter if you can phase across the map in a moments notice. If the aliens do not know EXACTLY where your phase gate is they are bad. If the aliens don't anticipate and identify the movements of your marines they are bad. On the other side you usually identify the location of a skulk when your powernode begins to die, you usually identify where a fade is by something important to you being attacked. In the very late game if the marines go heavily for jetpacks and the aliens go heavily for onos, I have seen the tables turn in that case. But even then, when an alien lifeform dies they respawn as a fast first responder unit. They never lose map control to the same degree marines start without map control. Marines dictate in NS2 where battle lines will be drawn, because they are strong and aliens can't afford to let them move freely, but aliens dictate where res is traded. Aliens always have the option of just refusing to fight where the marines want to and sacrificing a hive while they take out a marine tech node instead. Marines can never really choose to base trade, they can only respond to the aliens choice. It takes too much effort to establish a forward position near a base you want to take and the smash it down as marines.
<a href="http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/6730/what-does-it-mean-to-have-map-control" target="_blank">http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/...ave-map-control</a>
This might seem like a negligable advantage. Aliens can't move around the map faster than a marine team with 2 established bases, they can't ever fight a prepared marine army, they are constantly being pressured by pushes that they can't cost effectively defeat. How can aliens have any advantage at all? THAT is exactly how map control works. And it is an advantage. It is a VERY POWERFUL advantage.
In starcraft 2, zerg players have always been in the position where, if both players are playing well, zerg must defend MORE space on the map, and they NEVER have an army that can cost effectively defeat their opponents army in open combat. Yet, despite this, Zerg players have recently been winning the most prestigious tournaments in the world. They have consistently been considered a very competitive race, although they are never able to allow the opponent to determine when and where the fight occurs. The simple reality is that they are forced to use their ability to show up unannounced where their opponents don't want them to offset the opponents constant ability to just outright kill their army. Zergs whittle down the opponent all game until the tides finally turn and they can win a picketed battle because the opponent has constantly had to invest in rebuilding, invest in bad angles of defense, invest in fights they really didn't want to participate in in that position. Just because zergs have slightly more map awareness with their overlords, a couple all purpose locational harassment units (that are very weak in direct combat) and a slightly higher average army movement speed. On any given place in the map an opponent must fear that a dozen zerglings might be there at any time. Zerg's must fear drops as well, but there are times when drops are unwise, positions were drops won't work, angles drops cannot come from. Zerg have map control and they consistently win games at the highest level because of it.
In NS2 aliens DO have map control. It is a real thing, it is a real advantage, it is important, and it does allow aliens to consistently win games.
Stop trying to solo then and work with your team...? This is a team game... why you're rushing into 11 Marines as an Onos is beyond me. If you're going to jump the Marine count from 7 to 11, it's only fair that you give that lone Onos a friend or two. The fact that 75 pres can go bye bye that easily sucks, but Exosuits have the same problem. This problem is rooted in the Onos being exponentially more powerful than the other Alien life forms(and thus really needed for a late game alien push) while Marines are still quite effective outside of an Exosuit and don't 100% need them for a push.
Even spending $40 two years ago we were still kept in the dark about loads of stuff that was dropped on our laps at release day.
Apparently there is a mystic portal to the devs where by if you email charlie he will actually respond to you and apparently take all of your criticism on board. I was tempted to email him my balance list... but I don't see the point.
At the end of the day they are a company... they have "delivered" our product now and they could close down this forum in the next 5 mins and we could never hear from them again... Would be totally legit.. they wont do it but why should we expect anymore than that?
Honest to god it just makes me not want to work in the games industry even more... Having finished my degree companies like UWE and Valve looked like the perfect job... the utopia of the games industry... Meh... lol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With your attitude, as an IT Manager and Developer I would never higher you. If you were to snow me in an interview I guarantee that you would not last long.
I have been seeing less and less success hiring recent tech grads and it makes me sad.
A word to the wise and to those who pay attention...
UWE has always valued their base, you don't have to think very hard or very long to understand this. If you think that they are just sitting around choosing to ignore everyone's CRITICISM and complaints then you have not been around for very long. I could darn near guarantee that they are hard at work fixing the critical issues. Balance changes and additions will take time to sort out and certainly will not occur in the first couple weeks of a games release.